Author Topic: 2013 CB Draft: Western Finals: Minnesota(1) vs Oklahoma City(2)  (Read 33226 times)

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Re: 2013 CB Draft: Western Finals: Minnesota(1) vs Oklahoma City(2)
« Reply #30 on: September 11, 2013, 06:58:30 PM »

Offline Lucky17

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It is very different personnel. A different type of defense OKC will be facing. A different series.

Conceded. OKC doesn't have the floor-spacing that Hedo and Lewis provided that Magic team. But it does have an offensive/creative talent in Rose that is superior to any of those other Magic players. And, it has superior team defense.

I mainly wanted to cite an actual precedent for a LeBron team (at 66-16, the presumptive favorite that season) losing a playoff series despite some truly gaudy numbers he put up.
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Re: 2013 CB Draft: Western Finals: Minnesota(1) vs Oklahoma City(2)
« Reply #31 on: September 11, 2013, 07:06:32 PM »

fitzhickey

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I'm leaning towards OKC in this one
No way can Ibaka/Jordan stop Dwight
I personally think they are overrated on defense.
OKC in 7 with Rose taking over in the last game to win it all.

Re: 2013 CB Draft: Western Finals: Minnesota(1) vs Oklahoma City(2)
« Reply #32 on: September 11, 2013, 07:06:57 PM »

Offline Who

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It is very different personnel. A different type of defense OKC will be facing. A different series.

Conceded. OKC doesn't have the floor-spacing that Hedo and Lewis provided that Magic team. But it does have an offensive/creative talent in Rose that is superior to any of those other Magic players. And, it has superior team defense.

I mainly wanted to cite an actual precedent for a LeBron team (at 66-16, the presumptive favorite that season) losing a playoff series despite some truly gaudy numbers he put up.

I think LeBron has shown what he can do against Derrick Rose in the playoffs two years ago.

Took the MVP out -- 23ppg on 35% FG% and 23% 3FG% and almost 4 turnovers a game for Derrick Rose. With LeBron routinely shutting Rose down late in games. Chalmers played quite a few minutes against Rose in that series too. Plus there is Avery Bradley to boot.

Re: 2013 CB Draft: Western Finals: Minnesota(1) vs Oklahoma City(2)
« Reply #33 on: September 11, 2013, 07:10:41 PM »

Offline Who

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I think this one is just a really, really uncomfortable matchup for OKC. A bad luck sort of situation. Easily would've beaten either team from the East. This is sort of the unofficial Finals for me.

Right from start I felt whoever wins the West wins the CB League. I had my top 4 teams in the West as the top 4 teams league-wide. Lakers, Warriors, Thunder and Wolves. Oddly enough I thought the Wolves were the weakest of the four. I still don't understand why so many took them over GSW.

I think this one is just a really good matchup for Minnesota. They have the defensive versatility to do things here that cause OKC problems and OKC's lack of firepower at the forward slots allows Minny to go small comfortably (and for long minutes) to get the extra firepower Minny need. A friendly matchup for Minny. Plays into their strengths. 

Re: 2013 CB Draft: Western Finals: Minnesota(1) vs Oklahoma City(2)
« Reply #34 on: September 11, 2013, 07:17:03 PM »

Offline McHales Pits

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Starting Lineup

1 - Ellis
2 - Bradley
3 - James
4 - Ibaka
5 - Davis

Regarding Minnesota on Offense
This matchup is all about LeBron exploiting the opponents defense. Davis has been inserted in the lineup to provide two bigs capable of running the pick game with LeBron. They are both capable of spotting up on the baseline to pull Howard and Gibson away from the hoop to open up slashing lanes for James and Ellis and can make the defense pay with efficient spot up mid-range shooting. They can also run the pick and pop game, too. The wing defense on OKC will not provide sufficient opposition to LeBron having his way.

Regarding Minnesota on Defense
Similar to my previous matchup, I plan on allowing Bradley to ravage Rose full-court while Ellis lurks off the ball looking to pick off passing lanes. Someone else had mentioned the possibility of James guarding Rose - an idea I thought of using on occasions (you stole my thunder). When Bradley comes out (and Korver/Chalmers/Battier and their 3-PT range subs in), James will take on Rose. He can match him athletically and has elite size to disrupt Rose from scoring efficiently. Davis has proven capable of making life difficult for Howard in the past given his strength and low center of gravity. Ibaka can hang close to offer double teams or weak side help defense if Davis needs it and not worry too much about Gibson making us pay. The Ibaka-Davis defensive duo actually complements each other well. Ibaka is an athletic shot blocker and Davis is stout, takes charges, and has good hands around the rim for steals. Jordan can come in provide supplemental defense when Davis needs to rest.

Regarding OKC on Offense
The OKC 2-4 positions and bench don't have the firepower to will this team to victory so I hope to make life extremely difficult on Rose and Howard to put the onus on the supplemental cast to win it. Rose and Howard work well as a pick and roll team. Since neither's outside shot is a strength - I am willing to go around the screen to prevent Rose from getting to the rim. My big man will stick with Howard to body him and not allow a clear lane to to basket.

