It seems Boston has all the leverage

[LarBrd33]

The way it seems to me is that Boston has all the leverage. 

First let's get a couple things out of the way.  THis draft is supposed to be terrible.  I'm normally all about acquiring draft picks, but if this draft is as bad as everyone says and a late 1st rounder is equal to an average 2nd rounder in a normal draft... who cares whether or we get the picks or not.  We're talking about D-league talent here.  Is it better to have D-League talent on guaranteed contracts... or would you rather just use the roster spots to sign some D-leaguers to non-guaranteed deals?  Whatever.

#2 - Jordan makes 10 mil this year and 11 mil next year.  He's a 25 year old big man who just averaged 3 points, 6 boards and 1 block in the playoffs.  He's not an impact player.  He's kind of overpaid.  Theoretically, if you had 10 million dollars in cap space... you probably wouldn't want to spend it on DeAndre Jordan. 

#3 - Bledsoe.  Meh.  I don't get the fascination, but maybe it's just me.  He's a backup guard.  And regardless, the Clippers don't seem at all willing to trade him.

...

So we're talking about trading KG and buying out Pierce so we can get the above bag of "meh" assets.  Boston has Doc under contract for 3 seasons with a no-compete clause... so he can't coach another team unless we LET him coach another team.   

The threat is that the Clippers will walk away and hire Lionel Hollins... and that Boston will be stuck with "nothing".   Let me ask you... does that really even matter?  Would be be so bad to get stuck with "nothing"?

Clearly we'd do this trade in an effort to tank.  And hope that the marginal Jordan/late 1st rounder assets would be worth something.   But if we do this deal, we're still over the cap.  We'll still be over the cap next year as well.  Rondo + green + jordan + bass + Lee + Terry + Bradley + rookies ... you're over the cap. 

So what happens if things break down here?  Doc threatens retirement?  Ok.   Would KG follow him out the door?  Fine.   Would Pierce follow him as well?  Cool.  Big deal.  WE don't get overpaid Jordan and a couple weak rookies on a par with D-Leaguers.

Either way, we're tanking for Wiggins.  Either way, we're trying to lose games next year in an effort to jump-start this franchise with a top 5 pick in 2014.  But the idea of Doc, KG and Pierce just "walking away" actually sounds somewhat appealing.   In that theoretical scenario, you'd actually only have Rondo 12 mil, Green 9 mil, Bass 6.4 mil, Lee 5.2 mil, Terry 5.2 mil, Bradley 2.5 mil, 16th pick 1.6 mil, Crawford 2 mil = about 44 million dollars.  With a cap set at 58 million... doesn't that mean we'd actually theoretically have cap space to offer Josh Smith or Big Al?

Then the question really boils down to... would you rather have DeAndre Jordan making 11 mil and some crappy late 1st roudner in this draft.. or would you rather just see KG, Doc, and Pierce all retire and have enough cap space to sign Josh Smith or Big Al? 

Think about it.  Who has the leverage here?  You want to retire?  Good!  Even better than that garbage trade we were considering.  And then we don't have to watch you try to win a title in LA.   Am I wrong?

And Btw, hopefully from the CLippers perspective they can convince CHris Paul to sign with them when they plan on hiring Hollins and not bringing in Doc and KG.  Good luck there, LA.

[Evantime34]

I think the Clippers have all the leverage.

They have already had other offers for Bledsoe.

It has been reported that KG would only go to the Clippers.So we have one option and they have multiple.

[LarBrd33]

I think the Clippers have all the leverage.

They have already had other offers for Bledsoe.

It has been reported that KG would only go to the Clippers.So we have one option and they have multiple.

WHy do we only have one option.  We could just hang onto KG.  If KG wants to retire... cool.  Who cares?  We aren't missing out on anything substantial.   Bledsoe isn't a big deal and he's not a possibility anyways... the Clippers aren't interested in trading him.

Again, it boils down to... would you rather trade KG (and buy out Pierce so he can join the Clippers) for Jordan and be stuck with him making 10-11 mil a year?  Or would you rather see KG and Pierce retire and use cap space on whatever you want.

If Doc quits to become a broadcaster, KG is very likely to retire.  If KG and Doc are gone, Pierce probably calls it quits as well.   Then suddenly you have about 14 million in cap space that you can spend however you see fit... as opposed to having nothing but DeAndre Jordan and some garbage D-Leaguers for some wonky trade where we sent KG, Pierce and Doc to the Clippers.

