Author Topic: 2013 CB Draft: Eastern First Round: Cleveland(3) vs Orlando(6)  (Read 97848 times)

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2013 CB Draft: Eastern First Round: Cleveland(3) vs Orlando(6)
« on: September 08, 2013, 03:59:54 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Cleveland Cavaliers vs Orlando Magic

Cleveland
Guards: Ty Lawson, Tony Allen, Jamal Crawford, Steve Blake, Terrence Ross
Forwards: Al Horford, Carl Landry, Gerald Wallace, Caron Butler, Lamar Odom
Centers: Kevin Garnett, Timofey Mozgov, Bernard James
Lionel Hollins

Presser: http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=67439.msg1545562#msg1545562


Orlando

Guards: Kobe Bryant, George Hill, Jarrett Jack, Vince Carter, Sebastian Telfair
Forwards: Paul Millsap, Amar'e Stoudemire, Metta World Peace, Ronnie Brewer, Maurice Harkless,
Centers: Omer Asik, Nick Collison, Aaron Gray
Coach: Eric Spoelstra

Presser: http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=67441.msg1546834#msg1546834


Polls open at 12 noon EST Sept. 9th. Close 11:59:59PM  Sept. 9th. Here are the voting guidelines for this round:

http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=67476.msg1547496#msg1547496
« Last Edit: September 08, 2013, 05:23:19 PM by nickagneta »

Re: 2013 CB Draft: Eastern First Round: Cleveland(3) vs Orlando(6)
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2013, 04:00:45 PM »

Offline AB_Celtic

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Did AB use this pic in his presser? Why yes, he did!

>>> LINK TO PRESSER <<<
The majority of the information about the Cavaliers as a team can be found at the link above.
This post is reserved for information pertaining to the CLE-ORL first round matchup.

MINUTES BREAKDOWN AND ROLES
Player      Mins   Role
T.Lawson    38     Scoring, facilitating
A.Horford   34     Scoring, rebounding
K.Garnett   34     Anchoring the defense, rebounding
T.Allen     33     Guarding Kobe Bryant
J.Crawford  30     Scoring
C.Landry    28     Scoring, rebounding
C.Butler    20     3pt shooting
G.Wallace   13     Defensive punch
S.Blake     10     Facilitating, 3pt shooting


Every Cavalier knows exactly what he has to do for us to win this series. Perhaps the most important role falls on the shoulders of one Tony Allen - and that is to contain Kobe Bryant.



TALKING POINTS
1. Allen vs. Kobe
Kobe Bryant is the biggest threat on Orlando's roster. If Cleveland is to win this series, he will need to be contained. Good thing we have Tony Allen. Tony will defend Kobe throughout the entire series, and even Kobe himself has admitted that nobody else does that better.
When asked to name who defends him the best, Bryant responded, “Tony Allen. He’s not the biggest guy, but he knows how to guard you.”

2. The Frontcourt
Orlando's second-biggest asset is its frontcourt, one that features Omer Asik, Paul Millsap, and Amar'e Stoudemire. Fortunately, Cleveland's biggest asset is also its frontcourt, and we believe that our frontcourt can outperform Orlando's, even if you assume Amar'e is healthy (which you probably shouldn't). To maximize efficiency, Landry will defend Asik, Horford will defend Millsap, and Garnett will defend Stoudemire as much as possible.

3. Championship experience and The KG Factor
Get used to this talking point, folks. It'll probably show up in every series thread from here on out. Kevin Garnett (no longer on a minutes limitation) and his intensity and desire to win will lead this Cleveland team to victory. If you need more details, check out the blurb on KG in the presser.




Best of luck to fwf - and all of the other playoff teams - but it's game on now.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2013, 06:18:35 PM by AB_Celtic »

Re: 2013 CB Draft: Eastern First Round: Cleveland(3) vs Orlando(6)
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2013, 06:24:33 PM »

Offline dark_lord

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orlando....how do you get around the kobe injury debate? imo, even with a healthy kobe, you lose this series.  so what do you do with an injured, or not 100% kobe?

