Author Topic: 2013 CB Draft: FINALS RESULTS WE HAVE A NEW CHAMPION  (Read 36728 times)

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Re: 2013 CB Draft: FINALS RESULTS WE HAVE A NEW CHAMPION
« Reply #180 on: September 14, 2013, 02:01:29 AM »

Offline indeedproceed

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I see it was mentioned in the Finals thread, and I wanted to address the topic.  While there were a few posters who expressed disappointment in McHalesPits debate "style", or perceived lack of debate to be more precise, I found his style refreshing, whether intentional or otherwise.

To me, the most interesting and fun aspect of this game is the process of roster building.  It's a chance to see how good your GM'ing skills are, and compared to other's.  What I don't 'love' is the desires of some to turn it into a contest of who has better debating skills.  I find it takes away from what the 'real' objective is supposed to be.  So yes, make your point and then let the voters discuss amongst themselves.

Sadly, I suspect the powers that be like that it is more of a debating skills contest.  Seems underhanded to me.  So yeah, if rules are changed too drastically, and with the intention of placing further emphasis on what I view as nothing more than distraction tactics, I probably will not return as a GM.  I found a few posters general manner to be rather distasteful, and would likely be further put-off with stronger emphasis placed on the veracity with which one tries to 'sell' his or her team.

I think there is something to this. But I also think you're misinterpreting the intent, or what I want/hope the intent to be. Ideally, you'd get 4 posts. One blind 'strategy' post from each team, and once that's seen and digested, one again blind (as in they're released simultaneously) rebuttal from each team to their counterpart.

But the logistics of this are tough. There were 16 votes in the finals. Voter fatigue is a huge deal in these drafts. I can't recall how many votes we had last year , but I want to say it was something like 22 in the finals.

We should get at minimum a vote from every team. Then ideally we would drag in another 10-15 votes from around the forum.

16 votes, and at least 3, maybe more from non-GMs. It's disheartening, and a problem that is not easily solved. One might say draft fatigue from other similar contests is to blame, but this has been an ongoing issue for some time.

And doing what Id call the 'right' way would require even more attention from the voting public. Attention they seem, even inexplicably the GMs, unwilling to give.

"You've gotta respect a 15-percent 3-point shooter. A guy
like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: 2013 CB Draft: FINALS RESULTS WE HAVE A NEW CHAMPION
« Reply #181 on: September 14, 2013, 02:11:16 AM »

Offline KGs Knee

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IP, I do agree with the voting aspect fully.  I know everyone has a life outside of CB, and know this first hand.  Still, if you sign up to be a GM, please at least make the effort to vote.  It takes only a few minutes (literally) to submit a vote via PM.

Also, the "two blind posts each" suggestion is a decent one.  I just don't think engaging in any sort of back-and-forth should ever be a 'requirement'.  If one side or the other wishes to do so, that is their prerogative.

Re: 2013 CB Draft: FINALS RESULTS WE HAVE A NEW CHAMPION
« Reply #182 on: September 14, 2013, 02:28:34 AM »

Offline indeedproceed

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IP, I do agree with the voting aspect fully.  I know everyone has a life outside of CB, and know this first hand.  Still, if you sign up to be a GM, please at least make the effort to vote.  It takes only a few minutes (literally) to submit a vote via PM.

Also, the "two blind posts each" suggestion is a decent one.  I just don't think engaging in any sort of back-and-forth should ever be a 'requirement'.  If one side or the other wishes to do so, that is their prerogative.

I think that there should be some requirement though.

For instance, if I had been starting two big guys (say Asik and Howard) for defense, and you countered going small (say Lebron/Sanders) instead of starting the 4 you'd projected all year (say Brandon Bass), that's a huge difference. That type of pure strategy and team building is what the draft is for.

But if you just never say what you'll do, and I commit to a gameplan, others who think you 'going small' makes the difference in the series will just see what they want, or not, while the guy who committed is left hanging with people likely expecting a best-case scenario for the other party. Seems kind of unfair.

"You've gotta respect a 15-percent 3-point shooter. A guy
like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: 2013 CB Draft: FINALS RESULTS WE HAVE A NEW CHAMPION
« Reply #183 on: September 14, 2013, 02:41:28 AM »

Online JSD

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IP, I do agree with the voting aspect fully.  I know everyone has a life outside of CB, and know this first hand.  Still, if you sign up to be a GM, please at least make the effort to vote.  It takes only a few minutes (literally) to submit a vote via PM.

