Insider Trade Idea: Rondo to New Orleans

[LarBrd33]

I think Rondo is being overvalued WAAAAAY too much on this board.

If I could get a decent PG and a no 6 overall pick for Rondo, I'd do it.

Guarantee you will not see a better trade offer for an oft-injured turnover prone PG.

Fyi, there are also some pretty decent players available at the no 6 selection including centers Cody Zeller, Alex Len, Kelly Olynyk and Steven Adams in addition to PG Trey Burke.

Well, yeah. Rondo has historically been way overvalued on this board.

But this offer still doesn't intrigue me.

Point guards I can find. I want a big for Rondo.

Yup. This league is littered with good PGs but if Rondo is going I want a LaMarcus Aldridge, Kevin Love, or Nikola Pekovic type player coming back. Not saying those exact guys but guys like that.

Issue is... in a league littered with point guards, you probably aren't going to get a star quality big man for one. 

[JOMVP]

But what if you could turn that pick #6 into a big? Say you flip the number 6 pick, Courtney Lee, Brandon Bass and Fab Melo to Utah for their 14th pick and Al Jefferson? Draft Shroeder with 14, draft Adams or Dieng with 16 and our roster for next year:

Vasquez - Schroeder - Barbosa
Bradley - Terry - Pierce - Barbosa
Green - Pierce - Pietrus
KG - Sullinger - Green
Al Jefferson - Dieng - KG

Farfetch'd? Sure. But Ithink that roster is pretty good. Sets you up for the future and present.

[nostar]

When healthy Rondo is a top-20 player. When healthy and in the playoffs Rondo is a top-5 player.

Grevies Vasquez is not a valuable asset if we're rebuilding and the #7 overall pick nets you something akin to Shabazz Mohammed.

I'm sorry but Rondo is a superstar and nothing about Vasquez or the #7 pick entices me enough to trade him.

[LarBrd33]

When healthy Rondo is a top-20 player. When healthy and in the playoffs Rondo is a top-5 player.

Grevies Vasquez is not a valuable asset if we're rebuilding and the #7 overall pick nets you something akin to Shabazz Mohammed.

I'm sorry but Rondo is a superstar and nothing about Vasquez or the #7 pick entices me enough to trade him.

Last year Rondo was the #29 best player statistically in the regular season.  #82 Per 48 minutes.

In the playoffs he was #3 behind only Durant and LeBron.  #12 per 48 minutes... Rondo's minutes were ridiculous in the playoffs that year and inflated his stats.

This season, Rondo was having the best stats of his career prior to his injury (although Boston was below .500).  He was #18 Statistically.   #62 per 48 minutes.

Can't really disagree with you aside from calling him a "superstar".  He's a former all-star... a very good player.  Rondo is a top 10 PG in the league... probably within the top 40 players in the league.  But not a superstar.  He's proven he can be a key part of a contender (4th best player on our team in 2008 and 3rd best player on our team in 2010)... But if Boston is losing KG and Pierce (who are more important to this team's success than Rondo), we're headed towards the Lotto and a lengthy rebuild.  Might as well start loading up on young assets and cap space to try to expedite the process.  Tank and put yourself in position to either draft a superstar or sign one as a free agent.  Standing pat with mediocre talent is just going to prolong the process and make it harder to significantly improve.  You gotta get bad to get good in this league.  So yeah, you'd have to consider a trade like this if you're looking at the "big picture" of a rebuild.

That said... this draft supposedly is garbage.  You'd hope we could at least get a top 5 pick for Rondo in a normal draft... not the #6 pick in a garbage one.


... But if we had a 3rd team involved and somehow were able to package #6 + our #16 for the #2 pick where we could take Nerlens Noel... I'm back on board.

[syfy9]

When healthy Rondo is a top-20 player. When healthy and in the playoffs Rondo is a top-5 player.

Grevies Vasquez is not a valuable asset if we're rebuilding and the #7 overall pick nets you something akin to Shabazz Mohammed.

I'm sorry but Rondo is a superstar and nothing about Vasquez or the #7 pick entices me enough to trade him.

Last year Rondo was the #29 best player statistically in the regular season.  #82 Per 48 minutes.

In the playoffs he was #3 behind only Durant and LeBron.  #12 per 48 minutes... Rondo's minutes were ridiculous in the playoffs that year and inflated his stats.

This season, Rondo was having the best stats of his career prior to his injury (although Boston was below .500).  He was #18 Statistically.   #62 per 48 minutes.

