Author Topic: This is a Great Deal!!!!  (Read 4256 times)

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This is a Great Deal!!!!
« on: June 28, 2013, 03:50:10 PM »

Offline Q_FBE

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Look we all know what the Celtics record was last year. It was a relative disaster compared to the expectations. Danny and Doc along with KG and Pierce wanted to give it one more go. KG signed a three year no trade clause deal for about 1/2 of what he was making before. Pierce had two years left on his deal (and then he would presumably retire or move on somewhere else). So Danny reloaded with Jason Terry, Courtney Lee, and Jeff Green (resign). He drafted Jared Sullenger and Fab Melo. Ray Allen left for Miami. Now what happened was that the Eastern teams like the Knicks and the Nets got stronger. The Bucks, Pistons, Cavaliers, and other mediocre teams gave us trouble early and middle part of the season. Rondo got hurt. Then Sullenger went down. Leondro Barbosa. Eventually KG and PP wore out. We sucked, We flat out sucked with our injured veterans and poor play from Lee and Terry. Doc Rivers had no answers and was probably preparing his exit strategy (which he executed to perfection - and Good Luck to you in Clipperville, sir).

Danny just dealt Doc, KG, PP, and JET away for four first round picks this decade and there is a lot of young talent to come into the league to compete against Lebron James and Kevin Durant. The cap fillers include Reggie Evans, Kris Humphries, Gerald Wallace and three other minor pieces (one of whom was a summer league hero with us last year in Kris Joseph. Reggie Evans is a rebounding monster and sorely fills a critical need for the Celtics who have been near the bottom in this category for the last two years. Kris Humphries is in the last year of a deal paying him $12 million and can be dealt to a team needing to get up to the salary floor for a bag of SWA peanuts so we can avoid a luxery tax penalty. Gerald Wallace is the one player with 3 years and 30 million left on his contract that can bring athletic ability and scoring and his game could fit with Rondo's. I just think he needs the right coach that can extract that productivity from him. He can shut down players and has kicked Paul Pierce's ass on the court while with Charlotte and once again early in the season with the Nets. He can be built up into a future tradeable asset when the time comes in 2015. The other players I know little about so I will not comment on them in this essay.

Danny's team is it will stand when the trade is official:

PG - Rondo, Avery Bradley, Lamont Jones, Marshon Brooks
SG - Courtney Lee, Kieth Bogans, Kris Joseph
SF - Jeff Green, Gerald Wallace
PF - Jared Sullenger, Kris Humphies
C - Kelly Olynyk, Fab Melo, Colton Iverson

The Celtics now need a head coach and my choice is Stan Van Gundy who is really good at working with developing young talent I am told. I also hear Rondo may be traded through ESPN sources and the Celtics are looking to this quickly. So I think Jared Sullenger, Avery Bradley and Jeff Green are now the centerpieces of this team which could well purport to a poor record for 2013-2014 but a quick rebuild through the draft. One thing I know is that we do not have Paul Ga$ton as the owner and ML Carr as the coach and GM that ran this franchise into the ground so I do not foresee another twenty year drought in championships like last time. A lot of immediate future success of the Celtics will be dependent on Rondo, Courtney Lee, Avery Bradley, Jeff Green, Jared Sullenger, and Kelly Olynyk. That talent base will probably not get us into the playoffs but with good drafting, and other teams that will be in decline, the Celtics will get back to top eight relevency in two to four seasons. The head coach and Rajon Rondo will be critical factors going forward.
The beatings will continue until morale improves

Re: This is a Great Deal!!!!
« Reply #1 on: June 28, 2013, 03:53:50 PM »

Online Birdman

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Didnt know Marshon Brooks a in the deal..is this right?
C/PF-Horford, Baynes, Noel, Theis, Morris,
SF/SG- Tatum, Brown, Hayward, Smart, Semi, Clark
PG- Irving, Rozier, Larkin

Re: This is a Great Deal!!!!
« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2013, 04:10:41 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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There is no such thing as a quick rebuild through the draft. Charlotte has been rebuilding since they entered the league. Sacramento has been rebuilding since 2006. Washington has been rebuilding since 2008. Minnesota has been rebuilding since 2007. Detroit has been rebuilding since 2008. Philly has been rebuilding since Iverson left.

