Author Topic: Was Melo really that bad yesterday?  (Read 4972 times)

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Was Melo really that bad yesterday?
« on: July 08, 2013, 12:43:09 PM »

Offline ScoobyDoo

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I thought Melo looked pretty decent yesterday.

1. Showed very good lateral quickness for a guy his size.

2. Speaking of size, the guy is huge

3. Had 9 points, 9 boards and a block, affected some other shots.

4. When he lays a body on someone he eats up a lot of space.

I'm cautiously optimistic - he's made 'some" progress and I'm curious to see how much more progress he can make a under a new coach.

If he can:

1. Learn to turn, lock and box out his guy like he breaths

2. Learn how to hold his ground in the paint on both ends of the floor

3. Keep his hands high and active on D

I think he could become a 'decent" defensive and rebounding center for us.

I also think he has decent offensive ability - if still very raw. But he has a soft jump hook and decent form on his jump shot and his foul shot.   

Re: Was Melo really that bad yesterday?
« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2013, 12:45:46 PM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

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His big problem is awareness, and he was horrible in the first half. Did a bit better in the second half both defensively and offensively. I particularly like when Olynyk set him up 2 plays in a row or so from the top of the key.

But in all, yes, he was bad. One can see he's still quite raw, particularly on how the game is played, just very hard to evaluate where he goes from here because he has some good physical tools and athleticism to work with.

Re: Was Melo really that bad yesterday?
« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2013, 12:50:10 PM »

Offline clover

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I think you're both right.  Reading both of your posts I see a recognition of how limited his level of game understanding.  If he can identify a simple task--box out, get the rebound, catch the pass and put the ball in the basket--he can execute that fairly well.  But being a precise contributor in complex defensive schemes or passing out effectively on offense?  That's probably still a ways off.

Re: Was Melo really that bad yesterday?
« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2013, 01:02:58 PM »

Offline Chief

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Hopefully the new coach and staff can teach these kids how to play basketball better than the River's group.
Once you are labeled 'the best' you want to stay up there, and you can't do it by loafing around.
 
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Re: Was Melo really that bad yesterday?
« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2013, 01:14:19 PM »

Offline erisred

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Hopefully the new coach and staff can teach these kids how to play basketball better than the River's group.
I think that is part of the reason Stevens was hired...because he and his assistants have proven to be very good at taking average to poor basketball recruits and teaching them the skills needed to be successful. The C's have several guys with more physical abilities than anybody Stevens has had on his team, ever.

I think the hope is that he can take Olynyk (with one real year of work as a big man) and Melo and develop their skills. In Melo's case see if he can train up his instincts.

Also, maybe work on guys like Brooks and Crawford and turn them into smarter, team-oriented basketball players. I mean, both Brooks and Crawford have the physical abilities to be excellent offensive *and* defensive guards, but neither are...mostly because of deficits between their ears. They aren't dumb, though, and could learn if they are approached right and motivated.

Re: Was Melo really that bad yesterday?
« Reply #5 on: July 08, 2013, 01:15:15 PM »

Offline tarheelsxxiii

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Didn't catch the game and see what progress he has made...

Does it look like his difficulty is related to attention (in general), bball IQ, or just keeping up with the pace of the game, in general?

Think I'd only remain optimistic if it were the latter.
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Re: Was Melo really that bad yesterday?
« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2013, 01:16:24 PM »

Offline sofutomygaha

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So- here's my question about Fab Melo. Every time I watch him, he is on the losing end of some embarrassment, and yet he posts a good +/- and he was all-defense for the D-League last year.

I think he's terrible because every time I look at him, he does something totally weak.

Is this a Jack Wilson effect? Jack Wilson is the guy who always played the best defense by making everything look routine, but he never made web gem plays. Derrick Jeter, on the other hand, makes all the flashy plays but is a terrible overall defensive player.

Is Fab Melo quietly doing all the right things? Is Fab Melo a seven foot Jack Wilson and I'm just not seeing it?

Re: Was Melo really that bad yesterday?
« Reply #7 on: July 08, 2013, 01:25:37 PM »

Offline aingeforthree

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I thought Melo looked pretty decent yesterday.

1. Showed very good lateral quickness for a guy his size.

2. Speaking of size, the guy is huge

3. Had 9 points, 9 boards and a block, affected some other shots.

4. When he lays a body on someone he eats up a lot of space.

I'm cautiously optimistic - he's made 'some" progress and I'm curious to see how much more progress he can make a under a new coach.

If he can:

1. Learn to turn, lock and box out his guy like he breaths

2. Learn how to hold his ground in the paint on both ends of the floor

3. Keep his hands high and active on D

I think he could become a 'decent" defensive and rebounding center for us.

