Author Topic: It seems Boston has all the leverage  (Read 6363 times)

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Re: It seems Boston has all the leverage
« Reply #15 on: June 16, 2013, 05:16:56 PM »

Offline erisred

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The claim about having the necessary cap space to sign a big free agent if PP and KG retire is false though.  With cap holds, we would have way less than 10m in cap space.  We'd have to move at least one of our mid-size contracts for nothing.
You're right about the cap space. It probably doesn't matter to Danny *this* year, too much, though. I'd expect that if Doc, PP and KG retire the C's will not look to bring in any long term replacements. In fact, I'd expect the C's to move Terry for an expiring contract. In this case, a defacto tank would probably make sense for one year...yuck, but probably the best option.

Re: It seems Boston has all the leverage
« Reply #16 on: June 16, 2013, 05:17:10 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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There shouldn't be any pressure for Boston to make a move.  We have Doc, KG and Pierce under contract.  They can either player here next season (a lot of fans would be happy with that)... or they can all retire and we can use the 14 mil in cap space to sign someone like Big Al or Smith... or just hang onto it for next season.

There should be considerable pressure for the Clippers, though.  There is no guarantee that Chris Paul resigns.  He could go to Dallas.  He could go to Houston.  He could go to Atlanta.  One or two small tweaks to a roster like Dallas and both he and Dwight could join a team together. Meanwhile, Chris apparently doesn't like playing with Blake Griffin and DeAndre Jordan.  He clashes with them frequently.  And they currently don't even have a coach.   The pressure is all on the Clippers... Chris apparently is the one driving for them to bring in Doc and KG (and Pierce).  Chris is apparently the reason the Clippers are interested in trading Griffin and Bledsoe for Howard.  ALL the pressure is on the Clippers.  They should be desperate to do anything they need to convince Chris Paul to resign with them.  Boston doesn't have to do squat.  WE can hang onto our guys or they can retire.  Either way, we good.   If the Clippers don't do something drastic, THEY are the one who stands to lose in a big way (if Chris flees).

Also... I'll say it again.  If Chris Paul is that desperate to be coached by Doc Rivers and play with KG and Pierce... if I'm Danny Ainge I call the CLippers and say, "Hey... since our trade fell apart and you guys might lose Chris for nothing.  I just want to let you know that we're willing to trade you Rajon Rondo if you can convince Chris to agree to a sign-and-trade with Boston.  I figured you'd guys rather have Rondo (broken ACL and all) than get stuck with nothing.  Lemme know.  All my love - Danny"

Well put. We could even help Dallas or Houston get enough cap space to sign Howard or Paul by trading them Pierce before his buyout date. If I were Ainge, I would tell the Clippers if you don't like our deal, then we will consider Dallas' interest in acquiring Pierce's contract, which they actually did consider last season before the trade deadline.
Yeah Dallas is apparently willing to give up their #14 pick if it will bring them cap space.  If we traded them Pierce for Marion (expiring), Carter (expiring) and Cunninghman (meh young player) + the #14... the Mavs could then buy out Pierce and they would have Dirk 22.7 mil the remainder of Pierce's bought out contract (5 mil) ... and that's about it.  OJ Mayo is opting out.  It would give Mark Cuban about 30 million in cap space to sign both Dwight and Chris Paul and pair them with Dirk for one year... then Dirk has already agreed to take a significant paycut after next season.. so they'd have max cap space to go after a 2014 free agent class headlined by Lebron james.

I could see the Clippers deal heading to a point where Boston agreeing to buy out Pierce (so he can join the Clippers) is part of the deal.

Re: It seems Boston has all the leverage
« Reply #17 on: June 16, 2013, 05:17:51 PM »

Offline BleedGreen1989

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I have purposely stayed out of these talks. I think what sparked most of our interest is the original deal involving Bledsoe/Jordan/2 first rounders. I think most of us would balk at what turned out to be Jordan and a 1st rounder.

When it comes to the 1st deal, Boston does not really have much leverage. Clippers can simply walk away and say no thanks. This in turn does not destroy Boston or make us horrible but we have no way to leverage them into a deal.

Whether you're a fan of Bledsoe or not, he has significant trade value and LA could simply trade him for something else.

