Portland/Detroit/Dallas/Boston trade idea

[RJ87]

I wouldn't call two first round picks nothing and dumping Wallace's salary.  We are not going to be able to sign a max contract with that salary on board.

And what max caliber player will come here to play by themselves?

Rondo is our only All-Star (unless Jeff has a breakout year), a roster with him would be far more attractive than one without him. Stars want to play with other stars.

I don't really think there's any star player in the NBA that wants to play with Rondo bad enough that they'd be willing to come to Boston.

We can agree to disagree.

[Chris]

I wouldn't call two first round picks nothing and dumping Wallace's salary.  We are not going to be able to sign a max contract with that salary on board.

And what max caliber player will come here to play by themselves?

Rondo is our only All-Star (unless Jeff has a breakout year), a roster with him would be far more attractive than one without him. Stars want to play with other stars.

I don't really think there's any star player in the NBA that wants to play with Rondo bad enough that they'd be willing to come to Boston.

We can agree to disagree.

I think an important thing to look at is someone like KG.  KG didn't want to come to Boston.  Once he had been here a couple years, he didn't want to leave.

And I think that is where Danny needs to be focussing (and I think it where he IS focussing).  Not free agents, but on star players who are being shopped by their teams.  Guys who you will take a chance on not resigning when their contract is up, but who you can sell on the city, the organization, and the basketball situation, once they are on the team.

That is why Danny traded for expiring contracts and draft picks before.  But that is also why he needs to maintain Rondo as an asset, or as a player to convince guys to stay, if he is not blown away with an offer for a young, potential star.

[aporel#18]

The key is the draft picks and expiring contracts that is how you get players in sign and trades.  I agree if a free agent was going to be knocking down the door to play with Rondo wouldn't they have done it when we had Rondo,  PP and KG?

First of all, welcome aboard. That said, I don't agree with your statement.

The key are not draft picks and expiring contracts. The key is getting value and keeping flexibility.

The picks we would be getting back for Rondo are not that valuable. The Detroit pick, as Chris said, might not be in the lottery. The Dallas pick is a long shot, because the Mavs owe their first round pick to OKC (it's been mentioned in the bring back Perk threads) and it's top 20 protected until 2018, when it's unprotected.

Sending Rondo, Courtney Lee, Melo and Jordan Crawford to get rid of Wallace's contract seems a bit too much. Yes, you're clearing a lot of money, but you end up like Cleveland before getting Kyrie, or like the Bobcats. Not a good plan.

What the Celtics need is keep their own assets, and only trade them for better ones. If you have to give valuable pieces to get rid of Wallace, you better keep him and try to find a better timing for the trade, maybe he can rebuild his value playing well for the Cs.

Melo is a project, develop him and maybe in a year or two he can contribute or be useful as a trade chip. Courtney Lee can be traded for something useful right now, why dumping him as salary filler?

Getting rid of bad contracts is high priority, but you don't need to rush it. Right now the Cs need to do something with Randolph before his contract becomes guaranteed, and they should be looking to send Humphries for a TPE and a second round pick. If any trade involving Lee and/or Bass can bring TPEs/picks/young players, you do it in a second. But you don't send your best player for cap relief and a couple uncertain picks.

By the way, Cuban makes out like a bandit in this trade scenario.

[rondoallaturca]

I don't really think there's any star player in the NBA that wants to play with Rondo bad enough that they'd be willing to come to Boston.

Why? Is Boston overrun with zombies? Does everyone have AIDS? Seriously, I don't understand the ridiculous belief that free agents don't want to come to Boston. If I was forced to relocate to somewhere else in America, it would be Boston. I mean, I realize I'm not a professional athlete with money to blow, but I'm in their age group and Boston is just fine for me.

[celtsjunky]

So in the logic everyone is trying to sell we will not be in the top five in the 2014 draft if we don't make any trades to get worse.  In that scenario can someone give me a couple of players not named Durant/James that would give us a team that could on paper can challenge Miami, OKC, Houston.  That we realistically have a shot at?  I didn't see a combination of players that we could have a chance at.