Can't really disagree with you aside from calling him a "superstar".  He's a former all-star... a very good player.  Rondo is a top 10 PG in the league... probably within the top 40 players in the league.  But not a superstar.  He's proven he can be a key part of a contender (4th best player on our team in 2008 and 3rd best player on our team in 2010)... But if Boston is losing KG and Pierce (who are more important to this team's success than Rondo), we're headed towards the Lotto and a lengthy rebuild.  Might as well start loading up on young assets and cap space to try to expedite the process.  Tank and put yourself in position to either draft a superstar or sign one as a free agent.  Standing pat with mediocre talent is just going to prolong the process and make it harder to significantly improve.  You gotta get bad to get good in this league.  So yeah, you'd have to consider a trade like this if you're looking at the "big picture" of a rebuild.

That said... this draft supposedly is garbage.  You'd hope we could at least get a top 5 pick for Rondo in a normal draft... not the #6 pick in a garbage one.


... But if we had a 3rd team involved and somehow were able to package #6 + our #16 for the #2 pick where we could take Nerlens Noel... I'm back on board.

I wouldn't call him a superstar either, but I'd say he consistently elevates his game in the postseason. He plays like a superstar in the playoffs, and that's what matters most.

[lightspeed5]

a crappy pick in a very weak draft for the best passer in the game? no.

[LarBrd33]

When healthy Rondo is a top-20 player. When healthy and in the playoffs Rondo is a top-5 player.

Grevies Vasquez is not a valuable asset if we're rebuilding and the #7 overall pick nets you something akin to Shabazz Mohammed.

I'm sorry but Rondo is a superstar and nothing about Vasquez or the #7 pick entices me enough to trade him.

Last year Rondo was the #29 best player statistically in the regular season.  #82 Per 48 minutes.

In the playoffs he was #3 behind only Durant and LeBron.  #12 per 48 minutes... Rondo's minutes were ridiculous in the playoffs that year and inflated his stats.

This season, Rondo was having the best stats of his career prior to his injury (although Boston was below .500).  He was #18 Statistically.   #62 per 48 minutes.

Can't really disagree with you aside from calling him a "superstar".  He's a former all-star... a very good player.  Rondo is a top 10 PG in the league... probably within the top 40 players in the league.  But not a superstar.  He's proven he can be a key part of a contender (4th best player on our team in 2008 and 3rd best player on our team in 2010)... But if Boston is losing KG and Pierce (who are more important to this team's success than Rondo), we're headed towards the Lotto and a lengthy rebuild.  Might as well start loading up on young assets and cap space to try to expedite the process.  Tank and put yourself in position to either draft a superstar or sign one as a free agent.  Standing pat with mediocre talent is just going to prolong the process and make it harder to significantly improve.  You gotta get bad to get good in this league.  So yeah, you'd have to consider a trade like this if you're looking at the "big picture" of a rebuild.

That said... this draft supposedly is garbage.  You'd hope we could at least get a top 5 pick for Rondo in a normal draft... not the #6 pick in a garbage one.


... But if we had a 3rd team involved and somehow were able to package #6 + our #16 for the #2 pick where we could take Nerlens Noel... I'm back on board.

I wouldn't call him a superstar either, but I'd say he consistently elevates his game in the postseason. He plays like a superstar in the playoffs, and that's what matters most.

I get that.  My only issue with that is that the two years he had his biggest playoff performances were in 09 where we overachieved into round 2 without kg... And 2012 where where beat atlanta (without horford) and the 8th seed Philly team.   We have evidence that he raises his game in the playoffs, but it's sort of a small sample size and in 2012 it was partially due to who he was playing against and the fact he was averaging 43 minutes a game.   It wouldn't take much for the "playoff mode superstar rondo" myth to die. It would just take one lackluster series were rondo's celtics get swept in round 1.   

Other problem... He's coming off acl surgery.  Acl surgery kept rose out for over a year and he still hasnt returned. We don't know what rondo will look like post surgery.  He will be approaching 30 years old.  And if we lose kg and pierce, we are a 25-38 win team.  What good does "playoff superstar mode rondo" do us if we aren't making the playoffs.   Makes some sense to trade him for young bluechip prospects that fit into a lengthy rebuild schedule.   

If you get a solid offer during the deadline from some team willing to take the rondo risk, do you take it?... Or risk waiting to see if rondo gets exposed post-injury and watch his trade value Plummet.

