LeBron and Bird through the first 10 years

[CeltsPride]

These Lebron (10 years in the league) comparisons are absurd. The guy was playing in the NBA at 19 years old. Bird was 23 his rookie year--so you are giving these older guys credit for years in their prime while using Lebrons stats as a kid. You want to make a fair comparison, start Lebron's stats at 23 and see how he matches up against guys like Bird and Jordan.

[Celtics4ever]

Bird led a mid major college, to the NCAA finals.   He was the sole star on that team.   James did not do well solo in CLE.  He was productive though but not as remarkable as Bird's feat.   I do not think James could have led an NCAA team to the finals.   His Cav teams were terrible in the final they got too and he disappeared. 

Bird would have never switched teams, nor would Jordan switch teams in a pitiful effort to win a title.   These guys relished a challenge.  LeBron tried to stack the deck.  he quit on his home town, period.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QURrcvalw0

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5391478

http://slumz.boxden.com/f16/larry-bird-speaks-lebrons-decision-1397713/

I want to see James enter a three point contest but he won't because it would be an embarrassment for him.

[Snakehead]

Bird led a mid major college, to the NCAA finals.   He was the sole star on that team.   James did not do well solo in CLE.  He was productive though but not as remarkable as Bird's feat.   I do not think James could have led an NCAA team to the finals.   His Cav teams were terrible in the final they got too and he disappeared. 

Bird would have never switched teams, nor would Jordan switch teams in a pitiful effort to win a title.   These guys relished a challenge.  LeBron tried to stack the deck.  he quit on his home town, period.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QURrcvalw0

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5391478

http://slumz.boxden.com/f16/larry-bird-speaks-lebrons-decision-1397713/

I want to see James enter a three point contest but he won't because it would be an embarrassment for him.

I think you're biased against James, reading this.

First, he did very well in Cleveland considering what those teams actually were, especially on offense.  The talent level was very low.  The best player to play on any of those teams (aside from James) was MO WILLIAMS.  MO WILLIAMS.  That's terrible.

Larry Hughes was brought in and literally billed as LeBron's Pippen.  Not only does this speak to the talent level, but the incompetence of the front office.

LeBron didn't play in college so let's just save your inference that he would have done poorly.

And if you want that three point contest, sure Bird wins.  How about the dunk contest though?

They aren't the same player.  That's fine.  No need to try to make them the same player.  They are both all time greats.

[CeltsPride]

Bird led a mid major college, to the NCAA finals.   He was the sole star on that team.   James did not do well solo in CLE.  He was productive though but not as remarkable as Bird's feat.   I do not think James could have led an NCAA team to the finals.   His Cav teams were terrible in the final they got too and he disappeared. 

Bird would have never switched teams, nor would Jordan switch teams in a pitiful effort to win a title.   These guys relished a challenge.  LeBron tried to stack the deck.  he quit on his home town, period.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QURrcvalw0

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5391478

http://slumz.boxden.com/f16/larry-bird-speaks-lebrons-decision-1397713/

I want to see James enter a three point contest but he won't because it would be an embarrassment for him.

While Bird was certainly impressive at 22 leading Indiana State to the Finals, I'm not sure it's as impressive as Lebron leading that crappy Cavs teams to the NBA Finals at age 22. As good as Bird was in college at age 22, he was not going to be averaging 27/7/6 in the NBA at that age

[Moranis]

Bird led a mid major college, to the NCAA finals.   He was the sole star on that team.   James did not do well solo in CLE.  He was productive though but not as remarkable as Bird's feat.   I do not think James could have led an NCAA team to the finals.   His Cav teams were terrible in the final they got too and he disappeared. 

Bird would have never switched teams, nor would Jordan switch teams in a pitiful effort to win a title.   These guys relished a challenge.  LeBron tried to stack the deck.  he quit on his home town, period.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QURrcvalw0

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5391478

http://slumz.boxden.com/f16/larry-bird-speaks-lebrons-decision-1397713/

I want to see James enter a three point contest but he won't because it would be an embarrassment for him.

While Bird was certainly impressive at 22 leading Indiana State to the Finals, I'm not sure it's as impressive as Lebron leading that crappy Cavs teams to the NBA Finals at age 22. As good as Bird was in college at age 22, he was not going to be averaging 27/7/6 in the NBA at that age

His entire post is ridiculous.  I mean Carmelo Anthony led his college team to a NCAA title as a freshman.  Lebron James has been better than Carmelo Anthony at every single age in their respective careers.  To act like Lebron couldn't have led a NCAA team to the championship game is just silly. 

