Author Topic: Jazz (0-4) at Celtics (0-4) Game 5 11/6  (Read 64301 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: Jazz (0-4) at Celtics (0-4) Game 5 11/6
« Reply #450 on: November 07, 2013, 12:04:07 PM »

Offline Yoki_IsTheName

  • Ed Macauley
  • ***********
  • Posts: 11134
  • Tommy Points: 1304
  • I'm a Paul Heyman guy.
My grade for this game.  As always, our three objectives are #1 - hard-fought losses.  #2 - Develop the youngs.  #3 - Showcase the overpaid vets.

#1 - We almost pulled off the tank late, but ultimately let this one get away from us.   Our first win of the season.  Fail.

#2 - Great games out of Sully and Oly.  Bradley was his typical "meh" self.  Vitor's worse game.   Overall this was a good one.  CHECK.

#3 - Bass 20 points.  Wallace 9 and 9.  Lee had an effective 5 minutes.  I'll give this a CHECK.

Overall score:  C-    Our worst outing this year.  I understand it was vs the worst team in the league, but we can't make a habit out of winning.  Hopefully the Celtics right the ship next outing vs Orlando.  We just need to get through this stretch... softest opening schedule in the league.  It's been difficult to tank under these optimal conditions.   Luckily we have some quality teams on the horizon.

This is what is striking me...

So we're supposed to not have a winning habit. Okay, so if this "we should go for losses" plan works and we get the number 1 pick, guess what, that supposed superstar comes to a team who doesn't know how to win, if he even turns into a superstar. And that's another thing.


And then we are just going to waste his talents and will rebuild again in the next 8 years because his supporting cast are perennial losers who never learned how win, because this crazy tank job prevented them to.

Sorry, I'd rather have a team who's hungry for wins. I'd rather have a team that will not accept losing and will battle it out every night for the W, in turn giving them valuable experience and development and also builds character. Give me that and the mid round pick that comes with it instead of that precious #1 overall pick and the repercussion of not having a habit of winning.



2019 CStrong Historical Draft 2000s OKC Thunder.
PG: Jrue Holiday / Isaiah Thomas / Larry Hughes
SG: Paul George / Aaron McKie / Bradley Beal
SF: Paul Pierce / Tayshaun Prince / Brian Scalabrine
PF: LaMarcus Aldridge / Shareef Abdur-Raheem / Ben Simmons
C: Jermaine O'neal / Ben Wallace

Re: Jazz (0-4) at Celtics (0-4) Game 5 11/6
« Reply #451 on: November 07, 2013, 12:30:53 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 36776
  • Tommy Points: 2961
Stevens and team aren't trying to lose. 

They are allowed to win ,  if they can,  DA has left the situation such that winning many games is highly unlikely .

DA also has imput to pull the trigger on the Celtics success via return of Rondo.

I look. To see what attitude / inspirational impact this win has on the team.

It is very possible they get their first road win tommorrow .Over a Magic team overlooking the Celtics as a push over.



Re: Jazz (0-4) at Celtics (0-4) Game 5 11/6
« Reply #452 on: November 07, 2013, 12:55:16 PM »

Offline More Banners

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3845
  • Tommy Points: 257
Got to watch this one in person from the nosebleed seats of 330 row 15.  That's the top.

Jeff Green spent a lot of time on the weak side standing around.  Not sure what play that is, but HELLO, isn't he supposed to be the guy that can score?  He looked bored over there, too.  Can't blame him.

The starters simply sucked.  Turned around when Wallace came in.  He and Green seem to be developing some chemistry, I think, or at least something resembling a "together" thing.

Game was mostly individual scoring efforts/moves.  HAHA and Bass was top scorer.  Dude can't pass.

That Wallace/Green/Bradley/Sully/Olynyk group could cover the floor pretty quickly, and almost everyone looked to pass.  Best ball movement of the night, and ran up the score after the early hole.

And I pretty much think that should be the starting lineup until Rondo gets back, and just go with it.  Sub Bradley in early to keep either Green or Wallace on the floor.

Bass looks aggressive, along with Bradley, Wallace, Sully, and KO.  So he looked good in that sense.

Crawford can't see past his own defender, and consequently is of no help at all at PG.

Since we didn't play the most effective lineup (per the eye test) very much, I'd say we're not trying to win very much.

Re: Jazz (0-4) at Celtics (0-4) Game 5 11/6
« Reply #453 on: November 07, 2013, 02:13:25 PM »

Offline DesertDweller

  • Jaylen Brown
  • Posts: 623
  • Tommy Points: 92
I am getting tired real quick at the "TANKERS" mentality on this board. they want you to believe that Danny Ainge and Brad Stevens are in league together in some kind of conspiracy to intentionally lose games. If you believe in fairy tales then just keep sipping that kool aid!!!
When this coach figures out who plays best with who, this team will win some games.  do you realize how many new people this guy has got to look at let alone thinking of who will fit the best with Rondo when he returns???
Relax, it will all come together sooner than you think.

