Bad for the NBA! (Brooklyn Nets)

[Chris.J]

Yeah, the Nets aren't circumventing the CBA at all. In fact, I'd argue that they aren't even going against the spirit of the CBA, which was always about profits over parity.

No it wasn't! Tell the small market owners that pushed like crazy to put really punitive actions against continual Luxury Tax violators. Tell that to all the max free agents out there who are now having to sign 12 million dollar contracts instead of 30 Million Dollar contracts (Kobe). Of course the new CBA is about Parity. it is clear most teams are being very cautious about it.

Um .. for every bit of salary that Prokhorov spends over the luxury tax limit, he has to pay a boat load of luxury tax money.

Do you know who gets shares of the money?   The 'small market teams' who are not tax payers.

They don't mind getting those checks at all.

That is a good point, but it still does not change the fact that he is doing things that the majority of teams in this league cannot do, hence it puts the majority of those teams at a disadvantage.

[chambers]

The Nets are better but they are still not good enough to win the whole thing. He is spending a ton of money that will be getting him nowhere but EFC at best. In a few years they are going to be lousy.

Am I missing something? - They definitely have a legit shot this year. I mean with the kirilenko signing they are a top 4 or 5 team period. The bench is beter then Miami's. The starting five is the best in the league.

I agree for the most part. Their size is the key.
Evrryone is tallen then average for their position and they have plenty of 3 point shooting in Pierce, deron, johnson and kirilenko. I wwouldn't be surprised if they got some more firepower from behind the arc too. His wallet is endless and the other owners get more money too.
I think its great for the league.

I also forgot about Terry's shooting too.
Very tough squad come playoff time.
People are forgrtting how KG, Pierce and Terry will change that lockerroom.

[Chris.J]

The Nets are better but they are still not good enough to win the whole thing. He is spending a ton of money that will be getting him nowhere but EFC at best. In a few years they are going to be lousy.

Am I missing something? - They definitely have a legit shot this year. I mean with the kirilenko signing they are a top 4 or 5 team period. The bench is beter then Miami's. The starting five is the best in the league.

Am I missing something? Did LeBron James or any other top-10 player join the Nets when I wasn't paying attention?

Do you not agree that that is one of the best starting fives in the league? Do you not agree that the reason they are able to have such a starting five is because they are able to go beyond the CBA to a point that almost all the other teams can't follow?  I mean how can anyone say they are not legit contenders for a title this year? How did they do this? Look at the starting fives salaries and tell me honestly that any other team in the league could do this?

I think its a very good starting 5. Does it take them into a guaranteed top-3 seed? Nope. Not with Pierce/Garnett/Johnson's aging and deteriorating games, and Brook Lopez's injury concerns. Is Prokorhov going to not have to pay out the money somehow? Nope...he's gonna have to.

And if it doesn't work, will NJ be absurdly screwed well into the re-election campaign of the next president? Yup. Without question.

Also, you might want to read this:

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/61220/luxury-tax-good-days-coming-end

Master P is going to be paying out well over $100 million dollars in tax payments alone next year.

Rocky IV was the best movie about America defeating Russia through sports (this is not debatable). David Stern, through mundane bureaucracy has secured 100 million from a russian interloper to be reinvested back into my favorite sport to watch.

David Stern>Rocky?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzDDJm27vmc

Thanks for the laugh - that was hilarious - seriously.

We will just have to agree to disagree on...... pretty much everything you just said.

I am too tired right now though to go through a point by point breakdown. I am drifting off to night night land now.

[D.o.s.]

Yeah, the Nets aren't circumventing the CBA at all. In fact, I'd argue that they aren't even going against the spirit of the CBA, which was always about profits over parity.

No it wasn't! Tell the small market owners that pushed like crazy to put really punitive actions against continual Luxury Tax violators. Tell that to all the max free agents out there who are now having to sign 12 million dollar contracts instead of 30 Million Dollar contracts (Kobe). Of course the new CBA is about Parity. it is clear most teams are being very cautious about it.

Um .. for every bit of salary that Prokhorov spends over the luxury tax limit, he has to pay a boat load of luxury tax money.