Ultimately none of these hypotheticals matter, because I can't see a team giving up anything substantial for rondo until they see him return from his injury.

[BballTim]

When healthy Rondo is a top-20 player. When healthy and in the playoffs Rondo is a top-5 player.

Grevies Vasquez is not a valuable asset if we're rebuilding and the #7 overall pick nets you something akin to Shabazz Mohammed.

I'm sorry but Rondo is a superstar and nothing about Vasquez or the #7 pick entices me enough to trade him.

Last year Rondo was the #29 best player statistically in the regular season.  #82 Per 48 minutes.

In the playoffs he was #3 behind only Durant and LeBron.  #12 per 48 minutes... Rondo's minutes were ridiculous in the playoffs that year and inflated his stats.

This season, Rondo was having the best stats of his career prior to his injury (although Boston was below .500).  He was #18 Statistically.   #62 per 48 minutes.

Can't really disagree with you aside from calling him a "superstar".  He's a former all-star... a very good player.  Rondo is a top 10 PG in the league... probably within the top 40 players in the league.  But not a superstar.  He's proven he can be a key part of a contender (4th best player on our team in 2008 and 3rd best player on our team in 2010)... But if Boston is losing KG and Pierce (who are more important to this team's success than Rondo), we're headed towards the Lotto and a lengthy rebuild.  Might as well start loading up on young assets and cap space to try to expedite the process.  Tank and put yourself in position to either draft a superstar or sign one as a free agent.  Standing pat with mediocre talent is just going to prolong the process and make it harder to significantly improve.  You gotta get bad to get good in this league.  So yeah, you'd have to consider a trade like this if you're looking at the "big picture" of a rebuild.

That said... this draft supposedly is garbage.  You'd hope we could at least get a top 5 pick for Rondo in a normal draft... not the #6 pick in a garbage one.


... But if we had a 3rd team involved and somehow were able to package #6 + our #16 for the #2 pick where we could take Nerlens Noel... I'm back on board.

I wouldn't call him a superstar either, but I'd say he consistently elevates his game in the postseason. He plays like a superstar in the playoffs, and that's what matters most.

I get that.  My only issue with that is that the two years he had his biggest playoff performances were in 09 where we overachieved into round 2 without kg... And 2012 where where beat atlanta (without horford) and the 8th seed Philly team.   We have evidence that he raises his game in the playoffs, but it's sort of a small sample size and in 2012 it was partially due to who he was playing against and the fact he was averaging 43 minutes a game.   It wouldn't take much for the "playoff mode superstar rondo" myth to die. It would just take one lackluster series were rondo's celtics get swept in round 1.   

  You're ignoring 2010 when he led the Celts past the Cavs and 2011 when he was averaging 17/7/11 until his elbow injury. In short, great play in the playoffs in each of the last 4 years. That's not really a small sample size, it's 66 games, and his points/rebounds/assists over that time (even though he's just entering his prime) is fairly comparable to the numbers most of the all-time greats put up during their primes.

  And, again, "who he played against" in 2012 were the 3rd, 4th and 6th best defenses in the league. I know you're trying to diminish what Rondo did but bringing up his opponents *hurts* your case.

[indeedproceed]

No need to superimpose motive here guys. Having a difference in opinion doesn't mean it's a master plan to discredit a player.

[Celtics18]

When healthy Rondo is a top-20 player. When healthy and in the playoffs Rondo is a top-5 player.

Grevies Vasquez is not a valuable asset if we're rebuilding and the #7 overall pick nets you something akin to Shabazz Mohammed.

I'm sorry but Rondo is a superstar and nothing about Vasquez or the #7 pick entices me enough to trade him.

Last year Rondo was the #29 best player statistically in the regular season.  #82 Per 48 minutes.

In the playoffs he was #3 behind only Durant and LeBron.  #12 per 48 minutes... Rondo's minutes were ridiculous in the playoffs that year and inflated his stats.

This season, Rondo was having the best stats of his career prior to his injury (although Boston was below .500).  He was #18 Statistically.   #62 per 48 minutes.

Can't really disagree with you aside from calling him a "superstar".  He's a former all-star... a very good player.  Rondo is a top 10 PG in the league... probably within the top 40 players in the league.  But not a superstar.  He's proven he can be a key part of a contender (4th best player on our team in 2008 and 3rd best player on our team in 2010)... But if Boston is losing KG and Pierce (who are more important to this team's success than Rondo), we're headed towards the Lotto and a lengthy rebuild.  Might as well start loading up on young assets and cap space to try to expedite the process.  Tank and put yourself in position to either draft a superstar or sign one as a free agent.  Standing pat with mediocre talent is just going to prolong the process and make it harder to significantly improve.  You gotta get bad to get good in this league.  So yeah, you'd have to consider a trade like this if you're looking at the "big picture" of a rebuild.