Re: Jazz (0-4) at Celtics (0-4) Game 5 11/6
« Reply #454 on: November 07, 2013, 03:19:57 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

  • Robert Parish
  • *********************
  • Posts: 21238
  • Tommy Points: 2016
My grade for this game.  As always, our three objectives are #1 - hard-fought losses.  #2 - Develop the youngs.  #3 - Showcase the overpaid vets.

#1 - We almost pulled off the tank late, but ultimately let this one get away from us.   Our first win of the season.  Fail.

#2 - Great games out of Sully and Oly.  Bradley was his typical "meh" self.  Vitor's worse game.   Overall this was a good one.  CHECK.

#3 - Bass 20 points.  Wallace 9 and 9.  Lee had an effective 5 minutes.  I'll give this a CHECK.

Overall score:  C-    Our worst outing this year.  I understand it was vs the worst team in the league, but we can't make a habit out of winning.  Hopefully the Celtics right the ship next outing vs Orlando.  We just need to get through this stretch... softest opening schedule in the league.  It's been difficult to tank under these optimal conditions.   Luckily we have some quality teams on the horizon.

This is what is striking me...

So we're supposed to not have a winning habit. Okay, so if this "we should go for losses" plan works and we get the number 1 pick, guess what, that supposed superstar comes to a team who doesn't know how to win, if he even turns into a superstar. And that's another thing.


And then we are just going to waste his talents and will rebuild again in the next 8 years because his supporting cast are perennial losers who never learned how win, because this crazy tank job prevented them to.

Sorry, I'd rather have a team who's hungry for wins. I'd rather have a team that will not accept losing and will battle it out every night for the W, in turn giving them valuable experience and development and also builds character. Give me that and the mid round pick that comes with it instead of that precious #1 overall pick and the repercussion of not having a habit of winning.
Complete nonsense.  Cavs had a horrible losing culture when LeBron arrived and he eventually took them to the Finals.  Sonics were activately trying to lose games during Durant's rookie year and they eventually made the Finals.  Celtics tanked it up Rondo's rookie season and yet Rondo/Perk had no issue contributing to a champion the following year.

Losing this year is A-Ok and I'm actively in support of tanking.  Additionally... Maybe 2 or 3 players on this squad will still be Celtics the next time they make the playoffs.  It literally doesn't matter.  We don't have much to gain from winning right now.  The moderately talented youngs will get their reps in regardless.  Our foundation will be built on guys who haven't been drafted yet. 

This is a one year thing.  I have no doubt Ainge will start to make moves to make us competitive next year.  In the short term, our only goals are to #1 - Lose Close Games.  #2 - Develop the youngs.  #3 - Showcase the overpaid vets

We'll take a couple wins every once in a while, but we're best off losing as much as possible this season.

Re: Jazz (0-4) at Celtics (0-4) Game 5 11/6
« Reply #455 on: November 07, 2013, 03:37:21 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

  • Robert Parish
  • *********************
  • Posts: 21238
  • Tommy Points: 2016
My grade for this game.  As always, our three objectives are #1 - hard-fought losses.  #2 - Develop the youngs.  #3 - Showcase the overpaid vets.

#1 - We almost pulled off the tank late, but ultimately let this one get away from us.   Our first win of the season.  Fail.

#2 - Great games out of Sully and Oly.  Bradley was his typical "meh" self.  Vitor's worse game.   Overall this was a good one.  CHECK.

#3 - Bass 20 points.  Wallace 9 and 9.  Lee had an effective 5 minutes.  I'll give this a CHECK.

Overall score:  C-    Our worst outing this year.  I understand it was vs the worst team in the league, but we can't make a habit out of winning.  Hopefully the Celtics right the ship next outing vs Orlando.  We just need to get through this stretch... softest opening schedule in the league.  It's been difficult to tank under these optimal conditions.   Luckily we have some quality teams on the horizon.

This is what is striking me...

So we're supposed to not have a winning habit. Okay, so if this "we should go for losses" plan works and we get the number 1 pick, guess what, that supposed superstar comes to a team who doesn't know how to win, if he even turns into a superstar. And that's another thing.


And then we are just going to waste his talents and will rebuild again in the next 8 years because his supporting cast are perennial losers who never learned how win, because this crazy tank job prevented them to.