[slamtheking]

Bird led a mid major college, to the NCAA finals.   He was the sole star on that team.   James did not do well solo in CLE.  He was productive though but not as remarkable as Bird's feat.   I do not think James could have led an NCAA team to the finals.   His Cav teams were terrible in the final they got too and he disappeared. 

Bird would have never switched teams, nor would Jordan switch teams in a pitiful effort to win a title.   These guys relished a challenge.  LeBron tried to stack the deck.  he quit on his home town, period.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QURrcvalw0

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5391478

http://slumz.boxden.com/f16/larry-bird-speaks-lebrons-decision-1397713/

I want to see James enter a three point contest but he won't because it would be an embarrassment for him.

While Bird was certainly impressive at 22 leading Indiana State to the Finals, I'm not sure it's as impressive as Lebron leading that crappy Cavs teams to the NBA Finals at age 22. As good as Bird was in college at age 22, he was not going to be averaging 27/7/6 in the NBA at that age

His entire post is ridiculous.  I mean Carmelo Anthony led his college team to a NCAA title as a freshman.  Lebron James has been better than Carmelo Anthony at every single age in their respective careers.  To act like Lebron couldn't have led a NCAA team to the championship game is just silly.

Lebron very well could have led a team to the NCAA title if he went to school.  would not be as impressive as what Bird did though.  In Bird's days, it was rare that any players left school early so the college teams were stronger/better back then.  nowadays with any player showing a minimal amount of talent doing a 1-and-done, it only takes that one great player to take a college team all the way.  it's a noteworthy accomplishment for sure but not as much as being the only good player on a team that's going up against a team that has several future NBA players on it.

[CeltsPride]

Bird led a mid major college, to the NCAA finals.   He was the sole star on that team.   James did not do well solo in CLE.  He was productive though but not as remarkable as Bird's feat.   I do not think James could have led an NCAA team to the finals.   His Cav teams were terrible in the final they got too and he disappeared. 

Bird would have never switched teams, nor would Jordan switch teams in a pitiful effort to win a title.   These guys relished a challenge.  LeBron tried to stack the deck.  he quit on his home town, period.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QURrcvalw0

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5391478

http://slumz.boxden.com/f16/larry-bird-speaks-lebrons-decision-1397713/

I want to see James enter a three point contest but he won't because it would be an embarrassment for him.

While Bird was certainly impressive at 22 leading Indiana State to the Finals, I'm not sure it's as impressive as Lebron leading that crappy Cavs teams to the NBA Finals at age 22. As good as Bird was in college at age 22, he was not going to be averaging 27/7/6 in the NBA at that age

His entire post is ridiculous.  I mean Carmelo Anthony led his college team to a NCAA title as a freshman.  Lebron James has been better than Carmelo Anthony at every single age in their respective careers.  To act like Lebron couldn't have led a NCAA team to the championship game is just silly.

Yep, i dont get what people try to do here. I LOVE Bird. Truly an all time great, but I am not going to pretend Lebron doesnt match up. By the time Lebron is done, I have little doubt he will be side by side with MJ at the top of the NBA hierarchy. Cant understand why people feel the need to bash him rather than to just enjoy his greatness.

[aporel#18]

comparing LeBroid to Larry Bird is one of the most stupid narratives plaguing the NBA this year.

LeTravel doesn't have to deal with standard rules, just as Michael Jordan. I think he's a talented player, and I'd love to see how he can adjust to play by actual rules. I think he could make it, and it's a shame he doesn't need to.

Bird had won almost everything by 1986, he had another fantastic year in 1986-1987 and he could have won another ring had Walton and McHale stayed healthy and/or had Len Bias been able to play. Then another great season, but in his 9th year he started dealing with injuries, and still was able to get 20/10 with 50/40/90 shooting. If using 19y.o. Lebroid stats is unfair, what about using injured Bird stats? smh

Comparing players from different eras is silly, but comparing a fundamentals monster like Bird to a physical monster like LeBroid doesn't make sense.

LeBron is a more talented, stronger Dominique Wilkins, but he's babied by the NBA the way Jordan was. Bird had to deal with Magic & Kareem, Mo Malone & Dr. J, the Pistons, Hakeem & Sampson, the Bucks... LeBron, like Jordan, has been unable to get pass the Cs (2007 is an aberration) until they were banged up and old. I don't even consider the South Beach shortcut against him.