Re: 2013 CB Draft: Eastern First Round: Cleveland(3) vs Orlando(6)
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2013, 06:33:09 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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3. Championship experience

You sure you want to go with this one? ;)


Re: 2013 CB Draft: Eastern First Round: Cleveland(3) vs Orlando(6)
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2013, 06:36:57 PM »

Offline ronaldo943

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Jamal Crawford has never shot over .400 in his playoff career, last year he only scored 10 points per game in the playoffs so Cavs how much are you expecting from Horford and Ty? (Scoring wise)

Re: 2013 CB Draft: Eastern First Round: Cleveland(3) vs Orlando(6)
« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2013, 06:37:31 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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orlando....how do you get around the kobe injury debate? imo, even with a healthy kobe, you lose this series.  so what do you do with an injured, or not 100% kobe?

Well, if you think we lose either way, the point is kinda moot.

But for anyone who's still on the fence and wondering the same thing, remember we're now talking about May 2014, not November 2013.  Kobe will have had an entire season to play into shape and prepare for the playoffs, as will Amar'e.  Both of these guys are seasoned vets with loads of playoff experience, and are well aware that the season is a marathon, not a sprint. 

Not one of us has a crystal ball to see how things actually play out, but anyone who knows the league should expect Kobe and Amar'e to do everything possible to be at full strength when the real season rolls around.

Re: 2013 CB Draft: Eastern First Round: Cleveland(3) vs Orlando(6)
« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2013, 06:38:11 PM »

Offline dark_lord

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3. Championship experience

You sure you want to go with this one? ;)



unfortunately, this is what i think when i see kobe as your focal point :-\ (sorry)


Re: 2013 CB Draft: Eastern First Round: Cleveland(3) vs Orlando(6)
« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2013, 06:40:32 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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orlando....how do you get around the kobe injury debate? imo, even with a healthy kobe, you lose this series.  so what do you do with an injured, or not 100% kobe?

My answer to questions like these is, if Orlando is in the playoffs, Kobe must be at least somewhat healthy and playing well.

I don't think Kobe can carry the team by Cleveland, though, especially when matched up with Tony Allen.  I'm open-minded, but I basically agree that Cleveland is the pretty heavy favorite here.


I'M THE SILVERBACK GORILLA IN THIS MOTHER——— AND DON'T NONE OF YA'LL EVER FORGET IT!@ 34 minutes

Re: 2013 CB Draft: Eastern First Round: Cleveland(3) vs Orlando(6)
« Reply #8 on: September 08, 2013, 06:41:39 PM »

Offline AB_Celtic

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3. Championship experience

You sure you want to go with this one? ;)

Kobe's already had his 5-course meal, and is quite stuffed.

KG's only had a taste of a championship, and he's starving for more ;)

Re: 2013 CB Draft: Eastern First Round: Cleveland(3) vs Orlando(6)
« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2013, 06:43:39 PM »

Offline AB_Celtic

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Jamal Crawford has never shot over .400 in his playoff career, last year he only scored 10 points per game in the playoffs so Cavs how much are you expecting from Horford and Ty? (Scoring wise)

Well, it seems like you're convinced that Crawford can't shoot over .400 or score a bunch of points in the playoffs. I am not convinced.

While I can't speak to his pre-Clippers career (I wasn't familiar with him), I can tell you that he'll get a lot more open looks playing with KG and Horford, both of whom can spread the floor a lot more than Blake and DeAndre. So we expect roughly 15 ppg from Crawford, and around 20 ppg from Horford and Ty, each.

Re: 2013 CB Draft: Eastern First Round: Cleveland(3) vs Orlando(6)
« Reply #10 on: September 08, 2013, 07:21:06 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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So, with the easy question out of the way, on to the broader strategy.  First, Cleveland is a very similar team to Orlando, with lots of older veterans and a focus on D.  They're a fine team and a tough matchup for anyone.  But here's what separates us from them, starting with the intangibles and D:

Championship and Playoff Experience
: The Cavs seem to think this is an advantage for them - and against some teams it might be. But not when facing Orlando.  Kobe, of course, has more rings than the entire Cleveland roster. 