Sorry, I'd rather have a team who's hungry for wins. I'd rather have a team that will not accept losing and will battle it out every night for the W, in turn giving them valuable experience and development and also builds character. Give me that and the mid round pick that comes with it instead of that precious #1 overall pick and the repercussion of not having a habit of winning.
Complete nonsense.  Cavs had a horrible losing culture when LeBron arrived and he eventually took them to the Finals.  Sonics were activately trying to lose games during Durant's rookie year and they eventually made the Finals.  Celtics tanked it up Rondo's rookie season and yet Rondo/Perk had no issue contributing to a champion the following year.

Losing this year is A-Ok and I'm actively in support of tanking.  Additionally... Maybe 2 or 3 players on this squad will still be Celtics the next time they make the playoffs.  It literally doesn't matter.  We don't have much to gain from winning right now.  The moderately talented youngs will get their reps in regardless.  Our foundation will be built on guys who haven't been drafted yet. 

This is a one year thing.  I have no doubt Ainge will start to make moves to make us competitive next year.  In the short term, our only goals are to #1 - Lose Close Games.  #2 - Develop the youngs.  #3 - Showcase the overpaid vets

We'll take a couple wins every once in a while, but we're best off losing as much as possible this season.

You want more?  Boston finished with the 4th worst record in 1969-70... landed Dave Cowens for their trouble.  Eastern Conference Finals during Cowens' second year... eventually two championships.

Celtics win 28 games in 1978-79.  Larry BIrd joins the team the next season and they win 61 games.

Spurs win 20 games in 1996-97.  Champions within two years.

Winning games this season will have little impact on the future of our Celtic players.  If you add a Superstar through the draft, make some trades and Rondo comes back next season, there will be no hold-over from our "losing culture".   

Re: Jazz (0-4) at Celtics (0-4) Game 5 11/6
« Reply #456 on: November 07, 2013, 04:08:29 PM »

Offline More Banners

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3845
  • Tommy Points: 257
I am getting tired real quick at the "TANKERS" mentality on this board. they want you to believe that Danny Ainge and Brad Stevens are in league together in some kind of conspiracy to intentionally lose games. If you believe in fairy tales then just keep sipping that kool aid!!!
When this coach figures out who plays best with who, this team will win some games.  do you realize how many new people this guy has got to look at let alone thinking of who will fit the best with Rondo when he returns???
Relax, it will all come together sooner than you think.

The thing is, Jordan Crawford is starting, and Gerald Wallace, who had arguable the strongest preseason of any player and also is arguably one of the best players all-around on the team right now, and surely one of its best defenders by far, is coming off the bench.

None of the players that started could pass except for KO with the starting lineup against Utah.  Jeff Green was set up on the weak side 3pt line (not in the corner where he's good, BTW) for more than half of the possessions. 

I don't think they're really trying to lose on purpose, but they sure as heck aren't trying to win.

Sully and KO are looking good together, and I think Green and Wallace are, too.  Start them all, and hope their mutual willingness to make the extra pass (as opposed to Bass or Crawford) make up for Bradley's lack of playmaking.  The defense will be as good as we can come up with, most likely. 

Let Lee, Bass, and VITOR! come off the bench until Bradley takes Lee's spot when Rondo comes back.

Hump has no real use on this squad, and he hasn't earned minutes ahead of the other guys. Sucks for him. Not sure why he gets minutes.  Sit, please.

Re: Jazz (0-4) at Celtics (0-4) Game 5 11/6
« Reply #457 on: November 07, 2013, 05:53:54 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

  • NCE
  • Johnny Most
  • ********************
  • Posts: 20000
  • Tommy Points: 1323
Quote
Boston finished with the 4th worst record in 1969-70... landed Dave Cowens for their trouble.  Eastern Conference Finals during Cowens' second year... eventually two championships.

I do think we have some nice complimentary players.  Green and Wallace are solid.   KO and Sully are solid big men and Bradley is decent guard.   Rondo is a force multiplier who can change games.   But none of these guys are true superstars,  RR comes closest, but he is no superstar.   Add one good star and I like our chances.  If we get lucky in the draft( and I am not talking a LeBron but a good solid star not superstar, I wouldn't mind the superstar though) and one solid free agent and all the sudden we are not that bad anymore.   The complimentary players are here folks we just need an alpha dog.

Re: Jazz (0-4) at Celtics (0-4) Game 5 11/6
« Reply #458 on: November 07, 2013, 08:03:14 PM »

Offline Yoki_IsTheName

  • Ed Macauley
  • ***********
  • Posts: 11134
  • Tommy Points: 1304
  • I'm a Paul Heyman guy.
My grade for this game.  As always, our three objectives are #1 - hard-fought losses.  #2 - Develop the youngs.  #3 - Showcase the overpaid vets.