Also, the "two blind posts each" suggestion is a decent one.  I just don't think engaging in any sort of back-and-forth should ever be a 'requirement'.  If one side or the other wishes to do so, that is their prerogative.

I think that there should be some requirement though.

For instance, if I had been starting two big guys (say Asik and Howard) for defense, and you countered going small (say Lebron/Sanders) instead of starting the 4 you'd projected all year (say Brandon Bass), that's a huge difference. That type of pure strategy and team building is what the draft is for.

But if you just never say what you'll do, and I commit to a gameplan, others who think you 'going small' makes the difference in the series will just see what they want, or not, while the guy who committed is left hanging with people likely expecting a best-case scenario for the other party. Seems kind of unfair.

But that's coaching not GMing. The question to the voter should be, "does team have the type of coach that could win in the X's and O's department"

Re: 2013 CB Draft: FINALS RESULTS WE HAVE A NEW CHAMPION
« Reply #184 on: September 14, 2013, 03:02:36 AM »

Offline indeedproceed

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IP, I do agree with the voting aspect fully.  I know everyone has a life outside of CB, and know this first hand.  Still, if you sign up to be a GM, please at least make the effort to vote.  It takes only a few minutes (literally) to submit a vote via PM.

Also, the "two blind posts each" suggestion is a decent one.  I just don't think engaging in any sort of back-and-forth should ever be a 'requirement'.  If one side or the other wishes to do so, that is their prerogative.

I think that there should be some requirement though.

For instance, if I had been starting two big guys (say Asik and Howard) for defense, and you countered going small (say Lebron/Sanders) instead of starting the 4 you'd projected all year (say Brandon Bass), that's a huge difference. That type of pure strategy and team building is what the draft is for.

But if you just never say what you'll do, and I commit to a gameplan, others who think you 'going small' makes the difference in the series will just see what they want, or not, while the guy who committed is left hanging with people likely expecting a best-case scenario for the other party. Seems kind of unfair.

But that's coaching not GMing. The question to the voter should be, "does team have the type of coach that could win in the X's and O's department"

That's a really solid point

"You've gotta respect a 15-percent 3-point shooter. A guy
like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: 2013 CB Draft: FINALS RESULTS WE HAVE A NEW CHAMPION
« Reply #185 on: September 14, 2013, 04:00:23 AM »

Offline McHales Pits

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Hi All-

It's currently 3:30 EST and I am grabbing a crummy hotel breakfast before catching the shuttle to the airport for my 6:00 AM flight back home. I decided I'd spend a few minutes to make a post to touch on a few topics.

1) Thank you for all those who voted both for and against me. This whole experience has been a blast. I'm happy to see that my Minnesota Timberwolves came out on top (-ish). Cleveland built a heck of a team that is equally worthy of winning - kudos to them. To quote Denzel from Remember the Titans, "You're hall of fame in my book". Thank you to Nick for allowing a new poster to participate and running this thing tremendously. I have had interactions with numerous posters during these last few weeks and it has been fun "meeting" you. I look forward to discussing real basketball with you all when the season starts.

2) Regarding my lack of posting during finals - unfortunately a work trip has made it a bit difficult to put the effort in. As you'll see throughout the draft and matchups, I tried to keep a standard posting style. In the draft, I selected - added a photo - and commented on the player. In the matchups - I would list the starting lineup - comment on overall strategy - and comment on individual facets of the game. So the fact I didn't get to in the finals was more bad timing than negligence on my part. However with that being said, I looked at this as a team building exercise moreso than a debate contest. After attempting to defend my decision to start BBD in the WCF, I realized that in some cases people already have their mind made up about players and no matter of persuasion can move them from that stance. To some Monta will always be a chucker and wouldn't be able to succeed in an exercise such as this. I do believe that the debate is an important part of this, but I think it should be a two or three post strategy style where we list initial strategy/rotation followed by a few adjustments.

3) Regarding my team - it is easy to start off with the first pick and know that you have a guaranteed shot at the title if you surround him well. But it isn't easy when the next two picks are 50 and 75 overall. I didnt like Indiana's draft board after securing the Durant-Williams combo so I felt that securing the second superstar was unlikely/unwise. I decided to build around Lebron with complementary players to build a deep, versatile roster. As many noticed, my strategy was to get defensive minded players (defense is almost always a constant as its effort based) who had another skill to bring to the table. I felt that way allowed my team a great deal of versatility to match up against anybody.

