Author Topic: Would it make sense for Golden State to sell high on Steph Curry?  (Read 4810 times)

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Re: Would it make sense for Golden State to sell high on Steph Curry?
« Reply #15 on: May 29, 2013, 05:39:28 PM »

Offline #1P4P

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at the time of that discussed trade, (December 2011) ... Steph Curry was dealing with chronic ankle issues and sharing the ball with ball-hog Monta Ellis.  Rondo was fully healthy and the starting point guard on a contender.  Even then, I was largely in support of it, because I felt Curry was being held back and his ankle issues reminded me of Ray Ray before he came to Seattle.  Also, at the time, it would have freed up a bunch of additional cap space for us since Curry was on his rookie deal... and the idea of Curry sharing a back court with Ray Allen sounded epic to me. 

Still... Golden State turned us down.  They preferred hanging onto their gimpy underachieving shooter than trade him for an all-star bricklayer like ROndo.


At this point, Rondo, who lead his team to a sub .500 record before getting injured, is coming off major ACL surgery (which ROse still hasn't returned from over a year later)... Curry has finally reached his potential and lead a team a couple rounds into the playoffs.  Curry has proven to be one of the best shooters in the league.

Zero chance Golden State does it. 

TL;DR:  Golden State turned down the opportunity to sell low on Steph Curry for Rondo when his stock was high.  No chance they'd sell high on Curry while Rondo's stock is at an all-time low

TP... After reading the OP, I was about to post similar thoughts on this, the bold being the main point, but it would be redundant because you were spot on.

I was really hoping Rondo for Curry went through the trade deadline before last. Curry's just the better option to take for building a successful title contender. A championship contender does not need a premier distributor, but it does need a premier scorer (that statement being the rule for championship teams of the past); and Curry is a premier scorer and shooter.

At this point, Curry's value is at a point where he'll only be traded for Lebron, Durant, an established young all star and another promising player or a lottery pick (the Aldridge/Lillard example is a good one).
« Last Edit: May 29, 2013, 05:46:12 PM by #1P4P »

Re: Would it make sense for Golden State to sell high on Steph Curry?
« Reply #16 on: May 29, 2013, 06:06:11 PM »

Offline Celtics18

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at the time of that discussed trade, (December 2011) ... Steph Curry was dealing with chronic ankle issues and sharing the ball with ball-hog Monta Ellis.  Rondo was fully healthy and the starting point guard on a contender.  Even then, I was largely in support of it, because I felt Curry was being held back and his ankle issues reminded me of Ray Ray before he came to Seattle.  Also, at the time, it would have freed up a bunch of additional cap space for us since Curry was on his rookie deal... and the idea of Curry sharing a back court with Ray Allen sounded epic to me. 

Still... Golden State turned us down.  They preferred hanging onto their gimpy underachieving shooter than trade him for an all-star bricklayer like ROndo.


At this point, Rondo, who lead his team to a sub .500 record before getting injured, is coming off major ACL surgery (which ROse still hasn't returned from over a year later)... Curry has finally reached his potential and lead a team a couple rounds into the playoffs.  Curry has proven to be one of the best shooters in the league.

Zero chance Golden State does it. 

TL;DR:  Golden State turned down the opportunity to sell low on Steph Curry for Rondo when his stock was high.  No chance they'd sell high on Curry while Rondo's stock is at an all-time low

TP... After reading the OP, I was about to post similar thoughts on this, the bold being the main point, but it would be redundant because you were spot on.

I was really hoping Rondo for Curry went through the trade deadline before last. Curry's just the better option to take for building a successful title contender. A championship contender does not need a premier distributor, but it does need a premier scorer (that statement being the rule for championship teams of the past); and Curry is a premier scorer and shooter.

At this point, Curry's value is at a point where he'll only be traded for Lebron, Durant, an established young all star and another promising player or a lottery pick (the Aldridge/Lillard example is a good one).

Steph Curry is an amazing shooter.  His ball handling, court vision, and all-around game all seem to be better than I had given him credit for, as well.