[fantankerous]

I think the Clippers have all the leverage.

They have already had other offers for Bledsoe.

It has been reported that KG would only go to the Clippers.So we have one option and they have multiple.

It feels like you didn't even bother to read the OP.  We have the option to do nothing, which may be a better option than the LAC trade.

[Afam]

I think the Clippers have all the leverage.

They have already had other offers for Bledsoe.

It has been reported that KG would only go to the Clippers.So we have one option and they have multiple.

Clippers have zero leverage none what's so ever. I don't get why people keeping saying that we are going to a rebuilding mode anyways so we have to lose by letting Kg retire along with Paul pierce .  Nothing. The Original poster explained it perfectly. I rather do that than get this garbage of an offer from the clippers.

[erisred]

I think the Clippers have all the leverage.

They have already had other offers for Bledsoe.

It has been reported that KG would only go to the Clippers.So we have one option and they have multiple.

If we *really* want to make *this* deal, then yeah, the Clippers have the leverage. OTOH, what if we don't really care that much?

What we seem to know is this: KG will go to the Clippers; Doc is interested in going there; and CP3 seems to want them there. We can also assume that Danny, Wyc and the Celtics have decided that starting the rebuild *now* is a top option. Perhaps not the only option, but a (or the) top option.

Danny is exploring a way to get both KG and Doc where they want to go, but he wants something in return. We want to get some useful assets for doing the Clippers and two (or three if Pierce is involved) guys a good turn. If the Clips won't cough up what Danny wants, he can just walk away and move on to the next option on his list. No telling what that might be.

[slamtheking]

one of the few times I agree with you -- for the most part.

I don't agree that next year they'd be in the lottery.  If Rondo and Sully are back playing at the level they played at last year, Green seems to be on track now and a rotation-quality player with #16 added this year, this team gets back in the playoffs.  Also, I'd be surprised if one of AB, JET, Lee or Crawford doesn't find his shot next year and establishes themselves as the primary 2 guard-->too many guys that just couldn't find the bottom of the bucket all at the same time.

if PP and KG then retire, figure a probable lottery team for the 2015 draft which figures to be pretty good if for no other reason than the good players who pull out of the 2014 draft to increase their draft slots significantly.  Maybe no Wiggins or Parker but some really good cornerstone prospects.

[BleedGreen1989]

I have purposely stayed out of these talks. I think what sparked most of our interest is the original deal involving Bledsoe/Jordan/2 first rounders. I think most of us would balk at what turned out to be Jordan and a 1st rounder.

When it comes to the 1st deal, Boston does not really have much leverage. Clippers can simply walk away and say no thanks. This in turn does not destroy Boston or make us horrible but we have no way to leverage them into a deal.

Whether you're a fan of Bledsoe or not, he has significant trade value and LA could simply trade him for something else.

[fantankerous]

The claim about having the necessary cap space to sign a big free agent if PP and KG retire is false though.  With cap holds, we would have way less than 10m in cap space.  We'd have to move at least one of our mid-size contracts for nothing.

[hpantazo]

Yep, Boston has all the leverage here, and the Clippers know it, and they hate it. That's why they are the ones leaking out all these bits and pieces to the media, to try to push perception in their favor. They are the ones who leaked the original story out, and then leaked out that "Ainge is asking for a king's ransom" and that "the Clippers won't budge".

Really? A king's ransom? Bledsoe and Jordan are not Anthony Davis or Ricky Rubio, and two picks in the 24-30 range are nothing to cry about either. It's offensive to consider trading KG for DeAndre Jordan and a late pick.

They are the ones that desperately need this trade to keep Chris Paul. The celtics can do nothing, let KG and Pierce retire or leave, and are fine either way.

This is exactly why Ainge should not budge at all, excellent explanation in the first post, TP.

[LarBrd33]

There shouldn't be any pressure for Boston to make a move.  We have Doc, KG and Pierce under contract.  They can either play here next season (a lot of fans would be happy with that)... or they can all retire and we can use the 14 mil in cap space to sign someone like Big Al or Smith... or just hang onto it for next season.