Regarding OKC on Defense
The defensive strength of this team are the two shot blockers protecting the paint. Ibaka and Davis can spot up on the baseline and hit mid-range jumpers efficiently. They will have to pick their poison and guard the paint and allow LeBron/Monta to drive and dish for the open jumper or stick with their man and allow slashing lanes to the hoop.

« Last Edit: September 11, 2013, 07:23:09 PM by McHales Pits »
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Re: 2013 CB Draft: Western Finals: Minnesota(1) vs Oklahoma City(2)
« Reply #35 on: September 11, 2013, 07:19:56 PM »

Online Roy H.

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I'm leaning towards OKC in this one
No way can Ibaka/Jordan stop Dwight

I just think that Howard is overrated offensively.  He rarely takes over games.  His value is more as a pretty good (but non-dominant) scorer who is also an elite defender and rebounder.


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Re: 2013 CB Draft: Western Finals: Minnesota(1) vs Oklahoma City(2)
« Reply #36 on: September 11, 2013, 07:21:39 PM »

Online Roy H.

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Starting Lineup

1 - Ellis
2 - Bradley
3 - James
4 - Ibaka
5 - Davis

I so hate when teams do gimmicky things like this.  BBD is a decent center off the bench when you need to body up post players, but why start him?

You're weakening your defense, your rebounding, your inside scoring and your athleticism...  for what reason?  To put in an inefficient jump-shooting power forward?

This strategy makes me seriously want to change my vote.  Your team's defense is good enough to win without resorting to gimmicks that no NBA coach would.


I'M THE SILVERBACK GORILLA IN THIS MOTHER——— AND DON'T NONE OF YA'LL EVER FORGET IT!@ 34 minutes

Re: 2013 CB Draft: Western Finals: Minnesota(1) vs Oklahoma City(2)
« Reply #37 on: September 11, 2013, 07:23:12 PM »

fitzhickey

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I'm leaning towards OKC in this one
No way can Ibaka/Jordan stop Dwight

I just think that Howard is overrated offensively.  He rarely takes over games.  His value is more as a pretty good (but non-dominant) scorer who is also an elite defender and rebounder.
I just think howard is way too strong for them
not a dominant scorer I agree

Re: 2013 CB Draft: Western Finals: Minnesota(1) vs Oklahoma City(2)
« Reply #38 on: September 11, 2013, 07:25:20 PM »

fitzhickey

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Starting Lineup

1 - Ellis
2 - Bradley
3 - James
4 - Ibaka
5 - Davis

I so hate when teams do gimmicky things like this.  BBD is a decent center off the bench when you need to body up post players, but why start him?

You're weakening your defense, your rebounding, your inside scoring and your athleticism...  for what reason?  To put in an inefficient jump-shooting power forward?

This strategy makes me seriously want to change my vote.  Your team's defense is good enough to win without resorting to gimmicks that no NBA coach would.
I don't like it but it will force howard to be accountable for his man outside of the key
Lebron will be slashing all the time.

Re: 2013 CB Draft: Western Finals: Minnesota(1) vs Oklahoma City(2)
« Reply #39 on: September 11, 2013, 07:26:59 PM »

Offline McHales Pits

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Starting Lineup

1 - Ellis
2 - Bradley
3 - James
4 - Ibaka
5 - Davis

I so hate when teams do gimmicky things like this.  BBD is a decent center off the bench when you need to body up post players, but why start him?

You're weakening your defense, your rebounding, your inside scoring and your athleticism...  for what reason?  To put in an inefficient jump-shooting power forward?

This strategy makes me seriously change my vote.

I'd hardly call it gimmicky, Roy. He has had success against Howard in the past defensively and allows me to pull Howard and Gibson away from the rim when on offense with Ibaka. Jordan will still play his 22-24 MPG and Davis will get a slight up-tick in playing time from 16 MPG to 22-24 MPG.
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Re: 2013 CB Draft: Western Finals: Minnesota(1) vs Oklahoma City(2)
« Reply #40 on: September 11, 2013, 07:27:22 PM »

Online Roy H.

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Starting Lineup

1 - Ellis
2 - Bradley
3 - James
4 - Ibaka
5 - Davis

I so hate when teams do gimmicky things like this.  BBD is a decent center off the bench when you need to body up post players, but why start him?

You're weakening your defense, your rebounding, your inside scoring and your athleticism...  for what reason?  To put in an inefficient jump-shooting power forward?

This strategy makes me seriously want to change my vote.  Your team's defense is good enough to win without resorting to gimmicks that no NBA coach would.
I don't like it but it will force howard to be accountable for his man outside of the key
Lebron will be slashing all the time.

I don't think that Howard would follow BBD outside.  He's so inefficient from out there that I think Minnesota would dare him to shoot.