That said... this draft supposedly is garbage.  You'd hope we could at least get a top 5 pick for Rondo in a normal draft... not the #6 pick in a garbage one.


... But if we had a 3rd team involved and somehow were able to package #6 + our #16 for the #2 pick where we could take Nerlens Noel... I'm back on board.

When you say that Rondo was the third best player on our team in 2010, that's just based on your personal opinion, right?  It can't be based on the efficiency metric that you've been using above.  That would have him as our best player in both the regular season and playoffs that year (slightly behind KG if you are looking at it per 48--which I don't like to do as it doesn't take into consideration the value of having a great player that can give you 40+ minutes a night and still be effective.  Of course, if you insist on the notion that efficiency per 48 is a more valuable metric for determining a players worth, you'll have to acknowledge that Derrick Brown, Sunny Gaines, Joey Graham, Devin Brown, Jason Collins, and Etan Thomas were the stars of the 2010 playoffs).

[LarBrd33]

When healthy Rondo is a top-20 player. When healthy and in the playoffs Rondo is a top-5 player.

Grevies Vasquez is not a valuable asset if we're rebuilding and the #7 overall pick nets you something akin to Shabazz Mohammed.

I'm sorry but Rondo is a superstar and nothing about Vasquez or the #7 pick entices me enough to trade him.

Last year Rondo was the #29 best player statistically in the regular season.  #82 Per 48 minutes.

In the playoffs he was #3 behind only Durant and LeBron.  #12 per 48 minutes... Rondo's minutes were ridiculous in the playoffs that year and inflated his stats.

This season, Rondo was having the best stats of his career prior to his injury (although Boston was below .500).  He was #18 Statistically.   #62 per 48 minutes.

Can't really disagree with you aside from calling him a "superstar".  He's a former all-star... a very good player.  Rondo is a top 10 PG in the league... probably within the top 40 players in the league.  But not a superstar.  He's proven he can be a key part of a contender (4th best player on our team in 2008 and 3rd best player on our team in 2010)... But if Boston is losing KG and Pierce (who are more important to this team's success than Rondo), we're headed towards the Lotto and a lengthy rebuild.  Might as well start loading up on young assets and cap space to try to expedite the process.  Tank and put yourself in position to either draft a superstar or sign one as a free agent.  Standing pat with mediocre talent is just going to prolong the process and make it harder to significantly improve.  You gotta get bad to get good in this league.  So yeah, you'd have to consider a trade like this if you're looking at the "big picture" of a rebuild.

That said... this draft supposedly is garbage.  You'd hope we could at least get a top 5 pick for Rondo in a normal draft... not the #6 pick in a garbage one.


... But if we had a 3rd team involved and somehow were able to package #6 + our #16 for the #2 pick where we could take Nerlens Noel... I'm back on board.

When you say that Rondo was the third best player on our team in 2010, that's just based on your personal opinion, right?  It can't be based on the efficiency metric that you've been using above.  That would have him as our best player in both the regular season and playoffs that year (slightly behind KG if you are looking at it per 48--which I don't like to do as it doesn't take into consideration the value of having a great player that can give you 40+ minutes a night and still be effective.  Of course, if you insist on the notion that efficiency per 48 is a more valuable metric for determining a players worth, you'll have to acknowledge that Derrick Brown, Sunny Gaines, Joey Graham, Devin Brown, Jason Collins, and Etan Thomas were the stars of the 2010 playoffs).

Fair points.  Statistically in 2009-10 he was the best player on this team in both the regular season and playoffs.  TP.  I'm wrong on that one and I do lean on those stats pretty heavily to show who "statistically" has had the best season.

But the vets (KG and PIerce) usually get a lot less minutes during the regular season and I've said for a while that we only go as far as those two take us.  I rank KG ahead of Rondo in terms of importance mostly due to the fact that his defensive impact on this team is off the charts.  Defense has been this team's identity since KG has played here and essentially every measurement shows that KG is the epicenter of our defense and we struggle without him on the court.  In 2009-10, KG was coming back from that injury and definitely wasn't moving as well.  Even so, he had the highest defensive rating on the team. 

