NBA insiders - "Celts hit a home run, SHOCKED by how much value they got"

[Eric M VAN]

Veering off topic here but I've been reading for years about the value of Veteran players "mentoring" youngsters on a team, in the Celtics case, KG waving his magic wand and sprinkling his "bigman's game" pixy dust on the uninitiated and willing or the profound impact Dooling would have with Rondo.. In Garnett's case the mentions were mostly the failures of his "method" getting through to a Big Baby or Semih Erden.

I'm pretty cynical when it comes to the whole "mentoring" thang outside of actual game situations, I mean that's why they have coaches.

Maybe I'm missing something but is this just "feel good" talk or are there any examples of where this "mentoring" process (if it actually exists) made a discernible difference. Is it just one of those catch phrases that has apocryphally made it's way into NBA lore?

[rondoallaturca]

Veering off topic here but I've been reading for years about the value of Veteran players "mentoring" youngsters on a team, in the Celtics case, KG waving his magic wand and sprinkling his "bigman's game" pixy dust on the uninitiated and willing or the profound impact Dooling would have with Rondo.. In Garnett's case the mentions were mostly the failures of his "method" getting through to a Big Baby or Semih Erden.

I'm pretty cynical when it comes to the whole "mentoring" thang outside of actual game situations, I mean that's why they have coaches.

Maybe I'm missing something but is this just "feel good" talk or are there any examples of where this "mentoring" process (if it actually exists) made a discernible difference. Is it just one of those catch phrases that has apocryphally made it's way into NBA lore?

Rondo and Bradley.

[BballTim]

And going back even further, imagine if at the 2012 trade deadline, Danny was able to pull the trigger on dealing Ray for OJ Mayo and Pierce to Brooklyn for a first rounder which would've ended up being Damian Lillard.

Today we'd have a young, exciting lineup of Rondo, Lillard, Mayo, Green, Bradley, etc.

Oh well. Hindsight is always 20/20

Your hindsight is far worse than 20/20

If Pierce is on the Nets, their record is much better. One or 2 more wins (I don't know how tiebreakers work for draft position) and the Nets drop 2 spots in the draft. Pierce adds a lot more wins than Wallace, even in just half a season.

True.  If Brooklyn was willing to throw in that lotto pick for Pierce we might've gotten stuck with Andre Drummond instead.   

  Or Rivers or Leonard or the like.

[lightspeed5]

Veering off topic here but I've been reading for years about the value of Veteran players "mentoring" youngsters on a team, in the Celtics case, KG waving his magic wand and sprinkling his "bigman's game" pixy dust on the uninitiated and willing or the profound impact Dooling would have with Rondo.. In Garnett's case the mentions were mostly the failures of his "method" getting through to a Big Baby or Semih Erden.

I'm pretty cynical when it comes to the whole "mentoring" thang outside of actual game situations, I mean that's why they have coaches.

Maybe I'm missing something but is this just "feel good" talk or are there any examples of where this "mentoring" process (if it actually exists) made a discernible difference. Is it just one of those catch phrases that has apocryphally made it's way into NBA lore?

http://espn.go.com/boston/nba/story/_/id/8833272/for-boston-celtics-jared-sullinger-kg-brotherly-push-pays-off
"I can always hear him in the back of my head," Sullinger said of Garnett. "He's always trying to mentor me, tell me what I can do, what he sees. Trying to make me see what he sees."

[Boris Badenov]

So, I read the entire thread and I don't see anyone mentioning how great it is what we got because KG HAD A NO TRADE CLAUSE! No way we get better offers for KG by a team he would actually go to. I mean, PP said he had to convince (beg) KG to go to BKN... look at how stacked BKN is and he had to be begged to go there and he only went because of PP! So you have to ask yourself what team could offer more for KG and PP (who KG made a package deal). Then ask yourself who was going to take Jet off our hands? We couldn't get DJ for KG b/c the league was like heck no! They didn't want KG without Doc and that was the only reason KG would go there anyway! Then you factor in the ages of those guys...

We got a heck of a lot considering our hands were tied! I don't need to see how the picks turn out to say we got a excellent return.