I don't hate LeBron, and of course I'm biased, because Bird is the best player I've watched, and even when they lost to the Fakers in 1985, I became a Celtic fan because of Larry Legend. But no matter what Nike, BSPN and Stern want you to believe, if you have eyes and are old enough, you know you can't compare those two.

[Moranis]

Bird led a mid major college, to the NCAA finals.   He was the sole star on that team.   James did not do well solo in CLE.  He was productive though but not as remarkable as Bird's feat.   I do not think James could have led an NCAA team to the finals.   His Cav teams were terrible in the final they got too and he disappeared. 

Bird would have never switched teams, nor would Jordan switch teams in a pitiful effort to win a title.   These guys relished a challenge.  LeBron tried to stack the deck.  he quit on his home town, period.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QURrcvalw0

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5391478

http://slumz.boxden.com/f16/larry-bird-speaks-lebrons-decision-1397713/

I want to see James enter a three point contest but he won't because it would be an embarrassment for him.

While Bird was certainly impressive at 22 leading Indiana State to the Finals, I'm not sure it's as impressive as Lebron leading that crappy Cavs teams to the NBA Finals at age 22. As good as Bird was in college at age 22, he was not going to be averaging 27/7/6 in the NBA at that age

His entire post is ridiculous.  I mean Carmelo Anthony led his college team to a NCAA title as a freshman.  Lebron James has been better than Carmelo Anthony at every single age in their respective careers.  To act like Lebron couldn't have led a NCAA team to the championship game is just silly.

Lebron very well could have led a team to the NCAA title if he went to school.  would not be as impressive as what Bird did though.  In Bird's days, it was rare that any players left school early so the college teams were stronger/better back then.  nowadays with any player showing a minimal amount of talent doing a 1-and-done, it only takes that one great player to take a college team all the way.  it's a noteworthy accomplishment for sure but not as much as being the only good player on a team that's going up against a team that has several future NBA players on it.

I don't know if I would go that far.  I mean Indiana State played Virginia Tech (1 year from 1 player in the NBA), Oklahoma (1 year from 1 player in the NBA), Arkansas (0 NBA players), Depaul (Mark Aguirre in his first year at Depaul and Gary Garland who had 1 year in the NBA), and then of course Michigan State (Magic, Greg Kelser, and Jay Vincent (2nd year at MSU)).  So in other-words until Michigan State in the finals, Indiana State played 4 games and faced just 1 future NBA player that played more than 1 year in the league (and Aguirre had a very solid all star level career, but isn't exactly an all timer) and three guys that were in the league for a year. 

[CeltsPride]

Bird led a mid major college, to the NCAA finals.   He was the sole star on that team.   James did not do well solo in CLE.  He was productive though but not as remarkable as Bird's feat.   I do not think James could have led an NCAA team to the finals.   His Cav teams were terrible in the final they got too and he disappeared. 

Bird would have never switched teams, nor would Jordan switch teams in a pitiful effort to win a title.   These guys relished a challenge.  LeBron tried to stack the deck.  he quit on his home town, period.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QURrcvalw0

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5391478

http://slumz.boxden.com/f16/larry-bird-speaks-lebrons-decision-1397713/

I want to see James enter a three point contest but he won't because it would be an embarrassment for him.

While Bird was certainly impressive at 22 leading Indiana State to the Finals, I'm not sure it's as impressive as Lebron leading that crappy Cavs teams to the NBA Finals at age 22. As good as Bird was in college at age 22, he was not going to be averaging 27/7/6 in the NBA at that age

His entire post is ridiculous.  I mean Carmelo Anthony led his college team to a NCAA title as a freshman.  Lebron James has been better than Carmelo Anthony at every single age in their respective careers.  To act like Lebron couldn't have led a NCAA team to the championship game is just silly.

Lebron very well could have led a team to the NCAA title if he went to school.  would not be as impressive as what Bird did though.  In Bird's days, it was rare that any players left school early so the college teams were stronger/better back then.  nowadays with any player showing a minimal amount of talent doing a 1-and-done, it only takes that one great player to take a college team all the way.  it's a noteworthy accomplishment for sure but not as much as being the only good player on a team that's going up against a team that has several future NBA players on it.