I also think he has decent offensive ability - if still very raw. But he has a soft jump hook and decent form on his jump shot and his foul shot.

No, he wasn't as bad as people were stating.  You nailed it on the head with him.  Great post.

Overall, I saw improvement from him since last years Summer League.  He's just got to keep putting in the work year after year.  We won't entirely know what we have until 3-4 years down the road, & we should be willing to wait (although most fans will not and overreact like they did with Perkins, etc.)

Re: Was Melo really that bad yesterday?
« Reply #8 on: July 08, 2013, 01:26:54 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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Difference between olynyk and melo is mental quickness. Olynyk is decisive, confident while melo is the total opposite. He needed to dunk those two gimmes underneath the basket.

In college he wasnt like this. I guess he can thank and curse boheim due to his zone defense system

Re: Was Melo really that bad yesterday?
« Reply #9 on: July 08, 2013, 01:35:22 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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Hopefully the new coach and staff can teach these kids how to play basketball better than the River's group.
I was planning to comment on this, but ultimately it is just too funny.
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."

Re: Was Melo really that bad yesterday?
« Reply #10 on: July 08, 2013, 01:41:57 PM »

Offline Jon Niednagel

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I'm skeptical of Melo. He needs to work on strengthening his body and improving his coordination and balance. His gait when he runs the floor is weird, and he is often bent over unusually far at the waist instead crouching at the knees. He gets pushed around too easily in the paint for someone his size, and he is far too easily overmatched for rebounds. Some of his rebounding woes seem to be due to his poor "hands," but much of it is simply poor anticipation and getting knocked off balance too easily. I'm actually quite pleased with his scoring touch around the rim when he is left reasonably open, but he is terrible scoring in traffic and his release is too slow allowing others to recover quickly on him. With the exception of his ability to block shots, which I think is his main NBA ability, the rest of his skill set just seems a step slow. From my laymen perspective, I think his best shot to make it is to concentrate on building up his strength and his core balance. If he can do that, say to a Mark Blount level, I'd be a lot more confident that he'll turn into something serviceable. I'm less worried about his slow anticipation on the court at this point, as I think that will come around with more experience.
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Re: Was Melo really that bad yesterday?
« Reply #11 on: July 08, 2013, 01:49:23 PM »

Offline aingeforthree

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Some of you need to lay off Melo a bit.  Realize where he came from, what he's adjusting to, etc.  We all want immediate results but when you've played as little basketball as him, played in a zone system virtually your entire career, you're not going to have the IQ of Bird, etc. immediately against NBA competition.  You need a couple years to learn the game, system, NBA, etc.

It's going to be a long learning process for FAB.  Most on here are judging him from a finished product standpoint.  Why ?  Judge him 3/4 years down the road.

If he's willing to put in the work, which most are stating that he is, than why not wait ?  He's got the ability to at the very least be a solid 10-15 minute backup guy who will be a presence inside.

I look immediately for the improvements based on last years limited play when I watch these games.  Immediately what jumped out at me yesterday ?  He seemed more athletic going for rebounds than the year prior.  He lost some, don't get me wrong, & he still needs to improve, but there were substantial differences based on last years limited time in action.

Re: Was Melo really that bad yesterday?
« Reply #12 on: July 08, 2013, 01:50:49 PM »

Offline erisred

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So- here's my question about Fab Melo. Every time I watch him, he is on the losing end of some embarrassment, and yet he posts a good +/- and he was all-defense for the D-League last year.

I think he's terrible because every time I look at him, he does something totally weak.

Is this a Jack Wilson effect? Jack Wilson is the guy who always played the best defense by making everything look routine, but he never made web gem plays. Derrick Jeter, on the other hand, makes all the flashy plays but is a terrible overall defensive player.

Is Fab Melo quietly doing all the right things? Is Fab Melo a seven foot Jack Wilson and I'm just not seeing it?
Melo is wildly inconsistent...that's what he is.

He makes some spectacularly dumb looking plays, air-balling a hook shot, getting blocked by a guard because he doesn't go up strong on a dunk, passing into the back of an opposing player instead of one of his team mates. He also *looks* almost spastic jumping out to challenge, or going *way* outside to set a pick and then in both cases scrambling like mad to get back in the paint. Melo will rush to one side of the court to challenge a shot, then turn and rush to the other to try to get position on his man.

Then he makes an occasional great play, even two or three in a row, and you see his potential. Smooth hook shot, great position and rebound on defense, followed by a quick cut to the basket for a dunk on an interior pass. The good/great plays appeared to be increasing in frequency in D-League during Dec/Jan, then he got hurt and they fell off when he came back. Yesterday, both good and bad were in evidence.