The biggest issues with Curry are his frailty and his lack of fitness and elite athleticism.  We saw him run out of gas against the Spurs in this year's playoffs.  For all his amazing performances early in the playoffs, he finished off on a fairly rough note. 

Even if he can work towards becoming more conditioned and having greater stamina, there will never be anything explosive about his game.  I guess the best comparison for him is Steve Nash.  Nash has never been known for being an elite athlete.  I think, though, that Nash has always had a better "motor" than Steph Curry. 
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Re: Would it make sense for Golden State to sell high on Steph Curry?
« Reply #17 on: May 29, 2013, 06:07:55 PM »

Offline #1P4P

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If I were them I'd be thinking the exact opposite: you have a #1 or #1a guy, now find him a #1b.

The Warriors have assets. Could they package some of them for Dwight? Or Danny Granger? Or Al Jefferson? Or Cousins? Horford? Josh Smith? Just throwing names out there, I haven't thought about any of the details.

Not all of those guys listed above are equal of course. But if they get one other guy who is (or could be) a perennial All-Star and a good fit with Curry, they can fill in the rest later. People will want to play there.

Lee for Smith should be an option that GS attempt to negotiate immediately; they're trying to become a defensive team, Smith is one of the more versatile players in the league (a solid 2nd option, but a great 3rd option if Thompson can continue to develop), and they showed that they're a contender without Lee.

Dwight, Cousins, and Horford are above Lee's value and would require another asset (a 1st or another promising player) that might or might not be worth it depending on if they can keep the Jack-Curry-Thompson-Barnes nucleus intact in a trade.

Jefferson and Granger are a very intriguing options, but AJ's defense is a liability and Granger's value is at a low point so more would have to come back for Lee.

Re: Would it make sense for Golden State to sell high on Steph Curry?
« Reply #18 on: May 29, 2013, 06:24:22 PM »

Offline #1P4P

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at the time of that discussed trade, (December 2011) ... Steph Curry was dealing with chronic ankle issues and sharing the ball with ball-hog Monta Ellis.  Rondo was fully healthy and the starting point guard on a contender.  Even then, I was largely in support of it, because I felt Curry was being held back and his ankle issues reminded me of Ray Ray before he came to Seattle.  Also, at the time, it would have freed up a bunch of additional cap space for us since Curry was on his rookie deal... and the idea of Curry sharing a back court with Ray Allen sounded epic to me. 

Still... Golden State turned us down.  They preferred hanging onto their gimpy underachieving shooter than trade him for an all-star bricklayer like ROndo.


At this point, Rondo, who lead his team to a sub .500 record before getting injured, is coming off major ACL surgery (which ROse still hasn't returned from over a year later)... Curry has finally reached his potential and lead a team a couple rounds into the playoffs.  Curry has proven to be one of the best shooters in the league.

Zero chance Golden State does it. 

TL;DR:  Golden State turned down the opportunity to sell low on Steph Curry for Rondo when his stock was high.  No chance they'd sell high on Curry while Rondo's stock is at an all-time low

TP... After reading the OP, I was about to post similar thoughts on this, the bold being the main point, but it would be redundant because you were spot on.

I was really hoping Rondo for Curry went through the trade deadline before last. Curry's just the better option to take for building a successful title contender. A championship contender does not need a premier distributor, but it does need a premier scorer (that statement being the rule for championship teams of the past); and Curry is a premier scorer and shooter.

At this point, Curry's value is at a point where he'll only be traded for Lebron, Durant, an established young all star and another promising player or a lottery pick (the Aldridge/Lillard example is a good one).

Steph Curry is an amazing shooter.  His ball handling, court vision, and all-around game all seem to be better than I had given him credit for, as well.

The biggest issues with Curry are his frailty and his lack of fitness and elite athleticism.  We saw him run out of gas against the Spurs in this year's playoffs.  For all his amazing performances early in the playoffs, he finished off on a fairly rough note. 