Meanwhile, Paul Pierce has consistently been our best scorer.  Our offense has been horrible without Pierce on the floor... it leaves us with no go-to scorer.  In 2009-10, Ray, KG and Pierce all had a higher offensive rating than Rondo.   In terms of win shares, Rondo was the best on the team.  But win shares per 48 minutes show KG #1, Pierce #2 and Rondo #3.

It painted a picture to me that Rondo was the one getting all of the stats on Boston, but the driving force of this team's success remained KG... then Pierce... and then Rondo.

I'll acknowledge that the old guys can't keep it going for a full season anymore.  Doc limits their minutes.  But in terms of winning games, KG and Pierce have remained our most important players.  The last few years, Rondo has been the stat king without question.  I strongly feel that if you removed PIerce and KG from this team... we'd be in the lotto.  But of course if you removed Rondo + (either Pierce or KG), you'd be in the lotto as well.   No doubt those 3 are our best players... and since two of them have a foot in retirement and the other can't lead a team on his own... a trade like this makes a bit of sense for a team acquiring assets for a long rebuild.

[chambers]

When healthy Rondo is a top-20 player. When healthy and in the playoffs Rondo is a top-5 player.

Grevies Vasquez is not a valuable asset if we're rebuilding and the #7 overall pick nets you something akin to Shabazz Mohammed.

I'm sorry but Rondo is a superstar and nothing about Vasquez or the #7 pick entices me enough to trade him.

Last year Rondo was the #29 best player statistically in the regular season.  #82 Per 48 minutes.

In the playoffs he was #3 behind only Durant and LeBron.  #12 per 48 minutes... Rondo's minutes were ridiculous in the playoffs that year and inflated his stats.

This season, Rondo was having the best stats of his career prior to his injury (although Boston was below .500).  He was #18 Statistically.   #62 per 48 minutes.

Can't really disagree with you aside from calling him a "superstar".  He's a former all-star... a very good player.  Rondo is a top 10 PG in the league... probably within the top 40 players in the league.  But not a superstar.  He's proven he can be a key part of a contender (4th best player on our team in 2008 and 3rd best player on our team in 2010)... But if Boston is losing KG and Pierce (who are more important to this team's success than Rondo), we're headed towards the Lotto and a lengthy rebuild.  Might as well start loading up on young assets and cap space to try to expedite the process.  Tank and put yourself in position to either draft a superstar or sign one as a free agent.  Standing pat with mediocre talent is just going to prolong the process and make it harder to significantly improve.  You gotta get bad to get good in this league.  So yeah, you'd have to consider a trade like this if you're looking at the "big picture" of a rebuild.

That said... this draft supposedly is garbage.  You'd hope we could at least get a top 5 pick for Rondo in a normal draft... not the #6 pick in a garbage one.


... But if we had a 3rd team involved and somehow were able to package #6 + our #16 for the #2 pick where we could take Nerlens Noel... I'm back on board.

When you say that Rondo was the third best player on our team in 2010, that's just based on your personal opinion, right?  It can't be based on the efficiency metric that you've been using above.  That would have him as our best player in both the regular season and playoffs that year (slightly behind KG if you are looking at it per 48--which I don't like to do as it doesn't take into consideration the value of having a great player that can give you 40+ minutes a night and still be effective.  Of course, if you insist on the notion that efficiency per 48 is a more valuable metric for determining a players worth, you'll have to acknowledge that Derrick Brown, Sunny Gaines, Joey Graham, Devin Brown, Jason Collins, and Etan Thomas were the stars of the 2010 playoffs).

Fair points.  Statistically in 2009-10 he was the best player on this team in both the regular season and playoffs.  TP.  I'm wrong on that one and I do lean on those stats pretty heavily to show who "statistically" has had the best season.

But the vets (KG and PIerce) usually get a lot less minutes during the regular season and I've said for a while that we only go as far as those two take us.  I rank KG ahead of Rondo in terms of importance mostly due to the fact that his defensive impact on this team is off the charts.  Defense has been this team's identity since KG has played here and essentially every measurement shows that KG is the epicenter of our defense and we struggle without him on the court.  In 2009-10, KG was coming back from that injury and definitely wasn't moving as well.  Even so, he had the highest defensive rating on the team. 