All those teams still suck.

And the Celtics aren't the only team to recently go nuclear. Orlando, Philly, Phoenix, Milwaukee, Utah, and possibly Atlanta are all teams that may be going full remake at the same time Boston is and will add to teams like Sactown, Charlotte, New Orleans, Toronto and Washington that will just be bad teams next year.

All I see after this deal is a Celtic team with cap problems and a boat load of picks, none of which are guaranteed to be in the top 5-8 of any upcoming draft and none of which guarantee a player or players that will take this team anywhere in the next 5-7 years.

This deal is what it is, a plan to get really bad and hope to get lucky. Those type of plans can work out great if you get lucky. They can really suck if you do not get lucky. Just ask the people in Minny, Charlotte, Sacramento, Toronto, Washington, Portland, and other places that have tried this and seen it fail. Heck ask older Celtic fans about 1996 and 2007.

This is a deal and a plan. Whether it is a great deal and plan probably won't be known for about half a decade.


Re: This is a Great Deal!!!!
« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2013, 04:16:25 PM »

Offline tyrone biggums

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There is no such thing as a quick rebuild through the draft. Charlotte has been rebuilding since they entered the league. Sacramento has been rebuilding since 2006. Washington has been rebuilding since 2008. Minnesota has been rebuilding since 2007. Detroit has been rebuilding since 2008. Philly has been rebuilding since Iverson left.

All those teams still suck.

And the Celtics aren't the only team to recently go nuclear. Orlando, Philly, Phoenix, Milwaukee, Utah, and possibly Atlanta are all teams that may be going full remake at the same time Boston is and will add to teams like Sactown, Charlotte, New Orleans, Toronto and Washington that will just be bad teams next year.

All I see after this deal is a Celtic team with cap problems and a boat load of picks, none of which are guaranteed to be in the top 5-8 of any upcoming draft and none of which guarantee a player or players that will take this team anywhere in the next 5-7 years.

This deal is what it is, a plan to get really bad and hope to get lucky. Those type of plans can work out great if you get lucky. They can really suck if you do not get lucky. Just ask the people in Minny, Charlotte, Sacramento, Toronto, Washington, Portland, and other places that have tried this and seen it fail. Heck ask older Celtic fans about 1996 and 2007.

This is a deal and a plan. Whether it is a great deal and plan probably won't be known for about half a decade.

You nailed it. The majority of fans who want the "good old days" of Gerald Green, Bassy, Big Al, Allen Ray etc...were fans back then and all they know is "athletic basketball" not winning. Fans are very uneasy in this city cheering for a winning squad. But I'm done trying to get through to the pro blow it up crowd. It happened. Now becareful what you wish for...if this team some how makes an 8th seed this board will go full nuclear. That would be almost as good as getting Wiggins.

Re: This is a Great Deal!!!!
« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2013, 04:16:45 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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There is no such thing as a quick rebuild through the draft.
Complete nonsense.

Almost every team that contends had to bottom out at some point.   It's been that way all through history.  That's a completely ridiculous statement and you're wrong.  I could give you dozens of examples. 

Now unless you are harping on "quick".  I see 3-5 years as "quick".  Maybe you think "Quick" means 1 year.  The Thunder took 3 years to make the playoffs with Durant. The Cavs took 3 years to make the playoffs with Bron.  But 3 years is pretty quick in the grand scheme of things.  80s Celtics completely turned their team around by drafting Bird ... the Spurs completely turned around their team by drafting Duncan.  The Magic completely turned their team around by drafting Shaq.  The Magic completely turned their team around by drafting Dwight.  The Heat completely turned their team around by drafting Wade.   All of those players directly impacted Finals contending teams in short time.