However, when he isn't playing the Little Girl with the Curl (you know when she was good, she was very good but when she was bad she was awful) he seems to be quietly solid on defense. On offense, he sets screens and attempts to rebound. He has a long way to go there, too, but he seems to be improving on getting/keeping position. I also notice him moving out of his area to grab a rebound or two yesterday.

There are three things Melo does that absolutely flumux me. These are things I've seen from him in college, last year, this year. If he fixes these 3 he would get minutes even if he never improves anywhere else.

One, in many cases he doesn't try to catch a rebound...he punches the ball. He looks like a soccer goalie punching a shot away from the basket. If he was punching it to a team mate, that would be one thing, but he isn't his just punching it away and it usually ends up in the other team's hands.

Two, he plays "excuse me" ball when he tries to rebound. He'll get his hands on the ball, but if *anybody*...team mate or opponent can get their hands on the ball, too, *they* will come away with it. This is an attitude thing. Good rebounders are selfish and aggressive..."that ball is mine, *every* ball is mine! Get the hell away from it, it's mine!" Melo is more like, "Oh, okay, it's yours." He has got to *take* all the 50/50 balls, rip them out of any and everybody's hands.

That leads to three, he's just too darn nice. He doesn't seem to ever get mad or even really aggressive. Heck, Melo is huge, he would scare the heck out of the average guy just standing there, but do you think he scares *anybody* on the court? I don't want him to be mean, but he needs to whack a few people, throw a hip or two, shove somebody out of the way, get into someone and challenge them. If he would do that, be aggressive, even occasionally it would improve his effectiveness on the floor by 50%!

Re: Was Melo really that bad yesterday?
« Reply #13 on: July 08, 2013, 01:54:18 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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Some of you need to lay off Melo a bit.  Realize where he came from, what he's adjusting to, etc.  We all want immediate results but when you've played as little basketball as him, played in a zone system virtually your entire career, you're not going to have the IQ of Bird, etc. immediately against NBA competition.  You need a couple years to learn the game, system, NBA, etc.

It's going to be a long learning process for FAB.  Most on here are judging him from a finished product standpoint.  Why ?  Judge him 3/4 years down the road.

If he's willing to put in the work, which most are stating that he is, than why not wait ?  He's got the ability to at the very least be a solid 10-15 minute backup guy who will be a presence inside.

I look immediately for the improvements based on last years limited play when I watch these games.  Immediately what jumped out at me yesterday ?  He seemed more athletic going for rebounds than the year prior.  He lost some, don't get me wrong, & he still needs to improve, but there were substantial differences based on last years limited time in action.
So what you're saying is that we won't be able to tell whether he's an NBA contributor until he's 27 or so? In this case, I'd ditch the project right away, it's just not worth the investment.

A common trend in promising players (and we've had some of these, think Delonte West, Tony Allen, Glen Davis, Leon Powe, even Rondo) is that even though they're far from a finished product initially, they usually a useful way to contribute. If we have to wait for 3 years for Melo to get to this stage, that's not a good return on investment.
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."

Re: Was Melo really that bad yesterday?
« Reply #14 on: July 08, 2013, 01:56:33 PM »

Offline aingeforthree

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Some of you need to lay off Melo a bit.  Realize where he came from, what he's adjusting to, etc.  We all want immediate results but when you've played as little basketball as him, played in a zone system virtually your entire career, you're not going to have the IQ of Bird, etc. immediately against NBA competition.  You need a couple years to learn the game, system, NBA, etc.

It's going to be a long learning process for FAB.  Most on here are judging him from a finished product standpoint.  Why ?  Judge him 3/4 years down the road.

If he's willing to put in the work, which most are stating that he is, than why not wait ?  He's got the ability to at the very least be a solid 10-15 minute backup guy who will be a presence inside.

I look immediately for the improvements based on last years limited play when I watch these games.  Immediately what jumped out at me yesterday ?  He seemed more athletic going for rebounds than the year prior.  He lost some, don't get me wrong, & he still needs to improve, but there were substantial differences based on last years limited time in action.
So what you're saying is that we won't be able to tell whether he's an NBA contributor until he's 27 or so? In this case, I'd ditch the project right away, it's just not worth the investment.

A common trend in promising players (and we've had some of these, think Delonte West, Tony Allen, Glen Davis, Leon Powe, even Rondo) is that even though they're far from a finished product initially, they usually a useful way to contribute. If we have to wait for 3 years for Melo to get to this stage, that's not a good return on investment.

I'd say more like 25 actually.  A year after next.  You won't be ditching that type of project based on his age.