I don't know if I would go that far.  I mean Indiana State played Virginia Tech (1 year from 1 player in the NBA), Oklahoma (1 year from 1 player in the NBA), Arkansas (0 NBA players), Depaul (Mark Aguirre in his first year at Depaul and Gary Garland who had 1 year in the NBA), and then of course Michigan State (Magic, Greg Kelser, and Jay Vincent (2nd year at MSU)).  So in other-words until Michigan State in the finals, Indiana State played 4 games and faced just 1 future NBA player that played more than 1 year in the league (and Aguirre had a very solid all star level career, but isn't exactly an all timer) and three guys that were in the league for a year.

now that's a post. well done.

[BballTim]

Bird led a mid major college, to the NCAA finals.   He was the sole star on that team.   James did not do well solo in CLE.  He was productive though but not as remarkable as Bird's feat.   I do not think James could have led an NCAA team to the finals.   His Cav teams were terrible in the final they got too and he disappeared. 

Bird would have never switched teams, nor would Jordan switch teams in a pitiful effort to win a title.   These guys relished a challenge.  LeBron tried to stack the deck.  he quit on his home town, period.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QURrcvalw0

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5391478

http://slumz.boxden.com/f16/larry-bird-speaks-lebrons-decision-1397713/

I want to see James enter a three point contest but he won't because it would be an embarrassment for him.

While Bird was certainly impressive at 22 leading Indiana State to the Finals, I'm not sure it's as impressive as Lebron leading that crappy Cavs teams to the NBA Finals at age 22. As good as Bird was in college at age 22, he was not going to be averaging 27/7/6 in the NBA at that age

His entire post is ridiculous.  I mean Carmelo Anthony led his college team to a NCAA title as a freshman.  Lebron James has been better than Carmelo Anthony at every single age in their respective careers.  To act like Lebron couldn't have led a NCAA team to the championship game is just silly.

Lebron very well could have led a team to the NCAA title if he went to school.  would not be as impressive as what Bird did though.  In Bird's days, it was rare that any players left school early so the college teams were stronger/better back then.  nowadays with any player showing a minimal amount of talent doing a 1-and-done, it only takes that one great player to take a college team all the way.  it's a noteworthy accomplishment for sure but not as much as being the only good player on a team that's going up against a team that has several future NBA players on it.

I don't know if I would go that far.  I mean Indiana State played Virginia Tech (1 year from 1 player in the NBA), Oklahoma (1 year from 1 player in the NBA), Arkansas (0 NBA players), Depaul (Mark Aguirre in his first year at Depaul and Gary Garland who had 1 year in the NBA), and then of course Michigan State (Magic, Greg Kelser, and Jay Vincent (2nd year at MSU)).  So in other-words until Michigan State in the finals, Indiana State played 4 games and faced just 1 future NBA player that played more than 1 year in the league (and Aguirre had a very solid all star level career, but isn't exactly an all timer) and three guys that were in the league for a year.

  Without checking the rosters I'd bet Sydney Moncreif was on Arkansas. But beyond that, did you see Bird in college? You really can't just look at rosters and pro stats and get a good line on players or teams. He did more to carry that team than any college player I can remember seeing.

[blink]

I lived in Iowa when Bird was in college.  I saw him twice in person when Indiana State played at my fav college team Drake Bulldogs (i know Drake isn't much, but it was all we had).  He was absolutely the best player I had ever seen.  He did it when everyone knew he was going to do it, and they couldn't stop him.  At the time, I really didn't like Bird.  Probably because he was so unstoppable.

Larry Bird in college was an absolute phenom.  I was about 10-11 years old.  I think Larry set the scoring record at the time for Veterans Memorial Auditorium.  I think he laid 46 or 48 on Drake, and Drake almost pulled the upset.

He didn't have much of a team around him.  He made everyone on his team better.  He was an incredible passer, and a lights out shooter.  He was a one man team.  So everyone who even thinks he had a lot of help on those ISU teams, think again.

[Moranis]

Bird led a mid major college, to the NCAA finals.   He was the sole star on that team.   James did not do well solo in CLE.  He was productive though but not as remarkable as Bird's feat.   I do not think James could have led an NCAA team to the finals.   His Cav teams were terrible in the final they got too and he disappeared. 

