The Spurs show we should run it back

[PhoSita]

Viewed that way, sure, the OPs premise might still not hold water.   Or maybe it does.  But the criticisms that are based purely on how crappy THIS year went for the C's don't particularly impress me.

Fair points, mmmmm (I can't help thinking of Campbell Soup when I read your name).

Thing is, the OP's premise holds water about as well as the wreck of the Titanic lying on the bottom of the Atlantic Ocean.

[WeMadeIt17]

I agree the Spurs are the better team hands down. I think if we had a healthy AB going into the season and our rotation was more figured out then yes we could be very comparable. I am going on the hypothetical P.O.V. And Rondo in the playoffs is pretty consistent if you ask me. He shows up every year this time of year. I am just saying that if everyone is healthy this is very close. I say if Parker tore his ACL then the spurs would be exactly where we are right now. 

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

So, people really think RR couldn't do what Parker did? Really? I guess I didn't see RR put up amazing numbers last season ECF. Can he get back to that level, who knows... but he is on Parker's level in the playoffs, NO QUESTION! Talking about Parker being an MVP candidate... well, show me side by sides of Parkers season stats and RR's when he was healthy and I'm sure they are comparable. Because Parker's team is a winning team of course they would consider him an MVP candidate and if the Celtics were a winning team then with the numbers RR was putting up then I am sure he would have been considered too!

Kevin Garnet IS as good as Duncan RIGHT NOW and the people who are saying he isn't are making me laugh! What makes Duncan better? Wait, it's because Duncan was selected to teams that KG wasn't? Hahahahahaaha please stop!Duncan is on a HEALTHY team, with a HEALTHY PG that makes his life so much easier, and HE is healthy! Not only that but he is on a team with very few new players so the team has had more time to gel. What makes Duncan better and please don't talk about all team selections anymore (please).

PP is better than Manu and I really don't think anyone can question that and be serious! If there wasn't history (maybe fit) with Manu, Spurs would give him up for PP any day of the week.


Now I'm not talking about this thread's topic b/c I want to run it back regardless of what SA did/does!


People always fall in love with what's hot and make it so much more than it is. Parker is great and he's doing his thing in the playoffs but to say RR isn't on his level (pre-injury is all we can go on), then really I don't know what to say to you b/c I don't get what proof you have that says he isn't, errr wasn't.

If RR gets back to playing last season's level (playoffs especially) then all the people saying he isn't on Parker's level right now will be singing a different tune.


LOL I seem to have argued more about RR than the other guys but it just made me do a double take at the people saying Parker is on another level than RR. I guess scoring 37pts with 6 assists and 4rbs in an WCF game RECENTLY, can make you forget that not too long ago RR scored 44 with 10 assists and 8rbs in the ECF except he did it against the eventual champs.

I'm too lazy to check on it but what makes TP better than RR (I'm not talking about looking at teams but them as individuals)? RR is better than he is at most things... even though everyone says he isn't consistent. Is TP a better defender than RR, what about rebounder, better at assisting, better scorer? What makes him better??? No, what their teams does doesn't matter right now, b/c if what their teams did meant anything, then that means Irving isn't as good as he is b/c his team is HOT garbage (a guy who people think is better than RR too). So, yea, TP has the rings but it doesn't mean he's better.

[LGC88]

Spurs are getting very good defensively and are still light years ahead on offense compare to Boston. When you see the production of the bench on both end of the floor, it's scary. I hope they win it this year. They deserve it.

[Casperian]

apples and oranges

[Celtics4ever]

They can score in the fourth, we can't.   It has hurt the last few years.

[guava_wrench]

There are multiple teams in the league can might be tempted to chase past glory like the OP wants us to. If we compare to best case scenarios, it is easy to convince ourselves that there is a good chance that it will happen.

People should not forget that San Antonio had the best record in the league last season. They won 61 games the season before. There is nothing surprising about their post season performance this season.

[sed522002]

I don't follow the Spurs, but have they had any major changes to their roster in the last 2-3 yrs? Their core is still intact and they don't have a revolving door of players each season.

I wish the C's could have gone further, but chemistry wasn't on their side and when they had a chance to get chemistry a game changing injury would occur. If KG had a reliable player to come in and spell him some minutes (consistently) without a huge drop off, then that would change a lot for the C's.

[Celtics18]

If Kevin Garnett is sitting at home watching the NBA playoffs and contemplating whether he should thinking about hanging up the high tops for good or giving it a go for one more season, seeing what this Spurs team, and his old nemesis--Tim Duncan--are doing, can only be swaying him towards going for it again. 

He's not the GM, but ultimately I think he might be the one who ends up making the decision on whether we run it back or not.

He can be a fairly convincing guy, and if he sits down with Danny and tells him "I can do this for one more year, I'm convinced of it.  Give me Paul Pierce back and a healthy Rondo, and some small tweaks, and let's go," I think it will happen.   

[greenhead85]

The talent difference i believe is very comparable. KG could easily avg. 15ppg and 8 rebounds as duncan did. Rondo if healthy is capable of what tony does. Pierce can do what Manu does as well. I think what we are missing which from what i have said and same with timo is our role players. We needed them this year. Really thats what this team was built on this year. Guys like Sully and Rondo being healthy, Pierce and KG doing their normal things, JG stepping up (which he did), and Role players like Lee,Terry,AB,and Crawford being able to step in and score and play D. Only a few of those things happened and thats where you get the difference.

no we can't and that's why we had a lovely first round exit
TP is much better than Rondo right now because Rondo just isn't consistent. I think he's getting there though. KG and duncan...sure...but TD just did great things this series. He also looks a step ahead of KG. And if you want to put PP on the bench, I'm so cool with that.
You're also forgetting how the Spurs have a coach that's lightyears ahead of ours. They're also kind of deep...oh and big.
Spurs are much better than the Cs. And unless we want to put Paul on the bench, DEMAND a consistent game from Rondo, feature JG more and get a coach who's not stuck on being loyal to 2-3 guys, then sure, we can be better than the Spurs.