Good points IMO. TP.

[twistedrico14]

As much as I love PP and did not like seeing him go, this was a great deal for the Celtics. They have plenty of chips and draft picks to rebuild this team without having to completely tank.  I think they will be an entertaining team while rebuilding which is also a plus...

[Interceptor]

I don't see anyone here making the salary point, so I'll do it.

You don't need to draft Kevin Durant to make a pick a useful. The nice thing about rookie scale contracts, is that they pay peanuts relative to the talent, which gives them a lot of value in this new CBA. Exhibit A: Chandler Parsons. A very good player, and the Rockets got him for three years at <1M per year, and then it's RFA for him. It's probably the best contract in the NBA.

Other GMs know this. Ainge doesn't have to use these picks himself, he can sell high to other GMs who are dreaming of the next Parsons. So to sum up, the three things these picks could be good for:

• Choosing an impact player for our own roster
• Trading an un-used pick to other teams to acquire someone that we want
• Picking a high-value player that could be flipped to a team that needs cheap talent

That's some good stuff right there, folks. This is why Ainge is cackling like a madman, the other GMs are in awe, and even The Truth admitted that he would have traded himself for that package. Both teams "won" the trade, but the Celtics won especially hard. Thanks, crazy Russian billionaire!

[syfy9]

Veering off topic here but I've been reading for years about the value of Veteran players "mentoring" youngsters on a team, in the Celtics case, KG waving his magic wand and sprinkling his "bigman's game" pixy dust on the uninitiated and willing or the profound impact Dooling would have with Rondo.. In Garnett's case the mentions were mostly the failures of his "method" getting through to a Big Baby or Semih Erden.

I'm pretty cynical when it comes to the whole "mentoring" thang outside of actual game situations, I mean that's why they have coaches.

Maybe I'm missing something but is this just "feel good" talk or are there any examples of where this "mentoring" process (if it actually exists) made a discernible difference. Is it just one of those catch phrases that has apocryphally made it's way into NBA lore?

http://espn.go.com/boston/nba/story/_/id/8833272/for-boston-celtics-jared-sullinger-kg-brotherly-push-pays-off
"I can always hear him in the back of my head," Sullinger said of Garnett. "He's always trying to mentor me, tell me what I can do, what he sees. Trying to make me see what he sees."

Hahahahahahahahahaha Even now, Sully is probably still hearing KG in the back of his head!

[rickyfan3.0...]

That trade was INCREDIBLE. We fleeced NJ. They were bidding against themselves and overpaid. 3 1st rounders and a swap?? Great haul for a a contract dump, and 2 older players clearly on the decline.

[European NBA fan]

I don't see anyone here making the salary point, so I'll do it.

You don't need to draft Kevin Durant to make a pick a useful. The nice thing about rookie scale contracts, is that they pay peanuts relative to the talent, which gives them a lot of value in this new CBA. Exhibit A: Chandler Parsons. A very good player, and the Rockets got him for three years at <1M per year, and then it's RFA for him. It's probably the best contract in the NBA.

Other GMs know this. Ainge doesn't have to use these picks himself, he can sell high to other GMs who are dreaming of the next Parsons. So to sum up, the three things these picks could be good for:

• Choosing an impact player for our own roster
• Trading an un-used pick to other teams to acquire someone that we want
• Picking a high-value player that could be flipped to a team that needs cheap talent

That's some good stuff right there, folks. This is why Ainge is cackling like a madman, the other GMs are in awe, and even The Truth admitted that he would have traded himself for that package. Both teams "won" the trade, but the Celtics won especially hard. Thanks, crazy Russian billionaire!

Very well put! These picks from Brooklyn are both short and long term (as in 10 years ahead) assets. You really couldn't ask for anything more when you go into a rebuilding phase, where you don't know when the next superstar becomes available (either in the draft or through trade).

[crimson_stallion]

Everyone is talking about the draft picksas if they will be late picks, but three peeps aee forgetting a couple of things:

1.  KG, Pierce and Terry have two seasons left in them at most -2014 and 2015. Once those guys retire the next have a core or Deron, Joe Johnson (who will both be in their 30's) and Lopez..tthat's it.  Then they have no draft picks at all pretty much.  They have up a lot of future to try and win now, and there is a good chance that they are a pretty garbage team bythe time the 2016 sdraft comes around...maybe even the 2015 if KG retires early.