#1 - We almost pulled off the tank late, but ultimately let this one get away from us.   Our first win of the season.  Fail.

#2 - Great games out of Sully and Oly.  Bradley was his typical "meh" self.  Vitor's worse game.   Overall this was a good one.  CHECK.

#3 - Bass 20 points.  Wallace 9 and 9.  Lee had an effective 5 minutes.  I'll give this a CHECK.

Overall score:  C-    Our worst outing this year.  I understand it was vs the worst team in the league, but we can't make a habit out of winning.  Hopefully the Celtics right the ship next outing vs Orlando.  We just need to get through this stretch... softest opening schedule in the league.  It's been difficult to tank under these optimal conditions.   Luckily we have some quality teams on the horizon.

This is what is striking me...

So we're supposed to not have a winning habit. Okay, so if this "we should go for losses" plan works and we get the number 1 pick, guess what, that supposed superstar comes to a team who doesn't know how to win, if he even turns into a superstar. And that's another thing.


And then we are just going to waste his talents and will rebuild again in the next 8 years because his supporting cast are perennial losers who never learned how win, because this crazy tank job prevented them to.

Sorry, I'd rather have a team who's hungry for wins. I'd rather have a team that will not accept losing and will battle it out every night for the W, in turn giving them valuable experience and development and also builds character. Give me that and the mid round pick that comes with it instead of that precious #1 overall pick and the repercussion of not having a habit of winning.
Complete nonsense.  Cavs had a horrible losing culture when LeBron arrived and he eventually took them to the Finals.  Sonics were activately trying to lose games during Durant's rookie year and they eventually made the Finals.  Celtics tanked it up Rondo's rookie season and yet Rondo/Perk had no issue contributing to a champion the following year.

Losing this year is A-Ok and I'm actively in support of tanking.  Additionally... Maybe 2 or 3 players on this squad will still be Celtics the next time they make the playoffs.  It literally doesn't matter.  We don't have much to gain from winning right now.  The moderately talented youngs will get their reps in regardless.  Our foundation will be built on guys who haven't been drafted yet. 

This is a one year thing.  I have no doubt Ainge will start to make moves to make us competitive next year.  In the short term, our only goals are to #1 - Lose Close Games.  #2 - Develop the youngs.  #3 - Showcase the overpaid vets

We'll take a couple wins every once in a while, but we're best off losing as much as possible this season.

LeBron wasted 3 or 4 years IIRC of his career by being surrounded by talented players who has no winning mentality to the point that his Cleveland team had to overpay for just solid and washed up players just to contend. And he eventually left. Dwight did the same, technically. Youre probably going to see the same with John Wall. Cane in with immense talent but in a losing culture and look.

You underestimate the value of winning culture. Even if its just one season of losing, it still losing. Its not being competitive enough and accepting mediocity instead of beings p---ed and working hard the next game to get a win. That sets a bad example for this superstat you want picked. If he's surrounded by teammates who dont care about winning, he'll either not care about it as well or will have to mature faster and in turn will have a ton of pressure to succeed.

Look at Duncan when he landed with the Spurs. They were winning until the year when Robinson got injured and they landed him. He came in to a team whos expectations ar nothing but winning, and he was taught early in his career that theres no other way. Same qith Derrick Rose. Now both of them are obsessed with winning.

Then loom at Blake Griffin and imagine what his career with be without Chris Paul.

I get it, we will have a very good shot of being good next year with a top pick. But we can also rebuild by having a team who's hungry for wins. In turn the new players coming in will be expected to give notjing by great effort and not accept losing as an option.

You can have all the talent in the world, but without a womning mentality, your team will end up like Sacramento. I would rather be Indiana. A team that was built without a top 5 pick butws run by a winner and demands nothing but. Missed the playoffs but tried the hardest until eventually got really good because the guys coming In sees the value of winning.

I get the point. Were not good enough to win anything right now, so for now losing can be a bitter pill to swallow. But you dont encourage it, you try to win asuch as you can and build a habit of it despite the lack of talent. It builds character and a competitive mentality. Your notio. Is for our players to accept losing and be okay with it, well, yoyre superstar that you want to draft next year wi be the same or worse, will leave because he's surrounded by losers and are fine with it.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2013, 08:12:10 PM by Yoki_IsTheName »
2019 CStrong Historical Draft 2000s OKC Thunder.
PG: Jrue Holiday / Isaiah Thomas / Larry Hughes
SG: Paul George / Aaron McKie / Bradley Beal
SF: Paul Pierce / Tayshaun Prince / Brian Scalabrine
PF: LaMarcus Aldridge / Shareef Abdur-Raheem / Ben Simmons
C: Jermaine O'neal / Ben Wallace