Bird would have never switched teams, nor would Jordan switch teams in a pitiful effort to win a title.   These guys relished a challenge.  LeBron tried to stack the deck.  he quit on his home town, period.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QURrcvalw0

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5391478

http://slumz.boxden.com/f16/larry-bird-speaks-lebrons-decision-1397713/

I want to see James enter a three point contest but he won't because it would be an embarrassment for him.

While Bird was certainly impressive at 22 leading Indiana State to the Finals, I'm not sure it's as impressive as Lebron leading that crappy Cavs teams to the NBA Finals at age 22. As good as Bird was in college at age 22, he was not going to be averaging 27/7/6 in the NBA at that age

His entire post is ridiculous.  I mean Carmelo Anthony led his college team to a NCAA title as a freshman.  Lebron James has been better than Carmelo Anthony at every single age in their respective careers.  To act like Lebron couldn't have led a NCAA team to the championship game is just silly.

Lebron very well could have led a team to the NCAA title if he went to school.  would not be as impressive as what Bird did though.  In Bird's days, it was rare that any players left school early so the college teams were stronger/better back then.  nowadays with any player showing a minimal amount of talent doing a 1-and-done, it only takes that one great player to take a college team all the way.  it's a noteworthy accomplishment for sure but not as much as being the only good player on a team that's going up against a team that has several future NBA players on it.

I don't know if I would go that far.  I mean Indiana State played Virginia Tech (1 year from 1 player in the NBA), Oklahoma (1 year from 1 player in the NBA), Arkansas (0 NBA players), Depaul (Mark Aguirre in his first year at Depaul and Gary Garland who had 1 year in the NBA), and then of course Michigan State (Magic, Greg Kelser, and Jay Vincent (2nd year at MSU)).  So in other-words until Michigan State in the finals, Indiana State played 4 games and faced just 1 future NBA player that played more than 1 year in the league (and Aguirre had a very solid all star level career, but isn't exactly an all timer) and three guys that were in the league for a year.

  Without checking the rosters I'd bet Sydney Moncreif was on Arkansas. But beyond that, did you see Bird in college? You really can't just look at rosters and pro stats and get a good line on players or teams. He did more to carry that team than any college player I can remember seeing.

he was.  I missed him when I looked.

Not sure what the rest of your post has to do with mine.  I was merely commenting on the talent level on the whole in the old days.  It really wasn't that much better.  There were a few more good players in college on the whole (since they stayed longer), but the 1 and done guys are what 5-10 per year.  So you have what, maybe 15-20 more real good players in college in the old days.  Spread them out and there really isn't that much difference in overall talent.  The difference is that the really good players were all more seasoned and better on the whole, but the best players of then and the best players of today have similar seasoning levels.  That was the point I was making.

[BballTim]

These Lebron (10 years in the league) comparisons are absurd. The guy was playing in the NBA at 19 years old. Bird was 23 his rookie year--so you are giving these older guys credit for years in their prime while using Lebrons stats as a kid. You want to make a fair comparison, start Lebron's stats at 23 and see how he matches up against guys like Bird and Jordan.

  Looking at LeBron's early years helps him, it doesn't hurt him. If you want to be fair, throw out the Cavs years when he was putting up better numbers because his teammates weren't that great. All of his best scoring years were in that range. Take his Miami years and compare him to Larry at the same age. James put up 27/8/7, Bird put up 26/11/6.

  It's also worth pointing out that Bird was never big on stats and could have put up better numbers than he did but he sacrificed his numbers for the good of the team.
 

[CeltsPride]

These Lebron (10 years in the league) comparisons are absurd. The guy was playing in the NBA at 19 years old. Bird was 23 his rookie year--so you are giving these older guys credit for years in their prime while using Lebrons stats as a kid. You want to make a fair comparison, start Lebron's stats at 23 and see how he matches up against guys like Bird and Jordan.

  Looking at LeBron's early years helps him, it doesn't hurt him. If you want to be fair, throw out the Cavs years when he was putting up better numbers because his teammates weren't that great. All of his best scoring years were in that range. Take his Miami years and compare him to Larry at the same age. James put up 27/8/7, Bird put up 26/11/6.

  It's also worth pointing out that Bird was never big on stats and could have put up better numbers than he did but he sacrificed his numbers for the good of the team.
 

The game is so different today. Back in the mid 80's, there were 10 guys every year averaging at least 25 per game. Last year, there were a total of 4 guys who averaged 25 a game.

And Lebron is every bit as unselfish as bird with respect to stats. You don't join a team with wade and bosh if you are concerned about stats