Author Topic: LeBron and Bird through the first 10 years  (Read 7650 times)

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LeBron and Bird through the first 10 years
« on: June 26, 2013, 01:19:29 PM »

Offline Django

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People forget how much of a beast Bird was on the boards.

Re: LeBron and Bird through the first 10 years
« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2013, 01:50:10 PM »

Offline Sully7

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Great share...crazy numbers.

Re: LeBron and Bird through the first 10 years
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2013, 01:55:48 PM »

Offline Lucky17

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Wow. Great find. TP.
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Re: LeBron and Bird through the first 10 years
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2013, 02:03:19 PM »

Offline slamtheking

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People forget how much of a beast Bird was on the boards.
I don't really think anyone who had the privilege of watching Bird ever overlooked/forgot his rebounding.  Other than Russell, he's the Celt I'd want in the game most if I needed a defensive rebound.

Re: LeBron and Bird through the first 10 years
« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2013, 02:03:26 PM »

Offline Fred Roberts

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Django unchained. Interesting stats. I looked at this not too long ago, but it's much easier to analyze in a summary form like this.

Amazingly close almost across the board. Too bad those 1st ten years were pretty much Bird's career. It feels like LeBron has a long ways to go, yet.

Bird definitely had the edge in fast break dunking ability! He was so nasty he rarely even tried. 


Re: LeBron and Bird through the first 10 years
« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2013, 02:09:17 PM »

Offline bcgenuis

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In today's game environment - meaning more 3's and star treatment re fouls- Bird would easily avg over 30 ppg.

Wow! LBJ plays one minute more and gets called for one foul less on avg. Also look at the FTA discrepancy - LBJ is taking more 3's and still has more FTA's.

At 88% (assuming Bird got fouled the same amount as LBJ)  nearly +3 ppg in FTM category alone. Thrown in another 3 pointer made and you're at +4.

Also consider the game was much more physical then and Larry only avg'd 5.3 FTA's. What a joke the officiating has become.


Re: LeBron and Bird through the first 10 years
« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2013, 02:18:31 PM »

Offline CelticG1

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They played in different eras with different teammates, coaches, diets, weight training, science, money, rules, officials, etc etc.

I hate trying to compare people from different eras. So pointless

Re: LeBron and Bird through the first 10 years
« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2013, 02:21:04 PM »

Offline Moranis

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In today's game environment - meaning more 3's and star treatment re fouls- Bird would easily avg over 30 ppg.

Wow! LBJ plays one minute more and gets called for one foul less on avg. Also look at the FTA discrepancy - LBJ is taking more 3's and still has more FTA's.

At 88% (assuming Bird got fouled the same amount as LBJ)  nearly +3 ppg in FTM category alone. Thrown in another 3 pointer made and you're at +4.

Also consider the game was much more physical then and Larry only avg'd 5.3 FTA's. What a joke the officiating has become.
None of that should be surprising.  James' has built his career taking it to the hole.  That is where you get fouled.  Bird was much more a jump shooter than James.  Even inside the line he would take a lot of long 2's.  Today's game that just doesn't happen.  Bird would take a lot more 3's today though and thus would have upped his points per game by at least a point or two, though that might have effected his percentage a bit and may have possibly effected his offensive rebounding opportunities.  Of course at 6'10" Bird would have been a PF had he entered the league today and would be molded more like Dirk in that regard.
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Re: LeBron and Bird through the first 10 years
« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2013, 02:25:32 PM »

Offline bcgenuis

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In today's game environment - meaning more 3's and star treatment re fouls- Bird would easily avg over 30 ppg.

Wow! LBJ plays one minute more and gets called for one foul less on avg. Also look at the FTA discrepancy - LBJ is taking more 3's and still has more FTA's.

At 88% (assuming Bird got fouled the same amount as LBJ)  nearly +3 ppg in FTM category alone. Thrown in another 3 pointer made and you're at +4.

Also consider the game was much more physical then and Larry only avg'd 5.3 FTA's. What a joke the officiating has become.
None of that should be surprising.  James' has built his career taking it to the hole.  That is where you get fouled.  Bird was much more a jump shooter than James.  Even inside the line he would take a lot of long 2's.  Today's game that just doesn't happen.  Bird would take a lot more 3's today though and thus would have upped his points per game by at least a point or two, though that might have effected his percentage a bit and may have possibly effected his offensive rebounding opportunities.  Of course at 6'10" Bird would have been a PF had he entered the league today and would be molded more like Dirk in that regard.

I would be interested to see a shot chart comparing LBJ and Bird's shot selection.  I don't think it'l be that different as you make it out to be.

Re: LeBron and Bird through the first 10 years
« Reply #9 on: June 26, 2013, 02:28:23 PM »

Offline quidinqui33

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For me, 1984-1986 Larry Bird is and will always be the greatest basketball player ever.  He could do every primary skill at an elite level (shoot, rebound, pass, defend, move wihthout the ball, hit big shots, free throws, 3-point ragne, etc).  I don't know that there are any other players you can say that about.