But in addition, we also have far more players who have made deep playoff runs.  8 of our 9 top rotation guys, as well as Ronnie Brewer, have been rotation players in a conference finals.  Among Cleveland's top 9, only KG and TA can make that claim.  Despite similar age breakdowns, our top 9 has, on average, 18 more games of playoff experiences than Cleveland's top 9.  We didn't get those extra appearances by just making it to the playoffs, we got them by knowing how to win when we got there.

Perimeter defense:  With most of the Cavs' top players up front, it's essential that Ty Lawson play well to create opportunities.  Unfortunately, Lawson is known for struggling against longer PGs, and Hill is no exception.  Head-to-head with Hill Lawson has only scored 9 pts on 39% shooting with 4 assists.  Only twice has Lawson scored 15 or more pts vs Hill. 

We expect George to give Ty fits all series long, and indirectly reduce the quality looks Horford and KG will get by disrupting the offensive sets before they even begin.  And if Lawson's ineffective, who becomes the primary tablesetter for Cleveland?  Crawford is a chucker who, as noted below, has consistently struggled in the playoffs.  The only other option is a 34-year-old Steve Blake.  Take out Ty and the Cavs' offense, already not their strong suit, sputters to a halt.

"Tony Allen, Kobe-stopper" is a myth:
In 10 playoff matchups, Kobe has outscored TA 26.4-3, with 7 reb, 4 ast and 2.5 stl.  Not exactly getting shut down there.   Now, you may be saying "That's not fair!  Tony barely played in a lot of those games!"  But that's precisely the point.  TA didn't play because his defense on Kobe wasn't nearly enough to overcome his offensive deficiencies. 

It's a little silly to see Allen as some kind of Kobe-nullifier when a team with the opportunity to use him that way in the most high-stakes environment possible passed on the chance - twice! - to use him in that role.  And even in the regular season when they matched up more often, Kobe still had a huge edge.  Unless we want to pretend Tony's a sharply different player now, there's just not much of an argument there.

Interior defense: We already have Hill clamping down on Lawson, but he's coupled with an elite P+R defender on the other end, Omer Asik.  Asik will match up with Horford and prevent penetration by Lawson and rolls to the basket by Al, forcing him into lower percentage midrange jump shots.  Al will also have tremendous trouble posting against the bigger Asik, one of the stoutest post defenders in the league.  KG is no longer a pick and roll threat, or much of a post guy, and Millsap is mobile enough to challenge the occasional pick and pop action, and force KG to do his work in the post.  Already stymied on the perimeter, Cleveland will have trouble feeding its talented bigs as well.

Balanced disruption.  With Hill smothering Lawson, Kobe and Carter/MWP attacking passing lanes, and Asik and Millsap forcing Horford and KG to play in their lowest-percentage areas (midrange and post, respectively), absolutely nothing is going to come easy for Cleveland on offense, which is already their weak suit.

Offense strategy to come...
« Last Edit: September 08, 2013, 07:28:31 PM by foulweatherfan »

Re: 2013 CB Draft: Eastern First Round: Cleveland(3) vs Orlando(6)
« Reply #11 on: September 08, 2013, 07:22:53 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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3. Championship experience

You sure you want to go with this one? ;)

Kobe's already had his 5-course meal, and is quite stuffed.

KG's only had a taste of a championship, and he's starving for more ;)

I don't think playing 48 minutes every night just to sneak into the playoffs with the most disappointing team of his career is what a guy who's "stuffed" with success would do.  There isn't really any way to seriously argue that Kobe isn't ferociously motivated to get at least one more ring.

Re: 2013 CB Draft: Eastern First Round: Cleveland(3) vs Orlando(6)
« Reply #12 on: September 08, 2013, 07:26:40 PM »

Offline ronaldo943

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So, with the easy question out of the way, on to the broader strategy.  First, Cleveland is a very similar team to Orlando, with lots of older veterans and a focus on D.  They're a fine team and a tough matchup for anyone.  But here's what separates us from them, starting with the intangibles and D:

Championship and Playoff Experience
: The Cavs seem to think this is an advantage for them - and against some teams it might be. But not when facing Orlando.  Kobe, of course, has more rings than the entire Cleveland roster. 