[RJ87]

I wouldn't call two first round picks nothing and dumping Wallace's salary.  We are not going to be able to sign a max contract with that salary on board.

And what max caliber player will come here to play by themselves?

Rondo is our only All-Star (unless Jeff has a breakout year), a roster with him would be far more attractive than one without him. Stars want to play with other stars.

I don't really think there's any star player in the NBA that wants to play with Rondo bad enough that they'd be willing to come to Boston.

We can agree to disagree.

I think an important thing to look at is someone like KG.  KG didn't want to come to Boston.  Once he had been here a couple years, he didn't want to leave.

And I think that is where Danny needs to be focussing (and I think it where he IS focussing).  Not free agents, but on star players who are being shopped by their teams.  Guys who you will take a chance on not resigning when their contract is up, but who you can sell on the city, the organization, and the basketball situation, once they are on the team.

That is why Danny traded for expiring contracts and draft picks before.  But that is also why he needs to maintain Rondo as an asset, or as a player to convince guys to stay, if he is not blown away with an offer for a young, potential star.

Well that kind of goes back to my point: KG didn't want to come to Boston and be on a team with just Paul Pierce - a playoff caliber team, not necessarily a contender. Once we traded for Ray, KG changed his tune. Look at D12, a year and a half ago his reps were telling Houston he resign with them if they traded for him, then they traded for James Harden and look at where they are now. You need talent to attract talent, whether it's by signing an FA or by trading for a disgruntled star. Guys don't want to widdle away on rosters full of "promising" talent anymore.

[Moranis]

I don't really think there's any star player in the NBA that wants to play with Rondo bad enough that they'd be willing to come to Boston.

Why? Is Boston overrun with zombies? Does everyone have AIDS? Seriously, I don't understand the ridiculous belief that free agents don't want to come to Boston. If I was forced to relocate to somewhere else in America, it would be Boston. I mean, I realize I'm not a professional athlete with money to blow, but I'm in their age group and Boston is just fine for me.

High taxes, horrible winters, less outside income possibilities, etc.  If I'm a 25 year old millionaire, I'd much rather play in Miami than Boston.  I mean the no state income tax alone would be huge, add in the great winter weather, the better night life, etc. and it really is a no-brainer.

[Chris]

I wouldn't call two first round picks nothing and dumping Wallace's salary.  We are not going to be able to sign a max contract with that salary on board.

And what max caliber player will come here to play by themselves?

Rondo is our only All-Star (unless Jeff has a breakout year), a roster with him would be far more attractive than one without him. Stars want to play with other stars.

I don't really think there's any star player in the NBA that wants to play with Rondo bad enough that they'd be willing to come to Boston.

We can agree to disagree.

I think an important thing to look at is someone like KG.  KG didn't want to come to Boston.  Once he had been here a couple years, he didn't want to leave.

And I think that is where Danny needs to be focussing (and I think it where he IS focussing).  Not free agents, but on star players who are being shopped by their teams.  Guys who you will take a chance on not resigning when their contract is up, but who you can sell on the city, the organization, and the basketball situation, once they are on the team.

That is why Danny traded for expiring contracts and draft picks before.  But that is also why he needs to maintain Rondo as an asset, or as a player to convince guys to stay, if he is not blown away with an offer for a young, potential star.

Well that kind of goes back to my point: KG didn't want to come to Boston and be on a team with just Paul Pierce - a playoff caliber team, not necessarily a contender. Once we traded for Ray, KG changed his tune. Look at D12, a year and a half ago his reps were telling Houston he resign with them if they traded for him, then they traded for James Harden and look at where they are now. You need talent to attract talent, whether it's by signing an FA or by trading for a disgruntled star. Guys don't want to widdle away on rosters full of "promising" talent anymore.

That's fine.  But the C's aren't looking at just one trade here.  They are collecting a ton of assets, of which, Rondo remains their most valuable one.  And you don't trade your most valuable asset for pennies. 