Even if he can work towards becoming more conditioned and having greater stamina, there will never be anything explosive about his game.  I guess the best comparison for him is Steve Nash.  Nash has never been known for being an elite athlete.  I think, though, that Nash has always had a better "motor" than Steph Curry.

Curry's coming off of the shortest pro season in his career and his first foray into the playoffs, not to mention Popovich and the Spurs forcing him to work hard on offense and defense, so his lack of fitness is not that much of an issue. Neither is his motor because I haven't seen the kid languish enough to question it.

Curry's frailty is the real issue for me; he continues to roll his ankles because of the moves he makes. All you can do is have him wear an ankle sleeve and hope that he's able to develop safer technique with his footwork.

Re: Would it make sense for Golden State to sell high on Steph Curry?
« Reply #19 on: May 29, 2013, 06:48:49 PM »

Offline Atzar

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I don't think they can trade Curry at this point because I don't think they'd ever get fair value for him.  Frankly, I don't know what that value even is.  What do you pay for a streaky, injury-prone jumpshooter who struggles on defense?

At his best he can win you a series by himself; we saw that against Denver.  On the other hand, he wasn't nearly as effective against San Antonio.  If I'm a GM thinking about making an offer for Curry, I really worry about those ankles and I really wonder whether I can rely on him to beat good defensive teams.  He's proven that he can kill poor defensive teams, but in my mind the jury's still out on whether he can carry his team against good defenses. 

I think they'd struggle to come to an agreement with a team about how much a guy like that is worth.

Re: Would it make sense for Golden State to sell high on Steph Curry?
« Reply #20 on: May 29, 2013, 08:33:16 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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at the time of that discussed trade, (December 2011) ... Steph Curry was dealing with chronic ankle issues and sharing the ball with ball-hog Monta Ellis.  Rondo was fully healthy and the starting point guard on a contender.  Even then, I was largely in support of it, because I felt Curry was being held back and his ankle issues reminded me of Ray Ray before he came to Seattle.  Also, at the time, it would have freed up a bunch of additional cap space for us since Curry was on his rookie deal... and the idea of Curry sharing a back court with Ray Allen sounded epic to me. 

Still... Golden State turned us down.  They preferred hanging onto their gimpy underachieving shooter than trade him for an all-star bricklayer like ROndo.


At this point, Rondo, who lead his team to a sub .500 record before getting injured, is coming off major ACL surgery (which ROse still hasn't returned from over a year later)... Curry has finally reached his potential and lead a team a couple rounds into the playoffs.  Curry has proven to be one of the best shooters in the league.

Zero chance Golden State does it. 

TL;DR:  Golden State turned down the opportunity to sell low on Steph Curry for Rondo when his stock was high.  No chance they'd sell high on Curry while Rondo's stock is at an all-time low

http://www.celticstown.com/2012/02/29/rajon-rondo-trade-rumors-rondo-being-aggressively-shopped-stephen-curry-could-be-targetaccording-to-espn/

Is that the rumor that leads you to believe that Golden State turned Boston down in a proposed Rondo for Curry swap?

It sounds more like Chris Broussard can't decide--or more likely, has no clue--who turned who down.
There were multiple reports at the time (December 2011) about GOlden State turning us down.

Example:  https://twitter.com/timkawakami/status/144196733197484035

"NBA source: Celtics contacted Warriors about Rondo-for-Curry & were turned down. Presumably, Boston wanted to flip Curry to NO for Paul."

Example 2 via ESPN: http://espn.go.com/boston/nba/story/_/id/7631850/sources-boston-celtics-aggressively-trying-trade-guard-rajon-rondo

"Boston is aggressively shopping Rondo, according to sources. The Celtics find Rondo's personality to be too high-maintenance and his clashes with coach Doc Rivers continue. With the Celtics having realized they are no longer title contenders, they don't believe the payoff is worth the headaches Rondo brings, sources say. And they do not want to build around him. In December, the Celtics had discussions with Golden State about a Stephen Curry-for-Rondo deal, and one source says it was Golden State that decided against pulling the trigger. But Curry's recent ankle injuries, which have caused him several problems in his short career, have given the Celtics pause. The potential trade is still being discussed by Boston's braintrust, but they aren't sure they want to go forward with it. It also isn't clear whether the Warriors would be willing to do it. Other players would have to be thrown in to make it work financially."