Meanwhile, Paul Pierce has consistently been our best scorer.  Our offense has been horrible without Pierce on the floor... it leaves us with no go-to scorer.  In 2009-10, Ray, KG and Pierce all had a higher offensive rating than Rondo.   In terms of win shares, Rondo was the best on the team.  But win shares per 48 minutes show KG #1, Pierce #2 and Rondo #3.

It painted a picture to me that Rondo was the one getting all of the stats on Boston, but the driving force of this team's success remained KG... then Pierce... and then Rondo.

I'll acknowledge that the old guys can't keep it going for a full season anymore.  Doc limits their minutes.  But in terms of winning games, KG and Pierce have remained our most important players.  The last few years, Rondo has been the stat king without question.  I strongly feel that if you removed PIerce and KG from this team... we'd be in the lotto.  But of course if you removed Rondo + (either Pierce or KG), you'd be in the lotto as well.   No doubt those 3 are our best players... and since two of them have a foot in retirement and the other can't lead a team on his own... a trade like this makes a bit of sense for a team acquiring assets for a long rebuild.

KG is as important as Rondo and vice versa. Pierce was as important if not more important at one point but his game has diminished so much overall the past season that he's out of the equation.

I don't see how you can say that this team only goes so far as KG and Pierce can take it, yet the first playoffs in 4 years that Rondo misses we are bounced by a horrid Knicks team in 6 games.

You're also talking about how horrible our offense was without Pierce. Look how horrible it was without Rondo. We had the lowest points scored in a half in Celtics playoff history. We were playing the lowly New York Knicks too.

You can take everything you're saying that seems to discredit Rondo for anything valuable he contributes to this teams performance and argue that it's actually worse without him.

Fact: KG and Rondo are the glue to this team going anywhere. Jeff Green is replacing Pierce this upcoming season as the 3rd piece of the core. If we can get them some help in the form of an All Star or fringe All Star big man (Millsap/Jefferson/Josh Smith/Pau Gasol etc) we might have a shot at making the ECF. We just have to hope that the real contenders have serious injuries again.

[BballTim]

When healthy Rondo is a top-20 player. When healthy and in the playoffs Rondo is a top-5 player.

Grevies Vasquez is not a valuable asset if we're rebuilding and the #7 overall pick nets you something akin to Shabazz Mohammed.

I'm sorry but Rondo is a superstar and nothing about Vasquez or the #7 pick entices me enough to trade him.

Last year Rondo was the #29 best player statistically in the regular season.  #82 Per 48 minutes.

In the playoffs he was #3 behind only Durant and LeBron.  #12 per 48 minutes... Rondo's minutes were ridiculous in the playoffs that year and inflated his stats.

This season, Rondo was having the best stats of his career prior to his injury (although Boston was below .500).  He was #18 Statistically.   #62 per 48 minutes.

Can't really disagree with you aside from calling him a "superstar".  He's a former all-star... a very good player.  Rondo is a top 10 PG in the league... probably within the top 40 players in the league.  But not a superstar.  He's proven he can be a key part of a contender (4th best player on our team in 2008 and 3rd best player on our team in 2010)... But if Boston is losing KG and Pierce (who are more important to this team's success than Rondo), we're headed towards the Lotto and a lengthy rebuild.  Might as well start loading up on young assets and cap space to try to expedite the process.  Tank and put yourself in position to either draft a superstar or sign one as a free agent.  Standing pat with mediocre talent is just going to prolong the process and make it harder to significantly improve.  You gotta get bad to get good in this league.  So yeah, you'd have to consider a trade like this if you're looking at the "big picture" of a rebuild.

That said... this draft supposedly is garbage.  You'd hope we could at least get a top 5 pick for Rondo in a normal draft... not the #6 pick in a garbage one.


... But if we had a 3rd team involved and somehow were able to package #6 + our #16 for the #2 pick where we could take Nerlens Noel... I'm back on board.

When you say that Rondo was the third best player on our team in 2010, that's just based on your personal opinion, right?  It can't be based on the efficiency metric that you've been using above.  That would have him as our best player in both the regular season and playoffs that year (slightly behind KG if you are looking at it per 48--which I don't like to do as it doesn't take into consideration the value of having a great player that can give you 40+ minutes a night and still be effective.  Of course, if you insist on the notion that efficiency per 48 is a more valuable metric for determining a players worth, you'll have to acknowledge that Derrick Brown, Sunny Gaines, Joey Graham, Devin Brown, Jason Collins, and Etan Thomas were the stars of the 2010 playoffs).

