Tankers Need A Reality Check

[chambers]

My question is:  without high draft picks giving a team the best possible shot to land a franchise player, how is this team supposed to build a title contender with mid to low picks, trades and free agency? 

Do what Indiana did. They grabbed Hibbert and Granger 18th overall in separate drafts, drafted George 10th overall, signed David West in FA, and traded for George Hill. They also drafted role players like Hansbrough with late lottery picks.

They're just one example of building a competitive team without resorting to tanking.

They're competitive but are they a championship team? I liken them to our 2012 squad. Very good, very tough defensively but not quite enough offensive firepower.

My main point here though is that the only way a team like that gets through is if one of their All Star players is injured.
Ie the Bulls, Heat, Nets all have problems...Then they might beat them Iif they shoot well.

[PhoSita]

My question is:  without high draft picks giving a team the best possible shot to land a franchise player, how is this team supposed to build a title contender with mid to low picks, trades and free agency? 

Do what Indiana did. They grabbed Hibbert and Granger 18th overall in separate drafts, drafted George 10th overall, signed David West in FA, and traded for George Hill. They also drafted role players like Hansbrough with late lottery picks.

They're just one example of building a competitive team without resorting to tanking.

They're competitive but are they a championship team? I liken them to our 2012 squad. Very good, very tough defensively but not quite enough offensive firepower.

My main point here though is that the only way a team like that gets through is if one of their All Star players is injured.
Ie the Bulls, Heat, Nets all have problems...Then they might beat them Iif they shoot well.

Yeah, don't get me wrong -- I'd love to switch rosters with the Pacers right now.  With George and Hibbert on board, they have the basic ingredients for a 50+ win team for a long time.  Any team would be thrilled to have a young core like that in place.

Still, I think the Pacers are definitely in the "hope other teams have some bad luck and everything goes your way and maybe you'll win a title at some point" category.

Again, not such a bad place to be, but when you're at the start of a rebuild, as we are, the hope is to get a true star or two -- MVP-caliber guys -- who can put you among the very best year after year.

[LooseCannon]

Imagine the Pacers with ownership willing to pay the luxury tax.

[McNoob]

The Pacers took the Heat to 7 games; I'd say they're definitely championship material. Then consider Paul George is only 23, Roy Hibbert is only 26, Lance Stephenson is 22, and they're surrounded by solid veterans (Granger, West, Scola). If Hibbert can bring his game to another level, I can't see many defenses stopping him.

Anyway, the Pacers aren't the only example of not needing to tank to be competitive. Apart from the Spurs and Thunder, most of the championship contending teams were built through trades, free agency, and late round picks. Houston, Brooklyn, New York, and Memphis are examples (and although Memphis did tank at one point, their current nucleus sans Mike Conley was not a result of that). Don't forget Miami too.

[ManUp]

Imo, we're just not good enough to make the play-offs. Not with a inexperienced coach and with guys like Humphries and Gerald Wallace among the best players on our team. I don't think the player and coaches intend to intentionally lose games, but I think Danny has intentionally put a roster together that will struggle to win. There are going to be some growing pains and a lot of losses.

[D.o.s.]

Pacer's biggest problem was a very, very thin bench.

They've addressed that this off-season. If Granger really does come back healthy, they've got a shot to make it out of the East.

[merkins]

The Pacers took the Heat to 7 games; I'd say they're definitely championship material. Then consider Paul George is only 23, Roy Hibbert is only 26, Lance Stephenson is 22, and they're surrounded by solid veterans (Granger, West, Scola). If Hibbert can bring his game to another level, I can't see many defenses stopping him.

Anyway, the Pacers aren't the only example of not needing to tank to be competitive. Apart from the Spurs and Thunder, most of the championship contending teams were built through trades, free agency, and late round picks. Houston, Brooklyn, New York, and Memphis are examples (and although Memphis did tank at one point, their current nucleus sans Mike Conley was not a result of that). Don't forget Miami too.

Miami drafted a high lotto superstar which won a title and later attracted other high lotto superstars to a no income tax, desirable city to come and dominate the NBA.

We offer none of that.

I think your Indiana example is valid but it remains to be seen if they have peaked with their current roster.  That said, OKC may have as well.

[Moranis]

The Pacers took the Heat to 7 games; I'd say they're definitely championship material. Then consider Paul George is only 23, Roy Hibbert is only 26, Lance Stephenson is 22, and they're surrounded by solid veterans (Granger, West, Scola). If Hibbert can bring his game to another level, I can't see many defenses stopping him.

Anyway, the Pacers aren't the only example of not needing to tank to be competitive. Apart from the Spurs and Thunder, most of the championship contending teams were built through trades, free agency, and late round picks. Houston, Brooklyn, New York, and Memphis are examples (and although Memphis did tank at one point, their current nucleus sans Mike Conley was not a result of that). Don't forget Miami too.

The Pacers were in 4 straight lotteries or would have been had they not traded their 2007 pick.  The next year they were the first pick outside of the lottery.  The two years before that they were near the lottery.  So yeah, they were never truly bad, but they also probably wasted 7 years by being very mediocre. 

[McNoob]

The Pacers were in 4 straight lotteries or would have been had they not traded their 2007 pick.  The next year they were the first pick outside of the lottery.  The two years before that they were near the lottery.  So yeah, they were never truly bad, but they also probably wasted 7 years by being very mediocre.

And teams like Toronto, Philadelphia, Sacramento, Utah, Charlotte, Milwaukee, and Atlanta have been mediocre (or worse) for just as long or longer despite having high lottery picks during that span. 

I'd rather not have mediocre C's basketball for seven years, but I'll take that over terrible C's basketball that could result from too much tanking.

[Moranis]

The Pacers were in 4 straight lotteries or would have been had they not traded their 2007 pick.  The next year they were the first pick outside of the lottery.  The two years before that they were near the lottery.  So yeah, they were never truly bad, but they also probably wasted 7 years by being very mediocre.

And teams like Toronto, Philadelphia, Sacramento, Utah, Charlotte, Milwaukee, and Atlanta have been mediocre (or worse) for just as long or longer despite having high lottery picks during that span. 

I'd rather not have mediocre C's basketball for seven years, but I'll take that over terrible C's basketball that could result from too much tanking.

Sacramento is bad now, they weren't during Indiana's mediocre/poor period.  Atlanta has been a second round playoff team 3 of the last 5 seasons.  Utah had 2 top 10 picks of their own during that span and landed Deron Williams (who they traded to land another top 10 pick, Kanter) and Hayward who is still young.  Not sure what you are getting at with them.  They seem to fit exactly the model of Indiana.  Philly has had 2 top 10 picks, Iggy and Turner.  Again they seem like the model of what you are looking for, i.e. finding value later in drafts like Vucevic, Holiday, Speights, Young, Sefolosha, etc. They just couldn't find the right free agents to come in and Iggy was draft too much before them.


Being mediocre is far worse than being terrible because at least being terrible has the potential to lead to a gold mine.