Again - it's been a pleasure - thank you to all who participated, contributed, voted, and moderated. It has been fun. Cheers!

2013 CB Draft Champions*: Minnesota Timberwolves
DKC League: Washington Wizards

Re: 2013 CB Draft: FINALS RESULTS WE HAVE A NEW CHAMPION
« Reply #186 on: September 14, 2013, 08:44:51 AM »

Offline dark_lord

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congrats to cle and minny for making it to the finals and having such a close finals vote!  congrats to minny for the win.

i think it stinks that MP is forced to defend having a life outside of the draft, having to defend having the #1 pick (when virtually everyone would have selected the same player), and is made to felt that he wins by default bc he drafted lbj....when he should be happy and proud of winning this thing. 

to MP...don't listen to the junk that has been said and dont apologize.  you drafted a great team and you won, so enjoy it.

im disappointed with a lot of the posts, not only for the content and attitude, but bc i really believe if other posters were making the posts, there would have been disciplinary action, not only from the draft, but for the blog in general.  im not going to go into details and will just leave it at that.  the aforementioned posts, for me personally, made me not want to chime in with thoughts about the matchups or my voting, so im guessing gm's actually involved in the draft felt it as well (i dont know for sure and am assuming this to be true).

my last point....the draft is super long and takes an enormous commitment. this thing takes like a month, with a daily commitment along the way.  i am amazed people can actually commit to it, so kudos to all.

Re: 2013 CB Draft: FINALS RESULTS WE HAVE A NEW CHAMPION
« Reply #187 on: September 14, 2013, 09:27:49 AM »

Offline fitzhickey

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agree with darklord
MP you did a great job with your team. not many people wouldn't pick Lebron at #1
you shouldn't have to defend having Lebron
big congrats to MP
great job!
DKC NOP
Deron Williams / Shelvin Mack
Andrew Wiggins / Lou Williams
Luol Deng / Francisco Garcia
Anthony Davis / Damjan Rudez
Brook Lopez / Aron Baynes

Re: 2013 CB Draft: FINALS RESULTS WE HAVE A NEW CHAMPION
« Reply #188 on: September 14, 2013, 09:56:19 AM »

Offline nickagneta

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IP, I do agree with the voting aspect fully.  I know everyone has a life outside of CB, and know this first hand.  Still, if you sign up to be a GM, please at least make the effort to vote.  It takes only a few minutes (literally) to submit a vote via PM.

Also, the "two blind posts each" suggestion is a decent one.  I just don't think engaging in any sort of back-and-forth should ever be a 'requirement'.  If one side or the other wishes to do so, that is their prerogative.

I think that there should be some requirement though.

For instance, if I had been starting two big guys (say Asik and Howard) for defense, and you countered going small (say Lebron/Sanders) instead of starting the 4 you'd projected all year (say Brandon Bass), that's a huge difference. That type of pure strategy and team building is what the draft is for.

But if you just never say what you'll do, and I commit to a gameplan, others who think you 'going small' makes the difference in the series will just see what they want, or not, while the guy who committed is left hanging with people likely expecting a best-case scenario for the other party. Seems kind of unfair.

But that's coaching not GMing. The question to the voter should be, "does team have the type of coach that could win in the X's and O's department"
Except, many who participate feel picking a coach is a ridiculous part of the game so saying the coach will be doing the decision making regarding that might be viewed as a bit of a political cop out job to avoid the answering of strategy questions those people.


Re: 2013 CB Draft: FINALS RESULTS WE HAVE A NEW CHAMPION
« Reply #189 on: September 14, 2013, 10:03:33 AM »

Offline nickagneta

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ALL FUTURE DISCUSSIONS REGARDING THIS DRAFT ARE LIMITED TO THE INDIVIDUAL PLAYOFF THREADS, THE MAIN DRAFT THREAD, AND THE HOW'S MY CB DRAFT TEAM LOOK? THREAD. PLEASE COMMENT IN THE INDIVIDUAL PLAYOFF MATCH UPS IN THOSE THREADS. PLEASE COMMENT ON HOW YOUR TEAM LOOKS AS THE SEASON GOES BY IN THE HOW'S MY CB DRAFT TEAM LOOK? THREAD. ALL OTHER COMMENTS SHOULD BE DIRECTED TO THE MAIN DRAFT THREAD