Fair points.  Statistically in 2009-10 he was the best player on this team in both the regular season and playoffs.  TP.  I'm wrong on that one and I do lean on those stats pretty heavily to show who "statistically" has had the best season.

  I think if you take a look at those stats you'll see that Rondo wasn't just better than PP in 09-10, he's been pretty consistently better over the 09-present time frame, especially in the playoffs. IIRC he's a little behind KG during the season but the same or better in the playoffs over that same period, even on a per-minute basis. Overall, he's probably had the highest  overall efficiency of any of the big four since the title year ended, but probably a little behind KG on a per minute basis.

But the vets (KG and PIerce) usually get a lot less minutes during the regular season and I've said for a while that we only go as far as those two take us.  I rank KG ahead of Rondo in terms of importance mostly due to the fact that his defensive impact on this team is off the charts.  Defense has been this team's identity since KG has played here and essentially every measurement shows that KG is the epicenter of our defense and we struggle without him on the court.  In 2009-10, KG was coming back from that injury and definitely wasn't moving as well.  Even so, he had the highest defensive rating on the team. 

Meanwhile, Paul Pierce has consistently been our best scorer.  Our offense has been horrible without Pierce on the floor... it leaves us with no go-to scorer.  In 2009-10, Ray, KG and Pierce all had a higher offensive rating than Rondo.   In terms of win shares, Rondo was the best on the team.  But win shares per 48 minutes show KG #1, Pierce #2 and Rondo #3.

It painted a picture to me that Rondo was the one getting all of the stats on Boston, but the driving force of this team's success remained KG... then Pierce... and then Rondo.

  I think if you looked for stats to back up your claim that the offense lives and dies with PP (especially in the playoffs) you'd see that they don't point to that, they favor Rondo by a significant margin. When you talk about Rondo (and PP) and the Celts it's not really based on what's happening on the court, it's based on your expectation of what must be happening based on your evaluation of the players.

  Again, look at your proclamations that the team wouldn't miss a beat without Rondo in the playoffs. If someone told you at the end of last year's playoffs that you could basically take that team, add a 20 ppg wing player, replace Rondo with Jet, go up against a much softer defense than we'd faced in last year's playoffs and set records for scoring futility you'd have injured yourself through the force of your laughter. If I'd heard the same I'd have pointed out that Rondo created a higher percentage of his team's offense than anyone in the playoffs last year and was the driving force behind the run to the ecf and been, if anything, mildly surprised.

[Moranis]

When healthy Rondo is a top-20 player. When healthy and in the playoffs Rondo is a top-5 player.

Grevies Vasquez is not a valuable asset if we're rebuilding and the #7 overall pick nets you something akin to Shabazz Mohammed.

I'm sorry but Rondo is a superstar and nothing about Vasquez or the #7 pick entices me enough to trade him.

Last year Rondo was the #29 best player statistically in the regular season.  #82 Per 48 minutes.

In the playoffs he was #3 behind only Durant and LeBron.  #12 per 48 minutes... Rondo's minutes were ridiculous in the playoffs that year and inflated his stats.

This season, Rondo was having the best stats of his career prior to his injury (although Boston was below .500).  He was #18 Statistically.   #62 per 48 minutes.

Can't really disagree with you aside from calling him a "superstar".  He's a former all-star... a very good player.  Rondo is a top 10 PG in the league... probably within the top 40 players in the league.  But not a superstar.  He's proven he can be a key part of a contender (4th best player on our team in 2008 and 3rd best player on our team in 2010)... But if Boston is losing KG and Pierce (who are more important to this team's success than Rondo), we're headed towards the Lotto and a lengthy rebuild.  Might as well start loading up on young assets and cap space to try to expedite the process.  Tank and put yourself in position to either draft a superstar or sign one as a free agent.  Standing pat with mediocre talent is just going to prolong the process and make it harder to significantly improve.  You gotta get bad to get good in this league.  So yeah, you'd have to consider a trade like this if you're looking at the "big picture" of a rebuild.

That said... this draft supposedly is garbage.  You'd hope we could at least get a top 5 pick for Rondo in a normal draft... not the #6 pick in a garbage one.


... But if we had a 3rd team involved and somehow were able to package #6 + our #16 for the #2 pick where we could take Nerlens Noel... I'm back on board.