I'M THE SILVERBACK GORILLA IN THIS MOTHER——— AND DON'T NONE OF YA'LL EVER FORGET IT!@ 34 minutes

Re: 2013 CB Draft: Western Finals: Minnesota(1) vs Oklahoma City(2)
« Reply #41 on: September 11, 2013, 07:28:53 PM »

Offline Kane3387

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Oddly enough I thought the Wolves were the weakest of the four. I still don't understand why so many took them over GSW.

I'm with you on the above Who! Lol  ;D

Anyways. A combination of a healthy Howard and rose is lethal. I'm assuming for them to make it this far means both are 100%.

Who really defends Dwight in the fourth bc DJ doesn't play at the end of games. Not Ibaka or James.

I see two top five players vs one here. I also see Ben Gordon as a major player here. He's had to have been playing well to make the WCF.

We have seen first hand how good Gordon and rose are together. Remember 2009?! 7 game series?

I hate Ellis on Gordon. Hate it! Gordon will destroy him running him off curls and screens. Since his days at UCONN Gordon has shown he plays excellent on big stages. When the bulls were in the playoffs he was always the go to guy and closer. He just hasn't been in relevant games the last few years and thus I think he's become disinterested. He's already getting paid. I think that's his attitude and while I think it's bad, I think it changes in May.

Rose and Howard are a tremendous 1 and 2 punch. Gordon in the playoffs is a great compliment to both and a good third option.

I like OKC.

Also based on the 10-9 vote against GS I have no choice but to assume Lebron just went through an epic and grueling 7 game series against Rondo, Big Roy, and Aldridge. Now you're asking him to overcome Derrick Rose and Dwight Howard on top of that?

Don't see him doing that.


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Re: 2013 CB Draft: Western Finals: Minnesota(1) vs Oklahoma City(2)
« Reply #42 on: September 11, 2013, 07:29:35 PM »

Online Roy H.

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Starting Lineup

1 - Ellis
2 - Bradley
3 - James
4 - Ibaka
5 - Davis

I so hate when teams do gimmicky things like this.  BBD is a decent center off the bench when you need to body up post players, but why start him?

You're weakening your defense, your rebounding, your inside scoring and your athleticism...  for what reason?  To put in an inefficient jump-shooting power forward?

This strategy makes me seriously change my vote.

I'd hardly call it gimmicky, Roy. He has had success against Howard in the past and allows me to pull Howard and Gibson away from the rim. Jordan will still play his 22-24 MPG and Davis will get a slight up-tick in playing time from 16 MPG to 22-24 MPG.

Again, Howard isn't a moron.  He's going to let Davis shoot.

BBD from 10 to 23 feet:  33.0%

I'm pretty sure that Minnesota will gladly live with that.


I'M THE SILVERBACK GORILLA IN THIS MOTHER——— AND DON'T NONE OF YA'LL EVER FORGET IT!@ 34 minutes

Re: 2013 CB Draft: Western Finals: Minnesota(1) vs Oklahoma City(2)
« Reply #43 on: September 11, 2013, 07:31:15 PM »

Offline Lucky17

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Starting Lineup

1 - Ellis
2 - Bradley
3 - James
4 - Ibaka
5 - Davis

Regarding Minnesota on Offense
This matchup is all about LeBron exploiting the opponents defense. Davis has been inserted in the lineup to provide two bigs capable of running the pick game with LeBron. They are both capable of spotting up on the baseline to pull Howard and Gibson away from the hoop to open up slashing lanes for James and Ellis and can make the defense pay with efficient spot up mid-range shooting. They can also run the pick and pop game, too. The wing defense on OKC will not provide sufficient opposition to LeBron having his way.

We're giving you the outside jumpers; we're closing ranks to cut off paint penetration.

Interesting fact: from ten feet out and beyond, Taj Gibson shoots the ball about as well/efficiently as Glen Davis:

http://www.hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=Taj%20Gibson

http://www.hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=Glen%20Davis

Dwight will cheat off Davis. Taj is mobile enough to come out to face Ibaka. And if your bigs are playing that far out, they'll be giving up rebounding opportunities.

Shumpert doesn't have to stop LeBron, just make him honest/work a little bit. If LeBron makes his way into the paint, we'll have plenty of help defense.

As with a previous series, I feel every jumper attempted by someone other than LeBron is a small victory for my defense.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2013, 07:38:33 PM by Lucky17 »
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Re: 2013 CB Draft: Western Finals: Minnesota(1) vs Oklahoma City(2)
« Reply #44 on: September 11, 2013, 07:37:52 PM »

Offline Who

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DeAndre Jordan is a much more capable defender against Dwight Howard than Glen Davis.

Glen Davis can defend D.Howard fairly well in straight post ups and one-on-one moves but Glen Davis has nowhere near the length and/or athleticism needed to deny a player with Howard's size and athleticism when on the move.

Such as in PnRs when the PG can easily pass over the top of the ground bound BBD to the uber-athletic Dwight Howard. BBD will also be a very poor defender in help and recover situations to Dwight. And BBD doesn't have the rebounding ability to keep Dwight Howard off of the offensive glass consistently enough. Dwight too long and too athletic. Can get rebounds over the top of BBD.