[rondoallaturca]

High taxes, horrible winters, less outside income possibilities, etc.  If I'm a 25 year old millionaire, I'd much rather play in Miami than Boston.  I mean the no state income tax alone would be huge, add in the great winter weather, the better night life, etc. and it really is a no-brainer.

The money factor I get, but if a professional basketball player has night life and weather at the top of his priorities, I wouldn't want him playing for my team anyway.

Besides, the most important thing is that to this date, there's absolutely no concrete evidence to back up the idea that Boston is an unattractive destination. It's not like we're like Dallas and struck and missed out on both Deron and Dwight. We wanted Terry, and we got him. We wanted Lee, and we got him.

Meanwhile, the only significant free agents we've lost in the past few years are Tony Allen and Ray Allen, neither of which were due to your aforementioned reasons.

[JSD]

I have been reading a lot about Portland and LMA trades rumors.  I think we can take advantage of this to dump some salaries and get draft picks.  Although I'm not in favor of getting rid of Rondo I think if you are going to "tank" you need to do it by getting rid of salaries and getting as many draft picks as possible.  The is trade checker out in Realgm http://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/6323294

PTLD gets:

Greg Monroe
Courtney Lee
Jordan Crawford
Fab Melo
First round pick from Dallas

Dallas gets:

LMA

Detroit gets:

Rondo
Gerald Wallace

Boston gets:

Rodney Stuckey
Charlie Villanueva
Shawn Marion
First round pick from Dallas
Conditional first round pick from Detroit (conditional due to the previous trade with Charlotte)

Dallas dets a big man
Detroit gets Rondo
Portland gets a younger replacement big
Boston gets worse for "tanking", draft picks and salary flexibility for free agency next year and beyond.  $20M committed for the 2014 season

Again I'm not in favor of giving up Rondo but I think it is clear we are going after draft picks and salary cap flexibility.

All we get for Rondo, a bonafide superstar in this league, is cap space and a couple crappy 1st rounders?

[celtsjunky]

High taxes, horrible winters, less outside income possibilities, etc.  If I'm a 25 year old millionaire, I'd much rather play in Miami than Boston.  I mean the no state income tax alone would be huge, add in the great winter weather, the better night life, etc. and it really is a no-brainer.

The money factor I get, but if a professional basketball player has night life and weather at the top of his priorities, I wouldn't want him playing for my team anyway.

Besides, the most important thing is that to this date, there's absolutely no concrete evidence to back up the idea that Boston is an unattractive destination. It's not like we're like Dallas and struck and missed out on both Deron and Dwight. We wanted Terry, and we got him. We wanted Lee, and we got him.

Meanwhile, the only significant free agents we've lost in the past few years are Tony Allen and Ray Allen, neither of which were due to your aforementioned reasons.

Are you comparing Lee/Terry to Williams/D12?   Those guys didn't want to be second to Dirk.  I hope that Lee and Terry are not the legit type talent Rondo is going to lure to Boston.  I will give everyone that trading Rondo for nothing is not worth it.  However if the best you can muster by keeping Rondo is a second round and exit type team for years that is not worth keeping him just to not go to the bottom for a couple of years. 


In someways I'm playing devils advocate in that I love Rondo and I think that he is very entertaining to watch,  but I don't see a combination of players that can realistically be put together in the next three years (rondo's prime) that can compete for a title.  This was started as a trade idea and I agree I don't want to trade rondo for nothing, but I also don't think the way to go is the rebuild on the fly approach.  I think this time around the celtics should go for the lottery which means maybe sitting rondo out until he 100% which would most likely land us in the lottery.  The last thing I want to see the celtics do it bring in a mediocre FA.

[rondoallaturca]

Are you comparing Lee/Terry to Williams/D12?   Those guys didn't want to be second to Dirk.  I hope that Lee and Terry are not the legit type talent Rondo is going to lure to Boston.  I will give everyone that trading Rondo for nothing is not worth it.  However if the best you can muster by keeping Rondo is a second round and exit type team for years that is not worth keeping him just to not go to the bottom for a couple of years. 