That's not the point. The point is that this trade for the Clippers is about making Chris Paul happy enough to re-sign. There are not any other reasonable options out there for them to do so. Would getting Afflialo for Bledsoe convince Paul to re-sign when he has already stated he wants KG and Doc? I don't think so,

Is there a quote out where CP says he specifically wants Doc and KG? I haven't seen one.
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Re: It seems Boston has all the leverage
« Reply #18 on: June 16, 2013, 05:18:24 PM »

Offline lightspeed5

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Callie Rivers has more leverage than anyone

Re: It seems Boston has all the leverage
« Reply #19 on: June 16, 2013, 05:19:11 PM »

Offline Celtics Insider

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I've always liked Josh Smith, but the last thing we need is another athletic player who can't shoot. I'd rather not get Smith with that $14M (doubt he'd take that anyways), and try and trade Lee, Terry, and Bass. Basically, let KG, Pierce, and Doc retire, now that we know LAC probably won't give us Bledsoe, trade Terry, Lee, and Bass for...something. Doesn't really matter to me. Probably some expirings. Use the HUGE amount of cap space to sign one or two "second-tier" players, and STILL have the cap to add some impact role players.

I think that we should try and do whatever it takes to make it so that our only players under contract are Rondo, T-Will, Bradley, Crawford, Green, Sully, Shav, and Melo.

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Re: It seems Boston has all the leverage
« Reply #20 on: June 16, 2013, 05:22:04 PM »

Offline erisred

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The claim about having the necessary cap space to sign a big free agent if PP and KG retire is false though.  With cap holds, we would have way less than 10m in cap space.  We'd have to move at least one of our mid-size contracts for nothing.
Elaborate.  If Kg and PIerce retire, don't they fall off the books?  Count up who is left under contract and it's about 44 mil.  WHy would there be a cap hold if they retire?
It's a cap hold on the roster slots, not the players. I think you've got to have under contract, or min-contract cap holds, for 15 (maybe it's 14) players. So, if 8 players under contract add up to 44 million, you still have to hold a bit under 7 million for the other roster slots. That would bring us up to about 50 million.

I think that's right.

Re: It seems Boston has all the leverage
« Reply #21 on: June 16, 2013, 05:29:25 PM »

Offline tarheelsxxiii

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Also... I'll say it again.  If Chris Paul is that desperate to be coached by Doc Rivers and play with KG and Pierce... if I'm Danny Ainge I call the CLippers and say, "Hey... since our trade fell apart and you guys might lose Chris for nothing.  I just want to let you know that we're willing to trade you Rajon Rondo if you can convince Chris to agree to a sign-and-trade with Boston.  I figured you'd guys rather have Rondo (broken ACL and all) than get stuck with nothing.  Lemme know.  All my love - Danny"

That's a slick idea. But if this deal would solidify Paul staying, why would they not just agree to it? Then they don't need to trade him for Rondo. They'd clearly prefer letting Bledsoe go to keep Paul than replace Paul with Rondo... and that seems to be within their power.
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Re: It seems Boston has all the leverage
« Reply #22 on: June 16, 2013, 05:30:15 PM »

Offline Kane3387

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Agreed with OP. Ainge is in the drivers seat. And I personally believe he will win this stand-off. If somehow this deal doesn't happen and CP3 leaves then everyone in the Clippers front office will probably be fired.

I don't believe buying out pierce is part of this. He'd be used in another trade more then likely.

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« Last Edit: June 16, 2013, 05:36:34 PM by Kane3387 »


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Re: It seems Boston has all the leverage
« Reply #23 on: June 16, 2013, 05:34:00 PM »

Offline ianboyextreme

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Re: It seems Boston has all the leverage
« Reply #24 on: June 16, 2013, 05:38:12 PM »

Offline TripleOT

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If the Clips would trade Bledsoe and Griffin to the Lakers for Howard in a S and T, why not trade Griffin and end up with Howard and CP3, with Howard weakening the Lakers by leaving with no compensation?

Clips trade Jordan to Boston for KG.  Clips get Doc for a second round pick.  Clips trade Griffin for Paul Pierce, then cut Pierce and have enough cap room for both Howard and CP3. They still have Bledsoe and Crawford, and can fill their roster with vetmin ring chasers (Ray Allen if he opts out?, Brand, Kamen, Barnes, Billups).   

Re: It seems Boston has all the leverage
« Reply #25 on: June 16, 2013, 05:54:14 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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If the Clips would trade Bledsoe and Griffin to the Lakers for Howard in a S and T, why not trade Griffin and end up with Howard and CP3, with Howard weakening the Lakers by leaving with no compensation?