Re: This is a Great Deal!!!!
« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2013, 04:26:16 PM »

Offline KG Living Legend

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no it's not

Re: This is a Great Deal!!!!
« Reply #6 on: June 28, 2013, 04:27:35 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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There is no such thing as a quick rebuild through the draft.
Complete nonsense.

Almost every team that contends had to bottom out at some point.   It's been that way all through history.  That's a completely ridiculous statement and you're wrong.  I could give you dozens of examples. 

Now unless you are harping on "quick".  I see 3-5 years as "quick".  Maybe you think "Quick" means 1 year.  The Thunder took 3 years to make the playoffs with Durant. The Cavs took 3 years to make the playoffs with Bron.  But 3 years is pretty quick in the grand scheme of things.  80s Celtics completely turned their team around by drafting Bird ... the Spurs completely turned around their team by drafting Duncan.  The Magic completely turned their team around by drafting Shaq.  The Magic completely turned their team around by drafting Dwight.  The Heat completely turned their team around by drafting Wade.   All of those players directly impacted Finals contending teams in short time.
Luck...You've gone back 30 years and given me a handful of teams that got lucky with Ping Pong balls during years where exceptional talent was available. For every example you have there are 10 or more examples of this failing.

So please don't say my opinion is complete nonsense. Its just different from yours. You are seeing teams that got lucky and saying this strategy works fast. I am seeing all those unlucky teams and thinking this is a strategy that more often than not fails. That is not nonsense

Re: This is a Great Deal!!!!
« Reply #7 on: June 28, 2013, 04:41:59 PM »

Online Atzar

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There is no such thing as a quick rebuild through the draft.
Complete nonsense.

Almost every team that contends had to bottom out at some point.   It's been that way all through history.  That's a completely ridiculous statement and you're wrong.  I could give you dozens of examples. 

Now unless you are harping on "quick".  I see 3-5 years as "quick".  Maybe you think "Quick" means 1 year.  The Thunder took 3 years to make the playoffs with Durant. The Cavs took 3 years to make the playoffs with Bron.  But 3 years is pretty quick in the grand scheme of things.  80s Celtics completely turned their team around by drafting Bird ... the Spurs completely turned around their team by drafting Duncan.  The Magic completely turned their team around by drafting Shaq.  The Magic completely turned their team around by drafting Dwight.  The Heat completely turned their team around by drafting Wade.   All of those players directly impacted Finals contending teams in short time.

And those that didn't rebuild directly through the draft did so indirectly by using the draft to acquire assets which they then flipped for elite talent.

The draft is how you rebuild.  First round picks are incredibly valuable, either as a currency of sorts or as a means to acquire talent.  Ainge has acquired us four first round picks for a coach and three players who are no longer good enough to carry us deep into the playoffs.  Rondo can get us at least one more.

The people who dislike this trade won't dislike it nearly so much around draft time almost every year for the next five years.


Re: This is a Great Deal!!!!
« Reply #8 on: June 28, 2013, 04:49:18 PM »

Offline Sketch5

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There is no such thing as a quick rebuild through the draft. Charlotte has been rebuilding since they entered the league. Sacramento has been rebuilding since 2006. Washington has been rebuilding since 2008. Minnesota has been rebuilding since 2007. Detroit has been rebuilding since 2008. Philly has been rebuilding since Iverson left.

All those teams still suck.

And the Celtics aren't the only team to recently go nuclear. Orlando, Philly, Phoenix, Milwaukee, Utah, and possibly Atlanta are all teams that may be going full remake at the same time Boston is and will add to teams like Sactown, Charlotte, New Orleans, Toronto and Washington that will just be bad teams next year.

All I see after this deal is a Celtic team with cap problems and a boat load of picks, none of which are guaranteed to be in the top 5-8 of any upcoming draft and none of which guarantee a player or players that will take this team anywhere in the next 5-7 years.

