Author Topic: Webber in the Hall of Fame?  (Read 19374 times)

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Re: Webber in the Hall of Fame?
« Reply #60 on: September 21, 2013, 11:36:51 AM »

Offline BballTim

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Webber is somewhat close to KG if KG retired after minnesota

  Sure, if KG played defense like Webber.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2013, 03:42:20 PM by BballTim »

Re: Webber in the Hall of Fame?
« Reply #61 on: September 21, 2013, 12:17:47 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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Webber had 6 seasons of at least 20 points, 10 rebounds, and 4 assists.  3 more of at least 20, 9 and 3.4.  A bunch of other really good statistical seasons.  All of this while being fairly consistently injured.  He took a number of pretty sub par teams to the playoffs.  He is basically Kevin Garnett without the trade to Boston or a better version of Chris Bosh without Miami. 

He is also a better player than a number of players in the HOF and there aren't that many that are eligible that aren't in that are better than him (I can't actually think of one).  I think he probably gets in someday, but not on the first ballot, especially if his time at Michigan is counted.

That's true, but that's a very tricky idea and precedent to set.
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Re: Webber in the Hall of Fame?
« Reply #62 on: September 21, 2013, 12:55:23 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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KG's peak at Minnesota was much better than Webber's.

Similar scoring (KG was more efficient there though too) and passing, much better defense and rebounding. Makes a big difference when your peak is MVP and if your peak was merely all-nba.

Re: Webber in the Hall of Fame?
« Reply #63 on: September 21, 2013, 01:37:17 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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KG's peak at Minnesota was much better than Webber's.

Similar scoring (KG was more efficient there though too) and passing, much better defense and rebounding. Makes a big difference when your peak is MVP and if your peak was merely all-nba.

Agreed, but I do think Webber was a better passer and ballhandler than KG.

Although I guess that depends on how much you value flashy passing and handles.
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Re: Webber in the Hall of Fame?
« Reply #64 on: September 21, 2013, 02:11:57 PM »

Offline Vox_Populi

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Garnett's had a couple of flashy passes.

Re: Webber in the Hall of Fame?
« Reply #65 on: September 21, 2013, 02:20:46 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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Totally. Not trying to denigrate KG at all.

But KG couldn't run the break like C-Webb.
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Re: Webber in the Hall of Fame?
« Reply #66 on: September 21, 2013, 02:55:24 PM »

Offline Vox_Populi

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Totally. Not trying to denigrate KG at all.

But KG couldn't run the break like C-Webb.
Can't argue with that.

Re: Webber in the Hall of Fame?
« Reply #67 on: September 21, 2013, 04:21:37 PM »

Offline Moranis

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KG's peak at Minnesota was much better than Webber's.

Similar scoring (KG was more efficient there though too) and passing, much better defense and rebounding. Makes a big difference when your peak is MVP and if your peak was merely all-nba.
much better is a stretch.  Webber was a better and more varied offensive player.  Much higher peak ppg, more post moves, and a longer range on the jump shot.  Webber was a much better ball handler and they were both excellent passers (Webber actually has a better career AST%).  KG was obviously a better rebounder (though some of that is who they played with and Webber was actually a better offensive rebounder) and a significantly better defensive player overall (though Webber was a pretty good shot blocker and his man defense was always underrated).  KG was/is better but their peaks aren't so far off that a comparison is silly.
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Re: Webber in the Hall of Fame?
« Reply #68 on: September 21, 2013, 04:35:25 PM »

Offline Boris Badenov

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Hypothetical: swap KG onto those Sac teams and Webber onto Minny.

How do things unfold?

Re: Webber in the Hall of Fame?
« Reply #69 on: September 21, 2013, 04:50:38 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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KG's peak at Minnesota was much better than Webber's.

Similar scoring (KG was more efficient there though too) and passing, much better defense and rebounding. Makes a big difference when your peak is MVP and if your peak was merely all-nba.
much better is a stretch.  Webber was a better and more varied offensive player.  Much higher peak ppg, more post moves, and a longer range on the jump shot.  Webber was a much better ball handler and they were both excellent passers (Webber actually has a better career AST%).  KG was obviously a better rebounder (though some of that is who they played with and Webber was actually a better offensive rebounder) and a significantly better defensive player overall (though Webber was a pretty good shot blocker and his man defense was always underrated).  KG was/is better but their peaks aren't so far off that a comparison is silly.
Not a stretch at all. The PPG difference is a few points which is mostly explained by a much faster pace and slightly higher usage by Webber. Meanwhile KG had superior efficiency at their best, gave him a higher ORTG, PER, ARPM, win shares, every way you can measure it.

KG had a higher assist percentage at their peaks too, his career is lower because he's still playing as an offensive role player. Also KG was a better offensive rebounder at their peaks, Webber had right around 7 during his KG was at around 9. KG has just played longer his offensive rebounding declined as he aged and played more seasons and minutes as an older player (plus coaching wise Doc had him bail on it to play D).

Webber had a better low post game, but KG had his killer face up game in the high post and an underrated post game himself.

So yeah KG had a much better peak that was also longer (I was really sad for Webber when he blew his knee right in the middle of his), I think the difference between MVP caliber peak and an all-nba talent is significant one.

Re: Webber in the Hall of Fame?
« Reply #70 on: September 21, 2013, 10:56:04 PM »

Offline moiso

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Hypothetical: swap KG onto those Sac teams and Webber onto Minny.

How do things unfold?
I think the Kings may have been champions a couple times with KG.  I don't think much would have changed with Webber on the Wolves.

Re: Webber in the Hall of Fame?
« Reply #71 on: September 21, 2013, 11:24:36 PM »

Offline Boris Badenov

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Hypothetical: swap KG onto those Sac teams and Webber onto Minny.

How do things unfold?
I think the Kings may have been champions a couple times with KG.  I don't think much would have changed with Webber on the Wolves.

Agreed. Those Kings teams would have benefited hugely from having someone with a tougher mental attitude. And KG never had shot makers like Peja and Bibby around him.

Re: Webber in the Hall of Fame?
« Reply #72 on: September 21, 2013, 11:28:10 PM »

Offline Donoghus

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Hypothetical: swap KG onto those Sac teams and Webber onto Minny.

How do things unfold?
I think the Kings may have been champions a couple times with KG.  I don't think much would have changed with Webber on the Wolves.

Would've had a title in '02. Other than that, not sure. West was so good during that period.


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Re: Webber in the Hall of Fame?
« Reply #73 on: September 21, 2013, 11:34:52 PM »

Offline moiso

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Hypothetical: swap KG onto those Sac teams and Webber onto Minny.

How do things unfold?
I think the Kings may have been champions a couple times with KG.  I don't think much would have changed with Webber on the Wolves.

Would've had a title in '02. Other than that, not sure. West was so good during that period.
But KG is a "culture changer" as they say.  Webber was along for the flashy ride, and he was awesome for a couple of years.  I just think the Kings would have had a whole different attitude and some extra nastiness and accountability if KG were on that team.