Clips trade Jordan to Boston for KG.  Clips get Doc for a second round pick.  Clips trade Griffin for Paul Pierce, then cut Pierce and have enough cap room for both Howard and CP3. They still have Bledsoe and Crawford, and can fill their roster with vetmin ring chasers (Ray Allen if he opts out?, Brand, Kamen, Barnes, Billups).

Interesting idea, but it wouldn't work.  I gave it some thought.  Would you assume Chris Paul would take a paycut?  I think since they have his bird rights if they extend him he'll have a contract starting at 18 mil per year.

So you have CP3 = 18 mil
KG = 12.4 mil
Butler = 8 mil
Crawford = 5.2 mil
Bledsoe = 2.6 mil
W Green = 1.4 mil

That alone is 47.6 mil

Blake makes 15 mil.  If you did your Blake for Pierce pipe dream where they'd buy out Pierce it adds another 5 mil and it = 52.6 mil ... not to mention they no longer get to have Pierce on the roster.  And it only leaves like 6 million to sign Dwight Howard.  Even if Chris took a pay cut it wouldn't work.  Cute idea, though.

What they'd like to do is give Chris as much money as he wants (contract starting at 18 mil?) and then trade Griffin and Bledsoe for a sign-and-traded Dwight (so he can make max as well)... and then trade DeAndre Jordan for KG and sign a bought-out Pierce for the MLE or something.

Re: It seems Boston has all the leverage
« Reply #26 on: June 16, 2013, 06:07:19 PM »

Offline Neurotic Guy

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I think Boston is in a pretty solid position.  Danny just needs to hold firm.  If he gets DJ, EB and two 1sts (actually, I'd prefer one 1st - 2014), then it's a nice haul for the C's and good start to the rebuild effort.  If no EB, he should just say no -- mainly for the reasons stated in the original post. I'll add that you never know what will happen if talks break down with the Clips.  There will likely be another team interested in dealing for Doc.

Re: It seems Boston has all the leverage
« Reply #27 on: June 16, 2013, 06:33:47 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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Reason Clippers want Bledsoe is not because Rivers wants to coach him ,  thats smoke, they absolutely NEED Bledsoe as trade bait with Blake Griffin to get Dwight Howard.   

The ONLY trade chance they have to get Dwight Howard is a SLIM one based on trading Bledsoe and Griffin for Howard..... they need this to also appease CP3 and Howard apparent marriage to each other .

Problem is Danny wants him too as part of the Celtics compensation pkg.

So it up to the CLippers ,   take Hollins and HOPE LA takes Bledsoe and Griffin for Howard or  Get Doc and KG  and hope and pray CP3 doesn't bolt with DH to Houston

Clippers are hoping Celtics ( DA) will give up on Bledsoe ,  because there is ZERO chance Lakers will .

If I'm DANNY I  makem pay out the wahzoo , get bledsoe and take JETS contract or NO DOC  period to Clippers .

CP3 will follow DH if he is allowed to walk to Houston ,  Clippers know that and this will screw up all their plans .

I think Lakers and Boston should sit tight  and let the pot boil .

At the least both Boston and Lakers will be rid of a bunch of money when their aging stars depart. Might be better to wait it out ONE MORE YEAR

Most of this group of chaos will end in a couple weeks when DH is a free agent or resigns with Lakers.

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« Last Edit: June 16, 2013, 06:45:31 PM by SHAQATTACK »

Re: It seems Boston has all the leverage
« Reply #28 on: June 16, 2013, 06:43:39 PM »

Offline connor

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The problem with the OP's idea is that it is predicated on the false pretense that we could use the money saved from KG and PP leaving to go after a free agent, which is unfortunately not true. Check it:
http://www.celticsblog.com/2013/2/14/3988242/cap-questions-could-josh-smith-replace-kg-and-pierce

Basically we would be stuck with our current roster and enough money to make some minor moves, but nothing like the max deals of Josh Smith or Big Al you suggest (its possible, but HIGHLY unlikely and wouldn't benefit us long-term).

If we want to tank hardcore then yeah that probably does it, but thats an awful strategy.

Too many people have the wrong idea about what we could potentially do if KG and PP retire.

Re: It seems Boston has all the leverage
« Reply #29 on: June 16, 2013, 06:44:35 PM »

Offline Birdman

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If we make the trade, we wont be in the lottery next season..we still be better than Orlando, Charlotte, Detroit, Toronto, Washington, Cleveland, 76'ers, Atlanta
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