But in addition, we also have far more players who have made deep playoff runs.  8 of our 9 top rotation guys, as well as Ronnie Brewer, have been rotation players in a conference finals.  Among Cleveland's top 9, only KG and TA can make that claim.  Despite similar age breakdowns, our top 9 has, on average, 18 more games of playoff experiences than Cleveland's top 9.  We didn't get those extra appearances by just making it to the playoffs, we got them by knowing how to win when we got there.

Perimeter defense:  With most of the Cavs' top players up front, it's essential that Ty Lawson play well to create opportunities.  Unfortunately, Lawson is known for struggling against longer PGs, and Hill is no exception.  Head-to-head with Hill Lawson has only scored 9 pts on 39% shooting with 4 assists.  Only twice has Lawson scored 15 or more pts vs Hill. 

We expect George to give Ty fits all series long, and indirectly reduce the quality looks Horford and KG will get by disrupting the offensive sets before they even begin.  And if Lawson's ineffective, who becomes the primary tablesetter for Cleveland?  Crawford is a chucker who, as noted below, has consistently struggled in the playoffs.  The only other option is a 34-year-old Steve Blake.  Take out Ty and the Cavs' offense, already not their strong suit, sputters to a halt.

"Tony Allen, Kobe-stopper" is a myth:
In 10 playoff matchups, Kobe has outscored TA 26.4-3, with 7 reb, 4 ast and 2.5 stl.  Not exactly getting shut down there.   Now, you may be saying "That's not fair!  Tony barely played in a lot of those games!"  But that's precisely the point.  TA didn't play because his defense on Kobe wasn't nearly enough to overcome his offensive deficiencies. 

It's a little silly to see Allen as some kind of Kobe-nullifier when a team with the opportunity to use him that way in the most high-stakes environment possible passed on the chance - twice! - to use him in that role.  And even in the regular season when they matched up more often, Kobe still had a huge edge.  Unless we want to pretend Tony's a sharply different player now, there's just not much of an argument there.

Interior defense: We already have Hill clamping down on Lawson, but he's coupled with an elite P+R defender on the other end, Omer Asik.  Asik will match up with Horford and prevent penetration by Lawson and rolls to the basket by Al, forcing him into lower percentage midrange jump shots.  KG is no longer a pick and roll threat, and Millsap is mobile enough to challenge the occasional pick and pop action.  Already stymied on the perimeter, Cleveland will have trouble feeding its talented bigs as well.

Offense strategy to come...

Boom goes the dynamite! Take out Ty and Crawford out of the equation and it becomes really hard for Cleveland to score.

Re: 2013 CB Draft: Eastern First Round: Cleveland(3) vs Orlando(6)
« Reply #13 on: September 08, 2013, 07:27:34 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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I really like Cleveland as a playoff team and as much as I give props to fwf for putting together maybe the best "Kobe" team in CB Draft history, I think the Magic are going up against a team that is just made to succeed in the playoffs.

Magic just don't match up underneath and Allen will give Kobe fits and make him inefficient. Its going to take some extremely effectual arguments for me to go against the Cavs here.

Re: 2013 CB Draft: Eastern First Round: Cleveland(3) vs Orlando(6)
« Reply #14 on: September 08, 2013, 07:30:37 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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Magic just don't match up underneath and Allen will give Kobe fits and make him inefficient. Its going to take some extremely effectual arguments for me to go against the Cavs here.

Asik is a terrific post and P+R defender and can force Horford out of his comfort zone to take lower-percentage midrange shots.  Millsap is mobile enough to consistently harass KG's jumpshooting.  We match up very well up front.

And the next piece of real evidence that TA can defend Kobe effectively will be the first.  It's an argument that's basically woven out of air.