Agree to most of it.

KG and PP may be able to produce similar numbers as TD and Manu but the latter pair play more efficiently as the former pair. TD really plays intelligently and uses his size to score inside unlike KG who prefers to take on jumpers thus lessening chances of getting offensive rebounds. Manu is quicker and  far better than PP in playing the open court and more importantly chases opposing players and smother fastbreaks. Tony Parker is a better scorer than Rondo. TP's jumper is so so good. I could just wish Rondo spent his time doing a lot of shooting while  recovering from his ACL injury so he has something special to show to the fans when he comes back.

Personally, if we want to run it back we need another scorer and shotblocker/rebounder and a different head coach.

[Roy H.]

I don't follow the Spurs, but have they had any major changes to their roster in the last 2-3 yrs? Their core is still intact and they don't have a revolving door of players each season.

I wish the C's could have gone further, but chemistry wasn't on their side and when they had a chance to get chemistry a game changing injury would occur. If KG had a reliable player to come in and spell him some minutes (consistently) without a huge drop off, then that would change a lot for the C's.

Their core has stayed the same, but they've made some really smart personnel moves.  Drafting Tiego Splitter, trading for Kawhi Leonard, signing Danny Green, Gary Neal, and Boris Diaw for nothing.

[CoachBo]

One name explains the Spurs - R.C. Buford.

The guy is the best general manager in the game.

Period.

The Spurs are where they are because their organization is one of the best in the game.

Wyc should seek to copy it.

[Kane3387]

If Kevin Garnett is sitting at home watching the NBA playoffs and contemplating whether he should thinking about hanging up the high tops for good or giving it a go for one more season, seeing what this Spurs team, and his old nemesis--Tim Duncan--are doing, can only be swaying him towards going for it again. 

He's not the GM, but ultimately I think he might be the one who ends up making the decision on whether we run it back or not.

He can be a fairly convincing guy, and if he sits down with Danny and tells him "I can do this for one more year, I'm convinced of it.  Give me Paul Pierce back and a healthy Rondo, and some small tweaks, and let's go," I think it will happen.

Agree with all of this. Tp

[SHAQATTACK]

We can try and run it back...but without addition of a serious center to help KG , I just can't see the Celtics being true contenders .  Health will kill our run again.

Yes give us Splitter, ASIK or another good young center and along with KG , the C's could make some noise.

Old legs and no size is a bad combination

[Boris Badenov]

I just dont see how you can say KG is right there with Duncan at this point in both their careers.

I think trying to say which is 'better' than the other becomes almost a matter of taste.

Well, OK, but according to the 'taste' of most head coaches, sportswriters and other NBA analysts, Duncan is a far better player than KG as of right now.

Like PJ said, Duncan was 1st team All-NBA and 2nd team All-Defense. He also finished 7th in MVP voting. KG was not even really on the map for those awards.

So if according to your taste KG is equal, that's obviously OK, but you have to recognize that it is a minority opinion.

Don't really care.

To me, a lot of this whole thread keeps waiving over the obvious.  It is silly to compare the teams based on KG vs Duncan, PP vs Manu, Rondo vs Parker and so on using this last season as the comparison basis, considering that outside of KG & PP, none of the principles on the C's were even 'all there' for the whole season. 

Comparing how well KG or any individual played between two teams with such radically different fortunes seems dubious at an exacting level.   Team effects DO effect how the individuals perform, even elite superstars.  And it also most definitely affects how fans / writers / coaches perceive players.  So I'm not particularly worried about whether my opinion is 'minority' or not.  I detailed the basis for my opinion and I'll stand by it.

The OP's premise, flawed or not, should only be viewed from the hopeful lens of how well the proposed lineups (on either team) might fair if healthy and performing at at least their recent nominal performance ratings. 

But the criticisms that are based purely on how crappy THIS year went for the C's don't particularly impress me.

OK, so you don't like comparisons (a) based on last year, (b) based on qualitative factors because those are affected by team records, and you want to see performance at (c) "nominal performance ratings."

I'll address all three of those by using quantitative metrics rather than the qualitative evaluations, and by extending the comparison to the last six years rather than only last year.

Take a look at PER with each player's rank among all NBA players:

                  KG             TD         KG rank      TD rank
2007-08         25.42           24.05          4            9
2008-09         21.32           24.51         18            5
2009-10         19.51           24.79         30            5
2010-11         20.67           21.94         24           14
2011-12         20.47           22.60         34           14
2012-13         19.25           24.45         38            6


So, by this objectively calculated number you see a clear decline for KG, while TD's performance this year is competitive with those from five years ago.

Note that your point about how the "team is doing" influencing such rankings is not really borne out here. Plenty of players have high PERs on teams with losing records - including KG, who had terrific PERs on those mediocre MIN teams. And while KG's PER has declined as the team's record has declined, it's more likely that the causality runs the other way - he's not as good, so the team is performing worse.

If you don't like PER you can pick any other relevant metric you want, old-school or advanced, and you'll see the same pattern. KG has declined by more than TD.

And, coming back to a point I've made again and again, you win rings in the NBA with top 10 players, often by having two such guys. It is very simple. By no metric do we have even one, while the Spurs have two. They are much better positioned to run it back.