2.  No matter how high or low they are, first round picks, expiring contracts and trade exceptions all have a ton of trade value.

Danny didn't make this trade for today, he made it for the future.  Hump and Bougans expire next season ($17M), Bass and Crawford expire in two seasons ($9M), Lee and Wallace expire in three seasons ($16M).  DA already has solid young prospects in Bradley, Sullinger and Olynyk...all of whom were taken quite late in the draft.  They will be a fringe playoff team at best for the next two seasons so even if the next three seasons give picks in the teens or twenties, DA has shown a knack for finding hidden talent in those ranges. 

He can acquire a solid vet at the deadline for that trade exception if there's a team that isn't working out and decides to make change (i.e. Mavs).  If they choose they can trade an expiring like Bougans out with multiple picks to bring in a nice player.

As noted earlier in the thread the Nets offered a first round pick for Pierce a coipleof years back (when pierce was still an All-star) and Bird was offended when Doc asked for Handsbrough and a 1st for Ray (who at the time was still pretty effective).  Picks are worth a lot in the league, especially with today's strict CBA where every team values talent on rookie contracts.

Honestly I was happy with either choice.  I would have loved seeing KG and Pierce stay for one more year, but at the same time I was happy for us to move on, as long as we got value in return.  I think we did, so im content.

[wdleehi]

That trade was INCREDIBLE. We fleeced NJ. They were bidding against themselves and overpaid. 3 1st rounders and a swap?? Great haul for a a contract dump, and 2 older players clearly on the decline.

I would say NJ got the contract dump.  Wallace was by far the worst contract. 

[hwangjini_1]

That trade was INCREDIBLE. We fleeced NJ. They were bidding against themselves and overpaid. 3 1st rounders and a swap?? Great haul for a a contract dump, and 2 older players clearly on the decline.

I would say NJ got the contract dump.  Wallace was by far the worst contract.

exactly. wallace's contract is terrible and was necessary. no one suddenly realized after the fact that it was a poison pill. everyone knew this contract is one of the worst in basketball, and why ainge took it on.

it was such a terrible contract that brooklyn was willing to mortgage their future to escape it today. for them, it made sense to go for it all now. for ainge, it made sense since the celtics will lose anyway.

i dont see how this horrific contract is going to prevent the celtics from making any essential or crucial moves in the next 2-3 years. for the next 2-3 years this team will be a bad team with or without wallace and his contract. but by taking on wallace and his baggage the celtics will benefit in 3-5 years.

ainge did the right thing for the franchise.

[green147]

I think people are forgetting how valuable these picks are as trade assets. Sure, we might not draft a superstar with the Nets late 2014 pick, but if we package up a couple of later picks with one of our young guys (and TPE), that's a great package to offer a team with a star who wants a change of scenery at the end of the year. The new CBA has, as many sports writers pointed out, massively increased the value of 1st round picks. Many of us have talked about the loaded 2014 draft right? But so many teams (Boston, Chicago, Pheonix, Charlotte, Utah, Philadelphia and more) have acquired multiple 2014 picks. There are a number of teams with no picks in the loaded draft that will be looking at teams like Boston to try and pry their way into the first round...that's value.

If you want a detailed list of who has what future nba draft pick, this is a good link to check out. http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/future_drafts/detailed

Cheers!

[LooseCannon]

That trade was INCREDIBLE. We fleeced NJ. They were bidding against themselves and overpaid. 3 1st rounders and a swap?? Great haul for a a contract dump, and 2 older players clearly on the decline.

I would say NJ got the contract dump.  Wallace was by far the worst contract.

I essentially see the trade as one first round pick as the compensation for the difference between the contracts of Wallace and Terry and everything else as value given back in return for Pierce and Garnett or salary filler to make the trade legal.

Wallace's contract may be bad, but it's not so horrible that it prevents the Celtics from manufacturing cap space to sign a major free agent next summer.