When you say that Rondo was the third best player on our team in 2010, that's just based on your personal opinion, right?  It can't be based on the efficiency metric that you've been using above.  That would have him as our best player in both the regular season and playoffs that year (slightly behind KG if you are looking at it per 48--which I don't like to do as it doesn't take into consideration the value of having a great player that can give you 40+ minutes a night and still be effective.  Of course, if you insist on the notion that efficiency per 48 is a more valuable metric for determining a players worth, you'll have to acknowledge that Derrick Brown, Sunny Gaines, Joey Graham, Devin Brown, Jason Collins, and Etan Thomas were the stars of the 2010 playoffs).

Fair points.  Statistically in 2009-10 he was the best player on this team in both the regular season and playoffs.  TP.  I'm wrong on that one and I do lean on those stats pretty heavily to show who "statistically" has had the best season.

But the vets (KG and PIerce) usually get a lot less minutes during the regular season and I've said for a while that we only go as far as those two take us.  I rank KG ahead of Rondo in terms of importance mostly due to the fact that his defensive impact on this team is off the charts.  Defense has been this team's identity since KG has played here and essentially every measurement shows that KG is the epicenter of our defense and we struggle without him on the court.  In 2009-10, KG was coming back from that injury and definitely wasn't moving as well.  Even so, he had the highest defensive rating on the team. 

Meanwhile, Paul Pierce has consistently been our best scorer.  Our offense has been horrible without Pierce on the floor... it leaves us with no go-to scorer.  In 2009-10, Ray, KG and Pierce all had a higher offensive rating than Rondo.   In terms of win shares, Rondo was the best on the team.  But win shares per 48 minutes show KG #1, Pierce #2 and Rondo #3.

It painted a picture to me that Rondo was the one getting all of the stats on Boston, but the driving force of this team's success remained KG... then Pierce... and then Rondo.

I'll acknowledge that the old guys can't keep it going for a full season anymore.  Doc limits their minutes.  But in terms of winning games, KG and Pierce have remained our most important players.  The last few years, Rondo has been the stat king without question.  I strongly feel that if you removed PIerce and KG from this team... we'd be in the lotto.  But of course if you removed Rondo + (either Pierce or KG), you'd be in the lotto as well.   No doubt those 3 are our best players... and since two of them have a foot in retirement and the other can't lead a team on his own... a trade like this makes a bit of sense for a team acquiring assets for a long rebuild.

KG is as important as Rondo and vice versa. Pierce was as important if not more important at one point but his game has diminished so much overall the past season that he's out of the equation.

I don't see how you can say that this team only goes so far as KG and Pierce can take it, yet the first playoffs in 4 years that Rondo misses we are bounced by a horrid Knicks team in 6 games.

You're also talking about how horrible our offense was without Pierce. Look how horrible it was without Rondo. We had the lowest points scored in a half in Celtics playoff history. We were playing the lowly New York Knicks too.

You can take everything you're saying that seems to discredit Rondo for anything valuable he contributes to this teams performance and argue that it's actually worse without him.

Fact: KG and Rondo are the glue to this team going anywhere. Jeff Green is replacing Pierce this upcoming season as the 3rd piece of the core. If we can get them some help in the form of an All Star or fringe All Star big man (Millsap/Jefferson/Josh Smith/Pau Gasol etc) we might have a shot at making the ECF. We just have to hope that the real contenders have serious injuries again.

The "horrid" Knicks team you mention won 54 games and was the second best team in the eastern conference during the regular season.  Don't you think that maybe just maybe you are greatly exaggerating how bad the Knicks are because you think it helps the rest of the argument you are making?  Of course the reality is when you make gross misrepresentations such as that the rest of your post can pretty much be ignored.  You could have reached the same conclusions without the gross misrepresentations, just like bballtim did in his post directly after yours.

[connor]

In that trade I don't think Vasquez and the #6 in a weak draft is enough to give up Rondo especially when Vasquez is going to need some big money after next season. I really really like Vasquez too. He puts up similar numbers to Rondo, but I think his lack of athleticism will eventually catch up with him especially as he slows with age.

I'd want the deal to be Vasquez, Gordon and #6 or Vasquez, Lopez and the #6 at which point I think NO says an emphatic no, unless they are so eager to get rid of Gordon's contract that they just hand him away.

And even then I'm not sure I'd be happy with the Celtic's return because, as others have said, if we are moving Rondo I'd like to get a young building block big in return. I realize that they are tremendously hard to come by but its not as if the Celtics are desperate to move Rondo so there is no rush to make a move.

When Rondo comes back healthy he can re-establish his trade value and we will have more leverage to make a move and get a better return if Danny chooses to go that way.