Author Topic: 2013 CB Draft Finals: Minnesota(1) vs Cleveland(3)  (Read 57946 times)

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Re: 2013 CB Draft Finals: Minnesota(1) vs Cleveland(3)
« Reply #60 on: September 12, 2013, 12:39:40 PM »

Offline Lucky17

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However, judging from the playoffs so far, not many other people do. LeBron is turning into a "win button" in these drafts, regardless of the personnel around him. I simply can't buy Monta Ellis riding shotgun on a LeBron train trying to reach Titletown.

Agreed. 

Based upon a lot of the votes, you would think that Lebron was invincible.  He's not.  Heck, he came a couple of bricked FTs away from losing last year, despite having Wade and Bosh next to him.

Monta Ellis is not a good player.  He has no business being the second best player on a team hoping to win.
The problem I have is that I don't think Cleveland is good enough to take advantage of that.

KG is their best player, that's not good enough. He's going to decline this coming year, and heavy minutes and playoffs are going to tire him further.

As much as KG is the heart and soul (and defensive identity) of the team, Horford is the best player. And Lawson's pretty dang good.

I rank those three (and arguably Tony Allen) as the next best players in this series, given their particular roles and how they fill them. Perhaps Ibaka ahead of Allen.

As with the WCF, there's a lamentable dearth of direct evidence as to how Avery Bradley matches up against his defensive assignment. FWIW:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=lawsoty01&p2=bradlav01

5 games sample size, and two games ought to be tossed out due to AB's lack of PT.
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Re: 2013 CB Draft Finals: Minnesota(1) vs Cleveland(3)
« Reply #61 on: September 12, 2013, 12:39:44 PM »

Offline AB_Celtic

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Nick made a point in another thread that people were underrating Landry. I just want to remind everyone how good he is.

Personally, I think he's one of the best third bigs in the league. In just 23 minutes per game last year, he put up 11 ppg on .540 shooting and .605 TS% and 6 rpg. And he plays tough defense.

As much attention as our starting lineup gets, Landry (and Crawford) can be difference makers in their own right.

Re: 2013 CB Draft Finals: Minnesota(1) vs Cleveland(3)
« Reply #62 on: September 12, 2013, 12:41:07 PM »

Offline Yoki_IsTheName

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However, judging from the playoffs so far, not many other people do. LeBron is turning into a "win button" in these drafts, regardless of the personnel around him. I simply can't buy Monta Ellis riding shotgun on a LeBron train trying to reach Titletown.

Agreed. 

Based upon a lot of the votes, you would think that Lebron was invincible.  He's not.  Heck, he came a couple of bricked FTs away from losing last year, despite having Wade and Bosh next to him.

Monta Ellis is not a good player.  He has no business being the second best player on a team hoping to win.

I doubt that he's the second best player anyway. He's the second scoring option, but certainly not the second best player. I give that to Serge Ibaka.
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Re: 2013 CB Draft Finals: Minnesota(1) vs Cleveland(3)
« Reply #63 on: September 12, 2013, 12:43:02 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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However, judging from the playoffs so far, not many other people do. LeBron is turning into a "win button" in these drafts, regardless of the personnel around him. I simply can't buy Monta Ellis riding shotgun on a LeBron train trying to reach Titletown.

Agreed. 

Based upon a lot of the votes, you would think that Lebron was invincible.  He's not.  Heck, he came a couple of bricked FTs away from losing last year, despite having Wade and Bosh next to him.

Monta Ellis is not a good player.  He has no business being the second best player on a team hoping to win.

I doubt that he's the second best player anyway. He's the second scoring option, but certainly not the second best player. I give that to Serge Ibaka.

Well, Ibaka has his own problems; look at last year's playoffs, where he was assigned too large of a role. 

But "second scoring option", then.  Teams with inefficient chuckers as their second scoring options don't win a lot of titles.



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Re: 2013 CB Draft Finals: Minnesota(1) vs Cleveland(3)
« Reply #64 on: September 12, 2013, 12:43:49 PM »

Offline Yoki_IsTheName

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Nick made a point in another thread that people were underrating Landry. I just want to remind everyone how good he is.

Personally, I think he's one of the best third bigs in the league. In just 23 minutes per game last year, he put up 11 ppg on .540 shooting and .605 TS% and 6 rpg. And he plays tough defense.

As much attention as our starting lineup gets, Landry (and Crawford) can be difference makers in their own right.

Completely forgot you have Carl Landry in your team.

I'm such a derp. He definitely makes a big impact.
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Re: 2013 CB Draft Finals: Minnesota(1) vs Cleveland(3)
« Reply #65 on: September 12, 2013, 12:43:57 PM »

Offline AB_Celtic

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5 games sample size, and two games ought to be tossed out due to AB's lack of PT.

But in the two games Bradley did play significant minutes (the last two), Lawson put up 27.5 ppg on 60% shooting (yes you read that right) and 45% 3pt shooting, with 7.5 apg and 6 rpg. That's pretty beastly.

Re: 2013 CB Draft Finals: Minnesota(1) vs Cleveland(3)
« Reply #66 on: September 12, 2013, 12:44:16 PM »

Offline Lucky17

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As much attention as our starting lineup gets, Landry (and Crawford) can be difference makers in their own right.

AB, how will you use Landry again? nick suggests that he could maybe play SF, but I've always viewed Landry as an emergency/smallball C option if he's not playing the 4.
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Re: 2013 CB Draft Finals: Minnesota(1) vs Cleveland(3)
« Reply #67 on: September 12, 2013, 12:45:00 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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5 games sample size, and two games ought to be tossed out due to AB's lack of PT.