Also, the Hornets tried to trade CP3 to Golden State for Curry, but Golden State didnt' have interest.  This was when Curry's stock was significantly lower than it is right now.  I see no way they trade him... especially for an injured player like Rondo who they already turned down trading for back in December 2011.

Also, all the talk about Curry's fragility is a bit overblown.  He played 80 games in 09-10, 70 games in 10-11 and 78 games this year.

You guys know that in the past 3 seasons, Rondo has missed 61 games.  Curry has only missed 42 games.  Food for thought.

Also, Bill SImmons went a little overboard with his trade value column this year, but he had Curry ranked #3 and Rondo ranked #36.  Even before the playoffs he had Curry ranked #16.

Here are Simmons' thoughts on Curry:

Quote
3. Stephen Curry
I already shot my wad on Curry in last Friday's column (the extended March Madness analogy), so let's defend what seems like an overreaction of a ranking. I love Curry, you love Curry, everyone loves Curry … but third? Really? Third out of anyone???? When he was no. 16 just five weeks ago? The top seven reasons why Curry snared the no. 3 spot, in no particular order:

Reason No. 1: Along with Kevin Durant, he's 2013's co-winner of the Derrick Rose Award for "Guy Whose City Would Riot If He Were Traded." Right now, the Golden Gate Bridge has a better chance of being traded than Steph Curry.

Reason No. 2: Here's what it looks like when a 25-year-old guy is making The Leap.

Post All-Star (30 games): 26.0 PPG, 7.4 APG, 48% FG, 89% FT, 46% 3FG, 8.9 3FGA.
2013 Playoffs (8 games): 26.5 PPG, 8.9 APG, 46% FG, 91% FT, 43% 3FG, 9.0 3FGA

And it goes beyond stats — the Warriors are winning with a team that is built around Curry's offense and personality. You're always looking for teams with identities in May, and here's Golden State's identity: Opponents can't leave Curry or Thompson open for a 3-pointer for 48 solid minutes. They aren't just stretching the floor, they're bending it into something else. When you're that panicked about staying close to two shooters, it affects every decision you make. That can't happen without Curry, who has assumed an even bigger offensive role with David Lee missing … only as Zach Lowe meticulously spelled out on Grantland today, Golden State's small-ball attack has taken off partly because he's handling the ball so much more. He's a franchise player now.21

Reason No. 3: It's only Year 4 for Curry. Reggie Miller peaked from Year 7 through Year 10. Ray Allen peaked in Year 5 and Year 6. Peja Stojakovic peaked in Year 6.22 Larry Bird peaked from Year 6 through Year 8. Dirk Nowitzki peaked from Year 7 through Year 9. Steve Nash peaked from Year 9 through Year 11. Glen Rice and Mitch Richmond peaked in Year 7. This is a roundabout way of telling you that Curry will probably create the 50-50-90 Club someday. It's in play.23 Along those same lines …

Reason No. 4: Mark Jackson is technically right — Golden State has the best shooting backcourt ever, although it's really the best long-range shooting backcourt ever. Check out the only 13 players (their best seasons only) who made at least 2.5 3s a game while (a) shooting at least 40 percent or higher, and (b) averaging at least 16.5 points per game (sorry, Damon Jones, Raja Bell and Kyle Korver).