In someways I'm playing devils advocate in that I love Rondo and I think that he is very entertaining to watch,  but I don't see a combination of players that can realistically be put together in the next three years (rondo's prime) that can compete for a title.  This was started as a trade idea and I agree I don't want to trade rondo for nothing, but I also don't think the way to go is the rebuild on the fly approach.  I think this time around the celtics should go for the lottery which means maybe sitting rondo out until he 100% which would most likely land us in the lottery.  The last thing I want to see the celtics do it bring in a mediocre FA.

Of course I'm not comparing Terry/Lee to top-tier superstars. However, they were some of the best players available given our financial situation and roster makeup, and we made it happen. Keep in mind that Lee could've gotten a far better role if he decided to go elsewhere.

I do agree with you that Boston should be looking at the draft to acquire talent this year. However, I don't think we should do it at the expense of trading Rondo just to move up a couple spots.

[JSD]

Meanwhile, the only significant free agents we've lost in the past few years are Tony Allen and Ray Allen, neither of which were due to your aforementioned reasons.

Ray Allen's obsession with golf was said to be a contributing factor in his departure.

[Moranis]

High taxes, horrible winters, less outside income possibilities, etc.  If I'm a 25 year old millionaire, I'd much rather play in Miami than Boston.  I mean the no state income tax alone would be huge, add in the great winter weather, the better night life, etc. and it really is a no-brainer.

The money factor I get, but if a professional basketball player has night life and weather at the top of his priorities, I wouldn't want him playing for my team anyway.

Besides, the most important thing is that to this date, there's absolutely no concrete evidence to back up the idea that Boston is an unattractive destination. It's not like we're like Dallas and struck and missed out on both Deron and Dwight. We wanted Terry, and we got him. We wanted Lee, and we got him.

Meanwhile, the only significant free agents we've lost in the past few years are Tony Allen and Ray Allen, neither of which were due to your aforementioned reasons.

Below freezing weather, snow, etc. are not pleasant to drive in, work in, etc.  Especially for guys with wives and kids.  Weather matters.  And this isn't baseball where the season is during the summer or even the NFL where you aren't there the whole time.  The NBA season is all of the crappy weather and very little of the good weather.  So much nicer being able to take the kids to the beach, park, etc. on an off day. 

[celtsjunky]

Are you comparing Lee/Terry to Williams/D12?   Those guys didn't want to be second to Dirk.  I hope that Lee and Terry are not the legit type talent Rondo is going to lure to Boston.  I will give everyone that trading Rondo for nothing is not worth it.  However if the best you can muster by keeping Rondo is a second round and exit type team for years that is not worth keeping him just to not go to the bottom for a couple of years. 


In someways I'm playing devils advocate in that I love Rondo and I think that he is very entertaining to watch,  but I don't see a combination of players that can realistically be put together in the next three years (rondo's prime) that can compete for a title.  This was started as a trade idea and I agree I don't want to trade rondo for nothing, but I also don't think the way to go is the rebuild on the fly approach.  I think this time around the celtics should go for the lottery which means maybe sitting rondo out until he 100% which would most likely land us in the lottery.  The last thing I want to see the celtics do it bring in a mediocre FA.

Of course I'm not comparing Terry/Lee to top-tier superstars. However, they were some of the best players available given our financial situation and roster makeup, and we made it happen. Keep in mind that Lee could've gotten a far better role if he decided to go elsewhere.

I do agree with you that Boston should be looking at the draft to acquire talent this year. However, I don't think we should do it at the expense of trading Rondo just to move up a couple spots.

Agreed!  I just see a lot of trade ideas bring back guys that are either almost max guys that will get you no where but middle of the pack or guys that will be looking to get paid that in my opinion aren't worth what they will be looking for.  In a perfect world for me we sit Rondo and let him heal completely.  Hopefully get a pick we shouldn't due to a lucky lottery ball and continue to build with young pieces.  And not rush this thing along.