Players like Jordan and eventually Lebron will likely have longer careers at a high level (which is why they will end up in front of Bird on lists), and are more athletic (though Bird was not un-athletic as people like to claim), but if I had to start a team today and pick a player at his peak, Larry Bird is my guy.  I'm biased, but I'm also right! :)

Re: LeBron and Bird through the first 10 years
« Reply #10 on: June 26, 2013, 02:44:40 PM »

Offline TitleMaster

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I don't really think anyone who had the privilege of watching Bird ever overlooked/forgot his rebounding.  Other than Russell, he's the Celt I'd want in the game most if I needed a defensive rebound.

Don't forget Paul Silas, as a rebounding machine.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/silaspa01.html

For his 4 years on the Celts, he averaged 13.7 boards per 36 minutes. 4-5 were off the offensive glass which meant pretty much, he'd kept many possessions alive and took away from the opponent's ability to come back from our missed shot attempts. Cowens got many of the other boards, however, his offense ones were less than Silas's.

And then add in Paul's dozen points plus one-on-one defense against slasher scorers, & you have an indispensable player.



Re: LeBron and Bird through the first 10 years
« Reply #11 on: June 26, 2013, 03:17:37 PM »

Offline Tgro

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In today's game environment - meaning more 3's and star treatment re fouls- Bird would easily avg over 30 ppg.

Wow! LBJ plays one minute more and gets called for one foul less on avg. Also look at the FTA discrepancy - LBJ is taking more 3's and still has more FTA's.

At 88% (assuming Bird got fouled the same amount as LBJ)  nearly +3 ppg in FTM category alone. Thrown in another 3 pointer made and you're at +4.

Also consider the game was much more physical then and Larry only avg'd 5.3 FTA's. What a joke the officiating has become.
None of that should be surprising.  James' has built his career taking it to the hole.  That is where you get fouled.  Bird was much more a jump shooter than James.  Even inside the line he would take a lot of long 2's.  Today's game that just doesn't happen.  Bird would take a lot more 3's today though and thus would have upped his points per game by at least a point or two, though that might have effected his percentage a bit and may have possibly effected his offensive rebounding opportunities.  Of course at 6'10" Bird would have been a PF had he entered the league today and would be molded more like Dirk in that regard.

I would be interested to see a shot chart comparing LBJ and Bird's shot selection.  I don't think it'l be that different as you make it out to be.

No one would say LBJ can't shoot from just about anywhere with great success. I would just say Bird shot it from anywhere a LOT more and did it amazingly well at that.

While James can hit those shots too, but in comparison, he took it to the hole a heck of a lot more than Bird ever did. Bird was just a flat out shooter. James was more of a mix of to the hole and shooting.
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Re: LeBron and Bird through the first 10 years
« Reply #12 on: June 26, 2013, 03:27:01 PM »

Offline biggs

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Wow that's amazing! Stern has created lebron in the image of bird. Must be nice to enter the league with a platinum spoon in your crybaby mouth lebron. And PS- lebron can you please pick a different sport to ruin? Or were you groomed to play in the nba because its the most corrupt sport of any professional league in America?
Truuuuuuuuuth!

Re: LeBron and Bird through the first 10 years
« Reply #13 on: June 26, 2013, 03:32:14 PM »

Offline angryguy77

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In today's game environment - meaning more 3's and star treatment re fouls- Bird would easily avg over 30 ppg.

Wow! LBJ plays one minute more and gets called for one foul less on avg. Also look at the FTA discrepancy - LBJ is taking more 3's and still has more FTA's.

At 88% (assuming Bird got fouled the same amount as LBJ)  nearly +3 ppg in FTM category alone. Thrown in another 3 pointer made and you're at +4.

Also consider the game was much more physical then and Larry only avg'd 5.3 FTA's. What a joke the officiating has become.

Exactly what I was thinking looking at these numbers.
Still don't believe in Joe.

Re: LeBron and Bird through the first 10 years
« Reply #14 on: June 27, 2013, 05:44:01 AM »

Offline BballTim

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For me, 1984-1986 Larry Bird is and will always be the greatest basketball player ever.  He could do every primary skill at an elite level (shoot, rebound, pass, defend, move wihthout the ball, hit big shots, free throws, 3-point ragne, etc).  I don't know that there are any other players you can say that about.

Players like Jordan and eventually Lebron will likely have longer careers at a high level (which is why they will end up in front of Bird on lists), and are more athletic (though Bird was not un-athletic as people like to claim), but if I had to start a team today and pick a player at his peak, Larry Bird is my guy.  I'm biased, but I'm also right! :)

  I also think Bird was probably the best player I ever saw. His passing was amazing. I'd put him in the top 5 of all time in that category.