Author Topic: Bill Simmons  (Read 9188 times)

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Offline nostar

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Bill Simmons
« on: June 28, 2013, 09:12:54 PM »
I have to be honest, I don't always agree with Bill Simmons but a lot of the stuff he's been saying about Doc is spot on. He has done some fence sitting and he's tried to bail out without catching any negative PR. Bill wasn't having any of that.

As a Celtics fan I really just want to know what happened. I want to know if Danny shipped Doc off to LA or if Doc told Danny he didn't want to coach the Celtics anymore and Danny made lemonade or something in the middle. I feel like everything I heard from Doc was ambiguous and felt like minced words. I also wanted Doc to make good on his promises. I'm a big fan keeping promises and while this is a business I don't think it has to be a dishonest one.

For the record I'm not mad at Doc at all. I think an unprotected 2015 pick from LAC is reasonable compensation and I totally understand the C's not wanting to pay $7M to a top caliber coach for rebuilding. I get the logistics. But, maybe like Simmons, I can't help but feel like Doc was trying to sell me my own stuff. It felt too slick and the facts conflicted just enough that it didn't taste good.

So thank you Bill Simmons. I'm not your biggest fan but I certainly respect your cynical Celtics love and I like when questionable behavior is called out for what it is.

Offline ThaPreacher

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Re: Bill Simmons
« Reply #1 on: June 28, 2013, 09:14:50 PM »
I have to be honest, I don't always agree with Bill Simmons but a lot of the stuff he's been saying about Doc is spot on. He has done some fence sitting and he's tried to bail out without catching any negative PR. Bill wasn't having any of that.

As a Celtics fan I really just want to know what happened. I want to know if Danny shipped Doc off to LA or if Doc told Danny he didn't want to coach the Celtics anymore and Danny made lemonade or something in the middle. I feel like everything I heard from Doc was ambiguous and felt like minced words. I also wanted Doc to make good on his promises. I'm a big fan keeping promises and while this is a business I don't think it has to be a dishonest one.

For the record I'm not mad at Doc at all. I think an unprotected 2015 pick from LAC is reasonable compensation and I totally understand the C's not wanting to pay $7M to a top caliber coach for rebuilding. I get the logistics. But, maybe like Simmons, I can't help but feel like Doc was trying to sell me my own stuff. It felt too slick and the facts conflicted just enough that it didn't taste good.

So thank you Bill Simmons. I'm not your biggest fan but I certainly respect your cynical Celtics love and I like when questionable behavior is called out for what it is.



TP. Well said. Spot On.
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Offline syfy9

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Re: Bill Simmons
« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2013, 09:16:54 PM »
I like Bill Simmons too. "The Book of Basketball" was a really good read.
Reclaiming the NBA Throne is easy.

All we need is a powerful beast that can soar up to the skies and lay waste on our enemies. One with potential to wreak havoc and strike fear. With such a mythical being, we can take back what is ours - with fire and blood.

I hear talk that such a beast is projected #1 overall in the 2014 draft.

Offline pearljammer10

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Re: Bill Simmons
« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2013, 09:22:46 PM »
I like Bill Simmons too. "The Book of Basketball" was a really good read.

TP for this. My favorite basketball read. I love Simmons he is so intelligent about the game, especially things related to the Celtics... Simmons for coach!! (Ok thats going a little far).
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Offline Yogi

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Re: Bill Simmons
« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2013, 09:29:05 PM »
I haven't read Bill Simmons book.  From everything I've heard from him and watched on TV, he knows very little about anything.  He is like a less intelligent Mike Felger or a more charismatic Skip Bayless.
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Offline nostar

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Re: Bill Simmons
« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2013, 09:37:28 PM »
I haven't read Bill Simmons book.  From everything I've heard from him and watched on TV, he knows very little about anything.  He is like a less intelligent Mike Felger or a more charismatic Skip Bayless.

I respectfully disagee. He's thoughtful and creative when talking about the game in a way that most pundits aren't. He doesn't have some silly song and dance (Steven A Smith), he's not a basketball god who just says the same 5 things on every broadcast (Magic Johnson, Shaq), and he's not trying desperately to keep his job by being congenial. I really respect that and that is why I tune in.

Also the Skip Bayless reference might count as libel, be careful :)

Offline Yogi

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Re: Bill Simmons
« Reply #6 on: June 28, 2013, 09:40:20 PM »
I haven't read Bill Simmons book.  From everything I've heard from him and watched on TV, he knows very little about anything.  He is like a less intelligent Mike Felger or a more charismatic Skip Bayless.

I respectfully disagee. He's thoughtful and creative when talking about the game in a way that most pundits aren't. He doesn't have some silly song and dance (Steven A Smith), he's not a basketball god who just says the same 5 things on every broadcast (Magic Johnson, Shaq), and he's not trying desperately to keep his job by being congenial. I really respect that and that is why I tune in.