This deal is what it is, a plan to get really bad and hope to get lucky. Those type of plans can work out great if you get lucky. They can really suck if you do not get lucky. Just ask the people in Minny, Charlotte, Sacramento, Toronto, Washington, Portland, and other places that have tried this and seen it fail. Heck ask older Celtic fans about 1996 and 2007.

This is a deal and a plan. Whether it is a great deal and plan probably won't be known for about half a decade.

Problem with most of those teams is they draft really badly.Jordan can't pick, Mini and Sac double up on some of there positions. Washington and Portland have gotten some good players, but can't keep them happy.

OKC did a nice turn around. N.O. is only a couple years into theres and already on a good pace to be good in a couple years.  Indy took a little longer but now they are legit.

It all depends on how you draft, and how you keep the current players happy.

Re: This is a Great Deal!!!!
« Reply #9 on: June 28, 2013, 04:49:59 PM »

Offline RyNye

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And those that didn't rebuild directly through the draft did so indirectly by using the draft to acquire assets which they then flipped for elite talent.

Except the Spurs. And the Pistons. And the Heat. And the Lakers. And the Mavericks. Just looking in the past ten years the Celtics are the only team that had a quick turn-around from tank-to-championship and used first round picks directly to acquire elite talent. The Thunder haven't won a ring yet, so we can't call them a success yet (all I care about is #18). So ... yeah, this isn't accurate.

The people who dislike this trade won't dislike it nearly so much around draft time almost every year for the next five years.

Unless the ping-pong balls don't bounce our way. Unless our team doesn't out-tank the other crappy teams in the league. Unless we get a prospect like Wiggins or whoever and he isn't as good as people (prematurely) think he is. Unless our cap space is crap and we miss out on a free agent. Unless we can't get anybody good with our draft picks.

Face it, the ODDS ARE AGAINST US. This is a high risk/high reward scenario. Anybody who can claim that this is a great or a terrible trade with 100% confidence is a moron and liar, plain and simple. You can like the trade, and you can dislike it. But it will be YEARS before we can evaluate it accurately or fairly. There is just as much room here for it to ruin our team as to help it.

Re: This is a Great Deal!!!!
« Reply #10 on: June 28, 2013, 05:26:13 PM »

Offline Q_FBE

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Well, let me give you an alternative scenario that could have easily played out here.

1. Doc Rivers comes back and does half baked job of coaching.

2. Paul Pierce is bought out and goes to the Nets.

3. KG is traded to the Nets for Kris Humphries and a draft pick.

4. Rondo, Lee and Bass are traded for Jared Dudley, Dragen whats his name and Marcin Gortat.

Congratulations - we are the worst team in the league without any assets. 
The beatings will continue until morale improves

Re: This is a Great Deal!!!!
« Reply #11 on: June 28, 2013, 06:13:24 PM »

Online Atzar

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And those that didn't rebuild directly through the draft did so indirectly by using the draft to acquire assets which they then flipped for elite talent.

Except the Spurs. And the Pistons. And the Heat. And the Lakers. And the Mavericks. Just looking in the past ten years the Celtics are the only team that had a quick turn-around from tank-to-championship and used first round picks directly to acquire elite talent. The Thunder haven't won a ring yet, so we can't call them a success yet (all I care about is #18). So ... yeah, this isn't accurate.

The people who dislike this trade won't dislike it nearly so much around draft time almost every year for the next five years.

Unless the ping-pong balls don't bounce our way. Unless our team doesn't out-tank the other crappy teams in the league. Unless we get a prospect like Wiggins or whoever and he isn't as good as people (prematurely) think he is. Unless our cap space is crap and we miss out on a free agent. Unless we can't get anybody good with our draft picks.

Face it, the ODDS ARE AGAINST US. This is a high risk/high reward scenario. Anybody who can claim that this is a great or a terrible trade with 100% confidence is a moron and liar, plain and simple. You can like the trade, and you can dislike it. But it will be YEARS before we can evaluate it accurately or fairly. There is just as much room here for it to ruin our team as to help it.