Curry, 2013: 7.7 3FGA, 3.5 made, 45.3%
Allen, 2006: 8.4 3FGA, 3.4 made, 41.2%
Dennis Scott, 1996: 7.7 3FGA, 3.3 made, 42.5%
Peja, 2004: 6.8 3FGA, 3.0 made, 43.3%
Jason Richardson, 2008: 7.3 FGA, 3.0 made, 40.6%
Mike Miller, 2007: 7.1 3FGA, 2.9 made, 40.6%
Richmond, 1996: 6.8 3FGA, 2.8 made, 43.7%
Miller, 1997: 6.6 3FGA, 2.8 made, 42.7%
Rashard Lewis, 2008: 6.8 3FGA, 2.8 made, 40.9%
Danny Granger, 2009: 6.7 3FGA, 2.7 made, 40.4%
Thompson, 2013: 6.4 3FGA, 2.6 made, 40.1%
Paul Pierce, 2002: 6.3 3FGA, 2.6 made, 40.4%
Rice, 1997: 5.6 3FGA, 2.6 made, 47.0%

And the Warriors had TWO of those guys? And they still have room to improve? Yikes.

Reason No. 5: "Turn on the game, Steph Curry is heating up" is the single most exciting sports-related text you can send or receive right now. If I'm at dinner and you send me that text, I'm splitting toward the bar like a doctor who just had his "EMERGENCY!" beeper go off.

Reason No. 6: You can't come up with a better NBA match of "performer and crowd" than Curry and Oakland right now. They were meant for each other. It was destiny.

Reason No. 7:
Everyone else in our top 15 is getting paid the max next season, or [dang]ed close, except for Kyrie Irving (still on a rookie deal). Starting next year, Curry will make $44 million over the next four seasons.24 Translation: You're getting a franchise player for 45 percent off! It's like one of those Black Friday sales that Amazon has. That's the biggest reason Steph climbed to no. 3. Value plus performance plus results. He's like a fancy German car. I'm thoroughly enjoying the Steph Curry era.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2013, 08:46:52 PM by LarBrd33 »

Re: Would it make sense for Golden State to sell high on Steph Curry?
« Reply #21 on: May 29, 2013, 08:43:58 PM »

Offline abbmack9

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I don't think GS trades him even if his stock is at an all time high. What would be fair value for curry be in a trade anyway? Cp3? Rondo?

Re: Would it make sense for Golden State to sell high on Steph Curry?
« Reply #22 on: May 29, 2013, 09:11:55 PM »

Offline Celtics18

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There were multiple reports at the time (December 2011) about GOlden State turning us down.


"Boston is aggressively shopping Rondo, according to sources. The Celtics find Rondo's personality to be too high-maintenance and his clashes with coach Doc Rivers continue. With the Celtics having realized they are no longer title contenders, they don't believe the payoff is worth the headaches Rondo brings, sources say. And they do not want to build around him. In December, the Celtics had discussions with Golden State about a Stephen Curry-for-Rondo deal, and one source says it was Golden State that decided against pulling the trigger. But Curry's recent ankle injuries, which have caused him several problems in his short career, have given the Celtics pause. The potential trade is still being discussed by Boston's braintrust, but they aren't sure they want to go forward with it. It also isn't clear whether the Warriors would be willing to do it. Other players would have to be thrown in to make it work financially."





That's the one that it all comes down to, and that I keep seeing.  "It was Golden State that decided against pulling the trigger" and "but Curry's ankle injuries . . .  have given the Celtics pause,"  then, "they (the Celtics) aren't sure they want to go forward with it" and "it also isn't clear whether the Warriors would be willing to do it." 

That's a lot of waffling in one short paragraph about who actually backed out of the deal.  My guess is that the original reporter (I think it was Broussard) doesn't actually know much more than that there were "talks."

The fact that you turn this paragraph into a clear cut case that the Warriors turned the Celtics down for a Rondo/Curry swap shows more about your own personal biases than it does about what actually went on between the management of the two franchises. 
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Re: Would it make sense for Golden State to sell high on Steph Curry?
« Reply #23 on: May 29, 2013, 09:45:13 PM »

Offline LooseCannon

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For all we know, Ainge wanted a first-round pick out of the deal and Golden State wouldn't budge on coughing one up, but were interested in negotiating if they didn't have to.
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Re: Would it make sense for Golden State to sell high on Steph Curry?
« Reply #24 on: May 29, 2013, 11:25:12 PM »

Offline nostar

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You're talking like Lillard/Aldridge for Curry.