Also the Skip Bayless reference might count as libel, be careful :)
Honestly I didn't feel either comparisons were appropriate for a family friendly site, but that's how I feel about BS.  What exactly does he know about basketball?  He was a fan for a long time?  So are a million others.  That doesn't make them an expert!
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Offline Kuberski33

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Re: Bill Simmons
« Reply #7 on: June 28, 2013, 10:05:27 PM »
Simmons knows and understands the game - not to the extent of guys who've worked or played in the league but he can hold his own talking the game with those guys.  He adds to it the fans perspective.  It's not an easy role to pull off but he's manged to do it.  Heck you have GMs like Darryl Morey and Ryan Mcdonough who I don't think even played college ball - why can't he do what he does? 

Offline Yogi

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Re: Bill Simmons
« Reply #8 on: June 28, 2013, 10:27:54 PM »
Simmons knows and understands the game - not to the extent of guys who've worked or played in the league but he can hold his own talking the game with those guys.  He adds to it the fans perspective.  It's not an easy role to pull off but he's manged to do it.  Heck you have GMs like Darryl Morey and Ryan Mcdonough who I don't think even played college ball - why can't he do what he does?

Morey has degrees in statistics and MBA.  He's a pioneer of sports statistics serving as a chairman for the MIT Sports Analytics conference.  His specialization landed him a job as a consultant.  His success there lead to a front office job, where once again his success lead to a GM job where he once again has proven to be incredibly successful. 

Ryan McDonnough comes from a family deeply involved in sports analysis.  He also has a decade of incredibly successful scouting with the Celtics (Rondo) and great deal of expertise in statistical analysis which lead to his current GM job.

Bill Simmons was an intern, who gained popularity by mouthing off his opinion on sports, which he has no experience in.  His writing style is filled with amateur analysis to outright guessing often filled with "humorous" attacks on sports figures.  His main popularity is creating sports memes and writing "funny" sports articles which makes him as much of an expert on sports as the Onion is on everything. Read his articles posted on this thread on Doc Rivers for his credibility.  Hilarious that he attacked a former coach of the year and called for his head who immediately won the NBA championship head-to-head against Phil Jackson and Kobe Bryant. 
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Offline LarBrd33

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Re: Bill Simmons
« Reply #9 on: June 28, 2013, 10:30:03 PM »
He's not right about Doc.  It was a mutual decision between the Celtics and Doc.  The Celtics want to tank and don't want to pay 8 million a year for a babysitter.  Doc didn't want to babysit a team that is trying to lose games.   

The confusion stems from the fact that there was a lot of PR being played from the Celtics and Doc in case the Clippers thing didn't work out... so any "flip flopping" might give off the wrong impression, but really it was just Boston covering their bases and maintaining leverage in case things didn't work out with the Clippers.  Blaming Doc is stupid.  Boston is heading in a different direction that involves 3-5 years of lotto basketball.  We got an unprotected 1st rounder for Doc which is the biggest haul ever for a coach.  Nothing to see here... move on.  Simmons has a warped perception based on media manipulations and not reality. 

Neither Doc nor the Celtics can flat out come out and say "Hey... we're tanking this season.  We don't want to win games.  We're trading KG, Pierce... and probably Rondo so we can get building blocks for the future... we don't want to pay 8 million a year for a coach to babysit our children"... because it makes Boston look bad and the league really frowns on tankers... it hurts ticket sales and puts the league in a negative spot.  You gotta take that stuff into context.

Offline Ogaju

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Re: Bill Simmons
« Reply #10 on: June 28, 2013, 10:37:20 PM »
Simmons knows and understands the game - not to the extent of guys who've worked or played in the league but he can hold his own talking the game with those guys.  He adds to it the fans perspective.  It's not an easy role to pull off but he's manged to do it.  Heck you have GMs like Darryl Morey and Ryan Mcdonough who I don't think even played college ball - why can't he do what he does?

Morey has degrees in statistics and MBA.  He's a pioneer of sports statistics serving as a chairman for the MIT Sports Analytics conference.  His specialization landed him a job as a consultant.  His success there lead to a front office job, where once again his success lead to a GM job where he once again has proven to be incredibly successful. 

Ryan McDonnough comes from a family deeply involved in sports analysis.  He also has a decade of incredibly successful scouting with the Celtics (Rondo) and great deal of expertise in statistical analysis which lead to his current GM job.

Bill Simmons was an intern, who gained popularity by mouthing off his opinion on sports, which he has no experience in.  His writing style is filled with amateur analysis to outright guessing often filled with "humorous" attacks on sports figures.  His main popularity is creating sports memes and writing "funny" sports articles which makes him as much of an expert on sports as the Onion is on everything. Read his articles posted on this thread on Doc Rivers for his credibility.  Hilarious that he attacked a former coach of the year and called for his head who immediately won the NBA championship head-to-head against Phil Jackson and Kobe Bryant.

Here we go with the Doc apologists. Lets bash Simmons and not keep the focus on Doc who failed to honor his own contract with the team.