Do you know who gets shares of the money?   The 'small market teams' who are not tax payers.

They don't mind getting those checks at all.

That is a good point, but it still does not change the fact that he is doing things that the majority of teams in this league cannot do, hence it puts the majority of those teams at a disadvantage.

There's no reason the other teams couldn't do the same thing.

Whether they think it's a smart business position is a different proposition.

Go back and look at the differences between the old CBA and the current rule set:

-Shorter Maximum Contracts.
-Decreased ability to sign and trade.
-More incentives laid at the table of the original team. (there's a reason Dwight forswore 30 million dollars when he bailed on the Lakers).
-More percentage of total revenue to the ownership.

The CBA was never about parity--that was a talking point for a bunch of insanely rich men trying to pay other not-nearly-as rich men less.

[Chris.J]

First off the majority of NBA owners cannot do what he is doing. There is a big difference between Dan Gilbert Money and Mikhail Prokhorov Money (there is a joke in there somewhere)

Also do the breakdown as to how much each team will get from revenue sharing. I might be wrong but after the league takes 50% or something and you split it among all the other non tax payers it is not nearly as big as you would think. Certainly not enough to offset the advantage Prokhorov has by being able to spend so much.

[mmmmm]

First off the majority of NBA owners cannot do what he is doing. There is a big difference between Dan Gilbert Money and Mikhail Prokhorov Money (there is a joke in there somewhere)

Also do the breakdown as to how much each team will get from revenue sharing. I might be wrong but after the league takes 50% or something and you split it among all the other non tax payers it is not nearly as big as you would think. Certainly not enough to offset the advantage Prokhorov has by being able to spend so much.

That's irrelevant.   The point is, Gilbert gets free money every time Prokhorov spends like a mad man.   Gilbert doesn't have to do anything.   If he's wise, he saves that money and if he wants, he can in turn, spend it on his own team.

And the cold hard fact is, there ARE limits to just how much Prokhorov CAN spend.  As I detailed in my earlier post, once you are up against the apron, you can't simply spend anymore willy nilly.

[Rondohara]

More money in the NBA is better for the league. If the money went to other sports/leagues instead of there it wouldn't make the NBA any better. And the tax already "distributes" the money to the teams that don't spend much.

[gar]

Kirlenko is getting all kinds of side deals out of this one. No way he is just getting mini-mid (whatever that is). That is the only part that is not fair. That and the fact that Prokorov probably held half of his family for ransom till be signed.

Should have seen this one coming. Hope they give Miami a good fight.

[D.o.s.]

First off the majority of NBA owners cannot do what he is doing. There is a big difference between Dan Gilbert Money and Mikhail Prokhorov Money (there is a joke in there somewhere)

Also do the breakdown as to how much each team will get from revenue sharing. I might be wrong but after the league takes 50% or something and you split it among all the other non tax payers it is not nearly as big as you would think. Certainly not enough to offset the advantage Prokhorov has by being able to spend so much.

That's irrelevant.   The point is, Gilbert gets free money every time Prokhorov spends like a mad man.   Gilbert doesn't have to do anything.   If he's wise, he saves that money and if he wants, he can in turn, spend it on his own team.

And the cold hard fact is, there ARE limits to just how much Prokhorov CAN spend.  As I detailed in my earlier post, once you are up against the apron, you can't simply spend anymore willy nilly.

TP, you've detailed it quite nicely.

[guava_wrench]

Do you not agree that that is one of the best starting fives in the league? Do you not agree that the reason they are able to have such a starting five is because they are able to go beyond the CBA to a point that almost all the other teams can't follow?  I mean how can anyone say they are not legit contenders for a title this year? How did they do this? Look at the starting fives salaries and tell me honestly that any other team in the league could do this?

You sound confused. They did not go "beyond the CBA", because that phrase means absolutely nothing. They are going beyond the salary cap, but they are far from the first team to do so. The Lakers had ridiculous salary last year. The Knicks under Isiah spent crazy amounts. Both those teams lost a lot. Cuban used to spend freely and they didn't go far in the playoffs back then.