I'll give you the Pistons in that list up top (who are an outlier in many ways) but every single one of the other examples started by acquiring the keystone superstar in the draft.  Duncan, Kobe, Dirk, and Wade were all cornerstones that enticed other players to come win with them.  The Spurs in particular are a terrible example for you to use, because they drafted literally every superstar they've won with.

And yeah, the odds are against us.  Guess what?  29 other teams want the same thing we do.  Winning involves luck.  Even if you do everything right, you're one ACL tear away from irrelevance.  Or you're one roleplayer having the series of his life away from losing a title, like nearly happened to the Heat.  It's a profession based on probability and luck just as much as it is skill.

The reason I back this trade is because I feel it gives us a higher probability of becoming a contender, relative to other moves we could have made.  If we draft six duds in a row, we failed because we didn't draft well, not vecause this trade was a mistake.  It's all probability.


Re: This is a Great Deal!!!!
« Reply #12 on: June 28, 2013, 06:25:54 PM »

Offline KJR

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This is a great deal.

The picks are solid assets.

The players we received can be packaged.  They have additional value.

Our young players form a solid core.

Many posters on here lurch from one extreme to the other: "oh no, we're in full-blown tank mode" or "I don't like these changes but I don't have any viable alternative suggestions."

I wholeheartedly supported this team the past six years, and especially KG and Pierce.

It's time for a change.

We've done the run it back four times now.  With Wallace, with Shaq, with Green and Wilcox, and with Terry and Lee.  We're not getting closer to a championship.  We're moving further away.  We've already done that four times.  Time for something new.

I'm happy for KG and Pierce.  KG gets his second year guaranteed.  Paul gets $15 million.   They play for a vet like Kidd and a guy they know in Frank.  They have a solid squad.

I don't think they'll win.  But they'll give it a good ride.

If we kept them, we'd probably get nothing in return next summer, we'd finish at .500 and be a first round exit.  I think we can do that with the core we have and a couple nifty trades.

No need to trade Rondo unless you get two high first round picks.  One high pick isn't enough.

Rondo is an elite playoff performer.  IMO better than anyone in a big game at this point than LeBron and Durant.  More able to take over a playoff game than any other PG.  So I give him some slack if he can't maintain that pace throughout the regular season.

He's part of a championship team.  Maybe Sully, maybe Green, maybe Avery.  We don't know.  We'll know on all 3 by next spring.  Might as well give them a shot.

So we're two elite players short.  A great big man.  And a great shooter.  And we need more 3s and more defense and more rebounding off the bench.

It's very doable.

Evans and Wallace could be fantastic 7-9 men on a championship team.  We've just got to find the right situation and maybe we get one pretty good big man.  If we can move Humphries for Gordon, that might be OK too.  We need his shooting.

I don't think the team is going to tank next year.  And I don't think Ainge is relying completely on the draft as so many on here seem to imply.  With a couple shrewd trades and a couple decent picks, we could be a top four (in the East) team in 2 years.

It's not all or nothing.

Compared to the original Clippers deal, or the rumored deals last trade deadline, we've just gotten a lot more assets.

We had six fantastic years with this group.  No one likes to see KG and Pierce go, but it was time.  It's much better for them.  And it's much better for the Celtics.

I'm waiting to see what the team looks like when the year begins.

It could be a decent transition year.  And I think we'll be back in contention much sooner than most on here seem to think.

Re: This is a Great Deal!!!!
« Reply #13 on: June 28, 2013, 06:40:17 PM »

Offline timobusa

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One thing is for sure, this new Celtics Rebuilding Roster is gonna be better than the 2006-2007 Celtics Roster.

More assets, more talent, more picks.

Re: This is a Great Deal!!!!
« Reply #14 on: June 28, 2013, 06:44:33 PM »

Offline thirstyboots18

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I hope Danny can build a level of trust with possible free agents to attract them here.  I suspect that may be a problem this time. 
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