There should be considerable pressure for the Clippers, though.  There is no guarantee that Chris Paul resigns.  He could go to Dallas.  He could go to Houston.  He could go to Atlanta.  One or two small tweaks to a roster like Dallas and both he and Dwight could join a team together.  Meanwhile, Chris apparently doesn't like playing with Blake Griffin and DeAndre Jordan.  He clashes with them frequently.  And they currently don't even have a coach.   The pressure is all on the Clippers... Chris apparently is the one driving for them to bring in Doc and KG (and Pierce).  Chris is apparently the reason the Clippers are interested in trading Griffin and Bledsoe for Howard.  ALL the pressure is on the Clippers.  They should be desperate to do anything they need to convince Chris Paul to resign with them.  Boston doesn't have to do squat.  WE can hang onto our guys or they can retire.  Either way, we good.   If the Clippers don't do something drastic, THEY are the one who stands to lose in a big way (if Chris flees).

Also... I'll say it again.  If Chris Paul is that desperate to be coached by Doc Rivers and play with KG and Pierce... if I'm Danny Ainge I call the CLippers and say, "Hey... since our trade fell apart and you guys might lose Chris for nothing.  I just want to let you know that we're willing to trade you Rajon Rondo if you can convince Chris to agree to a sign-and-trade with Boston.  I figured you'd guys rather have Rondo (broken ACL and all) than get stuck with nothing.  Lemme know.  All my love - Danny"

[hpantazo]

I have purposely stayed out of these talks. I think what sparked most of our interest is the original deal involving Bledsoe/Jordan/2 first rounders. I think most of us would balk at what turned out to be Jordan and a 1st rounder.

When it comes to the 1st deal, Boston does not really have much leverage. Clippers can simply walk away and say no thanks. This in turn does not destroy Boston or make us horrible but we have no way to leverage them into a deal.

Whether you're a fan of Bledsoe or not, he has significant trade value and LA could simply trade him for something else.

That's not the point. The point is that this trade for the Clippers is about making Chris Paul happy enough to re-sign. There are not any other reasonable options out there for them to do so. Would getting Afflialo for Bledsoe convince Paul to re-sign when he has already stated he wants KG and Doc? I don't think so,

[LarBrd33]

The claim about having the necessary cap space to sign a big free agent if PP and KG retire is false though.  With cap holds, we would have way less than 10m in cap space.  We'd have to move at least one of our mid-size contracts for nothing.

Elaborate.  If Kg and PIerce retire, don't they fall off the books?  Count up who is left under contract and it's about 44 mil.  WHy would there be a cap hold if they retire?

[lightspeed5]

exactly, doc certifies cp3 stays.

[hpantazo]

There shouldn't be any pressure for Boston to make a move.  We have Doc, KG and Pierce under contract.  They can either player here next season (a lot of fans would be happy with that)... or they can all retire and we can use the 14 mil in cap space to sign someone like Big Al or Smith... or just hang onto it for next season.

There should be considerable pressure for the Clippers, though.  There is no guarantee that Chris Paul resigns.  He could go to Dallas.  He could go to Houston.  He could go to Atlanta.  One or two small tweaks to a roster like Dallas and both he and Dwight could join a team together. Meanwhile, Chris apparently doesn't like playing with Blake Griffin and DeAndre Jordan.  He clashes with them frequently.  And they currently don't even have a coach.   The pressure is all on the Clippers... Chris apparently is the one driving for them to bring in Doc and KG (and Pierce).  Chris is apparently the reason the Clippers are interested in trading Griffin and Bledsoe for Howard.  ALL the pressure is on the Clippers.  They should be desperate to do anything they need to convince Chris Paul to resign with them.  Boston doesn't have to do squat.  WE can hang onto our guys or they can retire.  Either way, we good.   If the Clippers don't do something drastic, THEY are the one who stands to lose in a big way (if Chris flees).

Also... I'll say it again.  If Chris Paul is that desperate to be coached by Doc Rivers and play with KG and Pierce... if I'm Danny Ainge I call the CLippers and say, "Hey... since our trade fell apart and you guys might lose Chris for nothing.  I just want to let you know that we're willing to trade you Rajon Rondo if you can convince Chris to agree to a sign-and-trade with Boston.  I figured you'd guys rather have Rondo (broken ACL and all) than get stuck with nothing.  Lemme know.  All my love - Danny"

Well put. We could even help Dallas or Houston get enough cap space to sign Howard or Paul by trading them Pierce before his buyout date. If I were Ainge, I would tell the Clippers if you don't like our deal, then we will consider Dallas' interest in acquiring Pierce's contract, which they actually did consider last season before the trade deadline.