The reason the Nets can field that starting 5 is that they gave up 3 first round picks for guys who might only play one more season. Any team could have made this move.

I don't understand how a person can be bothered just because a team is a contender. The Nets made real sacrifices to get old guys on their team. They went all in for a chance to win this year or next. Good for them, though they are still underdogs.

[guava_wrench]

First off the majority of NBA owners cannot do what he is doing. There is a big difference between Dan Gilbert Money and Mikhail Prokhorov Money (there is a joke in there somewhere)

Also do the breakdown as to how much each team will get from revenue sharing. I might be wrong but after the league takes 50% or something and you split it among all the other non tax payers it is not nearly as big as you would think. Certainly not enough to offset the advantage Prokhorov has by being able to spend so much.

Paul Allen is richer than Prokhorov. There was a time when he spent a lot of money. Remember the Jail Blazers?

[guava_wrench]

That is a good point, but it still does not change the fact that he is doing things that the majority of teams in this league cannot do, hence it puts the majority of those teams at a disadvantage.

Old news. Was the same situation before he joined the league and became the second (not first) richest owner.

If you want more money, move to a bigger market. That is the reality of sports. That is why it costs more to buy big market teams.

I don't have a problem with this since big market makes more money because there is more fan support due to their being more fans. As big market teams win, more fans are happy and interested in the sport. As small market teams win, less fans enjoy the sport and the league makes less money.

[LooseCannon]

Do you not agree that that is one of the best starting fives in the league? Do you not agree that the reason they are able to have such a starting five is because they are able to go beyond the CBA to a point that almost all the other teams can't follow?  I mean how can anyone say they are not legit contenders for a title this year? How did they do this? Look at the starting fives salaries and tell me honestly that any other team in the league could do this?

The Lakers would have had a more expensive starting five if Dwight Howard had stayed.  The Celtics could have looked similar if they had kept Perkins, handed him a big contract, then moved him and maybe Ray Allen in deals for a younger shooting guard and a more offensive-minded big man.

The Nets were built in a perfectly normal way.

In the summer of 2012, they had a small payroll with a lot of flexibility because they were hoping to go after Dwight Howard.  Instead, they re-sign Deron Williams and Gerald Wallace and trade a package of mostly expiring contracts for Joe Johnson.  At some point, they have about six players under contract and cap holds for a couple of guys they plan on bringing back.  This leaves them the MLE to sign Mirza Teletovic and a bench they have to fill out with veteran minimum and rookie scale contract guys.  This is why they were so desperate to hang on to Marshon Brooks in the Joe Johnson trade.

What allows them so much flexibility is that Brook Lopez has a relatively small cap hold that they plan on greatly exceeding.  The Nets are fortunate that this happens to coincide with a summer of acquisitions, so they can make deals before signing Lopez.

The Nets overpay for both Lopez and Humphries to effectively create salary slots.  Humphries was signed with the intention of having him be an expiring contract who could be moved for better player.  His salary allowed him to be moved straight up (with draft picks) for a $15m guy.  Lopez was signed for enough so that he could be used in a trade for a max-salary guy, like Dwight Howard.  If the Nets don't pay Humphries, they don't have the matching salary to send out for Pierce and Garnett. 

This comes with a price.  The Nets have put themselves in a situation where they will have difficulty building a bench.  They've gotten lucky with Kirilenko for the mini-MLE, but they will run into problems if they have to deal with injuries.  They're capped out for a while and they don't have very many draft picks.

Ultimately, it's a soft cap, not a hard cap, so it is not circumventing the CBA to have an insane payroll with a huge luxury tax bill.

[tarheelsxxiii]

TP LooseCannon.

Aren't vet min contracts allowed beyond the cap? If so, what keeps them from filling out with solid vets looking for a chip?

Edit: From the other thread, looks like they're already a solid 14 deep...

[LarBrd33]

And at some point, the Nets will end up in the position that the Lakers are now.

That'd be nice... we own their 2014, 2016 and 2018 picks... with an option to swap picks with them in 2017.  Let's hope the whole thing blows up in their face.