Online cltc5

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Re: Bill Simmons
« Reply #11 on: June 28, 2013, 10:45:09 PM »
I like Bill simmons.  Always puts his neck out there for the C's and not ashamed of it.  Unlike someone I wont mention but his initial are D.O.C. ::)

Offline ClipperFreaK

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Re: Bill Simmons
« Reply #12 on: June 29, 2013, 12:08:48 AM »
He's not right about Doc.  It was a mutual decision between the Celtics and Doc.  The Celtics want to tank and don't want to pay 8 million a year for a babysitter.  Doc didn't want to babysit a team that is trying to lose games.   

The confusion stems from the fact that there was a lot of PR being played from the Celtics and Doc in case the Clippers thing didn't work out... so any "flip flopping" might give off the wrong impression, but really it was just Boston covering their bases and maintaining leverage in case things didn't work out with the Clippers.  Blaming Doc is stupid.  Boston is heading in a different direction that involves 3-5 years of lotto basketball.  We got an unprotected 1st rounder for Doc which is the biggest haul ever for a coach.  Nothing to see here... move on.  Simmons has a warped perception based on media manipulations and not reality. 

Neither Doc nor the Celtics can flat out come out and say "Hey... we're tanking this season.  We don't want to win games.  We're trading KG, Pierce... and probably Rondo so we can get building blocks for the future... we don't want to pay 8 million a year for a coach to babysit our children"... because it makes Boston look bad and the league really frowns on tankers... it hurts ticket sales and puts the league in a negative spot.  You gotta take that stuff into context.
...
« Last Edit: June 29, 2013, 12:39:20 AM by ClipperFreaK »

Online BballTim

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Re: Bill Simmons
« Reply #13 on: June 29, 2013, 12:28:33 AM »
I haven't read Bill Simmons book.  From everything I've heard from him and watched on TV, he knows very little about anything.  He is like a less intelligent Mike Felger or a more charismatic Skip Bayless.

  I agree with this.

  As for Doc, and I'll admit I haven't followed what he said that closely, but did he actually say that he called Danny to say he was staying and Danny said no, you're going to the Clippers? Because that's shockingly unlikely.

Offline paidthecost2betheboss

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Re: Bill Simmons
« Reply #14 on: June 29, 2013, 12:36:07 AM »
He's not right about Doc.  It was a mutual decision between the Celtics and Doc.  The Celtics want to tank and don't want to pay 8 million a year for a babysitter.  Doc didn't want to babysit a team that is trying to lose games.   

You are absolutely wrong.

Quote
2006-07 Boston Celtics
In 2007, with Greg Oden and Kevin Durant as the big lottery prizes, several teams were openly questioned about apparent tanking, including the Boston Celtics, Milwaukee Bucks and Memphis Grizzlies, the three teams that ended up with the best chance of drafting Oden or Durant.

In one notorious game late in the season, the Celtics, playing at home, led the woeful Bobcats 69-51 late in the third quarter -- and managed to lose the game by eight points, enhancing their draft positioning. Of course, Celtics coach Doc Rivers denied tanking charges. As Steve Bulpett reported in the Boston Herald: “Rivers insisted there was nothing sinister about leaving Paul Pierce (game-high 23 points) on the bench for the fourth quarter and letting the quintet of Sebastian Telfair, Ryan Gomes, Gerald Green, Allan Ray and Leon Powe stay on the parquet as the lead -- still at 10 with nine minutes left in the game -- disappeared.”

In the final week of the season, the Celtics and Bucks, both maneuvering for the best possible draft position, played each other and gave DNPs to high scorers Paul Pierce, Al Jefferson, Wally Szczerbiak, Michael Redd and Mo Williams.

After the game, the Associated Press reported:
Ryan Gomes had 13 through three quarters, but watched from the bench in the fourth as Boston clinched the worst record in the Eastern Conference and second worst in the league.

"I probably (would have played), but since we were in the hunt for a high draft pick, of course things are different," Gomes said. "I understand that. Hopefully things get better. Now that we clinched at least having the second-most balls in the lottery, the last three games we'll see what happens. We'll see if we can go out and finish some games."

Doc didn't wanna tank   AGAIN...
Let's not remotely imply that it is somehow beneath Doc to do what he has already done before.

And Wyc stated that Doc came to them about the Clippers idea. He said that. Doc admitted today that a letter sent on May 8th stimulated by the Nets inquiry into Doc which stated THEY (Celtics) EXPECTED DOC TO HONOR HIS CONTRACT.....Doc just said today he doesn't doubt they sent it...he just never opened it...a letter....from the folks paying you 7 million while your staying silent about your future.....he didn't even open a letter from his boss?

The only thing more bizzare than the Doc fiasco is watching folks try to make it seem mutual which it wasn't. I doubt Wyc talks just for the joy of hearing his own voice.

Simmons said own it. I agree.

 

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