Too much.

It's a tough spot for Golden State, though.  Curry has so much talent that you basically have to keep him around.  At the same time, his ankles are made of glass, and could end up being a chronic issue.  You'd hate to commit max dollars to that.

These are my thoughts exactly. If I was the Warrior's GM I'd probably explore something with Sacramento or Washington.

If you can bring back someone like Wall or Cousins and rid yourself of Biedrins or Jefferson then I'd make that move.

Curry+Jefferson for Wall+Ariza would work $-wise
Cousins+7th pick for Curry works too.

Not sure they make GS better but I think Curry will be a short-lived star and that would make me inclined to shop him.

Re: Would it make sense for Golden State to sell high on Steph Curry?
« Reply #25 on: May 30, 2013, 12:00:42 AM »

Offline BballTim

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At this point, Rondo, who lead his team to a sub .500 record before getting injured, is coming off major ACL surgery (which ROse still hasn't returned from over a year later)... Curry has finally reached his potential and lead a team a couple rounds into the playoffs.  Curry has proven to be one of the best shooters in the league.


  Haha. Not only has Curry only won a total of 1 playoff series in his career, he's older than Rondo was when he led a team to the finals, beating the best team in the league (with the best player in the league) in the process. I'd wonder how likely you think it is he'll do either of those things in the near future, let alone both of them?

  It's true that Rondo was the 4th best player on the Celts when they won the title but he's probably had about as much postseason success in his 3 healthy playoffs since then as many of the players you're hoping to dump him for will have in their careers.

Re: Would it make sense for Golden State to sell high on Steph Curry?
« Reply #26 on: May 30, 2013, 12:03:00 AM »

Offline LarBrd33

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At this point, Rondo, who lead his team to a sub .500 record before getting injured, is coming off major ACL surgery (which ROse still hasn't returned from over a year later)... Curry has finally reached his potential and lead a team a couple rounds into the playoffs.  Curry has proven to be one of the best shooters in the league.

...

  It's true that Rondo was the 4th best player on the Celts when they won the title

...

Agreed.  Love the guy.  My favorite player on the team.  I would have traded him for Curry in 2011 and I would trade him for Curry now without blinking (especially considering Rondo's ACL injury).

Golden State wouldn't even consider it at this point. 

Re: Would it make sense for Golden State to sell high on Steph Curry?
« Reply #27 on: May 30, 2013, 12:07:52 AM »

Offline lightspeed5

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golden state has the hottest shooting backcourt in the game, and it fell into their lap. a team in the NBA has to take a shot at curry's risk, it might as well be golden state right?

theyre not trading curry.

Re: Would it make sense for Golden State to sell high on Steph Curry?
« Reply #28 on: May 30, 2013, 12:10:41 AM »

Offline indeedproceed

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You're talking like Lillard/Aldridge for Curry.

Too much.

It's a tough spot for Golden State, though.  Curry has so much talent that you basically have to keep him around.  At the same time, his ankles are made of glass, and could end up being a chronic issue.  You'd hate to commit max dollars to that.

Right, that's exactly my point. It's not unlike our own situation with Rondo. Curry just has so much value for GSW right now that they'd need an almost unreal offer to entertain moving him.

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like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: Would it make sense for Golden State to sell high on Steph Curry?
« Reply #29 on: May 30, 2013, 12:18:06 AM »

Offline BballTim

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At this point, Rondo, who lead his team to a sub .500 record before getting injured, is coming off major ACL surgery (which ROse still hasn't returned from over a year later)... Curry has finally reached his potential and lead a team a couple rounds into the playoffs.  Curry has proven to be one of the best shooters in the league.

...

  It's true that Rondo was the 4th best player on the Celts when they won the title

...

Agreed.  Love the guy.  My favorite player on the team.


  That's like someone saying that KG's been their favorite player since he came into the league and then remarking that they've never been impressed by his defense and that he's never been all that great a rebounder either. I suppose it's great that you love him in a "I don't understand what's so great about his game or what he adds to the team" kind of way.