But in the two games Bradley did play significant minutes (the last two), Lawson put up 27.5 ppg on 60% shooting (yes you read that right) and 45% 3pt shooting, with 7.5 apg and 6 rpg. That's pretty beastly.

Wow.  Small sample size, but wow.


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Re: 2013 CB Draft Finals: Minnesota(1) vs Cleveland(3)
« Reply #68 on: September 12, 2013, 12:46:03 PM »

Offline AB_Celtic

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As much attention as our starting lineup gets, Landry (and Crawford) can be difference makers in their own right.

AB, how will you use Landry again? nick suggests that he could maybe play SF, but I've always viewed Landry as an emergency/smallball C option if he's not playing the 4.

There may be select times that Landry, Horford, and Garnett are all in the game at the same time, and I think it'll work because all 3 are great jump-shooters.

But Landry's primary role is the third big. In the IP-DKC mold of Asik, Aldridge, and Millsap, we plan on Horford, Garnett, and Landry covering just about all of the minutes at the 4-5, with Wallace maybe getting a few if Minny goes small.

Re: 2013 CB Draft Finals: Minnesota(1) vs Cleveland(3)
« Reply #69 on: September 12, 2013, 12:49:56 PM »

Offline Kane3387

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However, judging from the playoffs so far, not many other people do. LeBron is turning into a "win button" in these drafts, regardless of the personnel around him. I simply can't buy Monta Ellis riding shotgun on a LeBron train trying to reach Titletown.

Agreed. 

Based upon a lot of the votes, you would think that Lebron was invincible.  He's not.  Heck, he came a couple of bricked FTs away from losing last year, despite having Wade and Bosh next to him.

Monta Ellis is not a good player.  He has no business being the second best player on a team hoping to win.

I agree


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Re: 2013 CB Draft Finals: Minnesota(1) vs Cleveland(3)
« Reply #70 on: September 12, 2013, 12:49:56 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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Agreed Roy. Which is brings up the issue I have with both teams, I didn't think they'd be the finalists.

Cleveland doesn't look to me to have that much more talent than some of the Hawks teams. Lawson for JJ and KG for Smith with a better fitting cast doesn't strike me as a title team. Especially with KG another year older.

Minnesota is very dependent on LeBron and I don't like Ibaka/Jordan as his big men.

Re: 2013 CB Draft Finals: Minnesota(1) vs Cleveland(3)
« Reply #71 on: September 12, 2013, 12:53:31 PM »

Offline Lucky17

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5 games sample size, and two games ought to be tossed out due to AB's lack of PT.

But in the two games Bradley did play significant minutes (the last two), Lawson put up 27.5 ppg on 60% shooting (yes you read that right) and 45% 3pt shooting, with 7.5 apg and 6 rpg. That's pretty beastly.

Wow.  Small sample size, but wow.

For the sake of argument, let's say Bradley does not fare well vs. Lawson, and Minnesota elects to put LeBron on Ty instead.

AB, what will you do to help Lawson run the offense?
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Re: 2013 CB Draft Finals: Minnesota(1) vs Cleveland(3)
« Reply #72 on: September 12, 2013, 12:57:58 PM »

Offline AB_Celtic

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Cleveland doesn't look to me to have that much more talent than some of the Hawks teams. Lawson for JJ and KG for Smith with a better fitting cast doesn't strike me as a title team. Especially with KG another year older.

Ty has shown he can be the primary scorer on a playoff team recently, though... a role I don't think JJ can play anymore. And KG is a huge boost over Smith because Smith's boneheadedness and inefficiency can drag his team down.

And I think you're underselling the supporting cast. We have one of the best wing defenders in the league in Tony Allen. We have a 6MOY candidate in Jamal Crawford. We have one of the best third big men in the league in Carl Landry. We have the 10th best 3pt shooting small forward in the league last year in Caron Butler, and we have another super tough defender in Gerald Wallace.

Like Roy said, the sum of the parts is greater than the parts themselves. That was my goal going into this thing with the 19th pick. I couldn't just go BPA at that stage... I needed a perfect fit of a team that would gel together in order to go far in the playoffs.

Re: 2013 CB Draft Finals: Minnesota(1) vs Cleveland(3)
« Reply #73 on: September 12, 2013, 01:03:03 PM »

Offline AB_Celtic

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5 games sample size, and two games ought to be tossed out due to AB's lack of PT.

But in the two games Bradley did play significant minutes (the last two), Lawson put up 27.5 ppg on 60% shooting (yes you read that right) and 45% 3pt shooting, with 7.5 apg and 6 rpg. That's pretty beastly.

Wow.  Small sample size, but wow.

For the sake of argument, let's say Bradley does not fare well vs. Lawson, and Minnesota elects to put LeBron on Ty instead.

AB, what will you do to help Lawson run the offense?

If this does happen, Lawson will not attempt to drive nearly as much but will instead become more of a facilitator. With LeBron on him, then 6'7" Gerald Wallace has either 6'2" Avery Bradley or 6'3" Monta Ellis covering him. Wallace might not be the offensive weapon he once was, but he can still back those guys down with ease. If this baits LeBron towards him near the rim, then Wallace (still a great passer) can hit KG, Horford, Lawson, Landry, Crawford, or Butler for a perimeter jumper. If LeBron stays camped out on the perimeter with Lawson, then whichever big man (Horford or KG) Ibaka isn't defending will collapse to the basket and have an opportunity at an easy bucket.

Re: 2013 CB Draft Finals: Minnesota(1) vs Cleveland(3)
« Reply #74 on: September 12, 2013, 01:04:17 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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Gerald Wallace didn't take advantage of Nate Robinson on him in the playoffs this year. I don't think he'll able to exploit Avery or Monta either.