Danny needs to push hard into pursuing CP3

[CoachBo]

Chris Paul is absolutely the best PG in the league.  The "best-of" list includes Tony Parker, Russell Westbrook, Stephen Curry, Deron WIlliams, healthy Derrick Rose  There are some young guns coming up like Kyrie Irving, Jrue Holiday, Mike Conley, Ricky Rubio, Damian Lillard and John Wall. 

Rondo is somewhere in the Top 10.  Chris Paul is undeniably a superior player...

Problem is, point guards don't really win titles in this league.  The last team to win a championship with a point guard as their best player would be the 80s Pistons and isiah Thomas.  It's a big man and scorer's league. 

So upgrading to Chris Paul would be nice, but it wouldn't be enough.

TP. NO question I'd move Rondo for Chris Paul.

Completely agree, though, that point guards don't win championships in this league - although getting that point across here is going to result in a lot of cuts and abrasions on the top of your head.

I'd do the deal. We'd certainly be better than 20-23 in the first half of this year.

But we're not winning a title adding Chris Paul to this crew.

[Fafnir]

No.

He didn't do it in 2007. He didn't do it in 2010. We have never made the Finals with Rondo as our best player.

are you joking about 2010? that was rondo's legendary year. he's the reason we came back against the cavs, and he's the reason we destroyed the magic. this truly was one of not just the best pg playoff performances ever but an all around greatest playoff performances

Revisionist history?

In 24 games during the 2010 playoffs Rondo had the following averages:

FG% 46.3
FT% 59.6
PPG 15.8
RPG 5.9
APG 9.3
SPG 1.9
TO 3.0

Solid? Yes. Great and legendary? No.

15 points 5 rebounds 9 assists under 3.5 turnovers a game in the playoffs is just "solid"?

Here's the list of names that have done that in NBA history:

Magic Johnson x 4
Isiah Thomas x 1
Jason Kidd x 1
Rajon Rondo x 2
Clyde Drexler x 1
Chris Weber x 1 (over 3 games getting swept)
Michael Ray Richardson x 1 (over 3 games getting swept)

Data fishing for numbers combination has limited value, I don't think 15/5/9/3.5 is some sort of special number combination. (remove the 3.5 TO limit you get to add Chris Paul to the list and Magic a bunch more times, you could fiddle the other numbers I'm sure to add other players playoffs)

But in this case it does demonstrate that its not just "solid", not in the playoffs.

[LooseCannon]

Problem is, point guards don't really win titles in this league.  The last team to win a championship with a point guard as their best player would be the 80s Pistons and isiah Thomas.  It's a big man and scorer's league. 

Can a team win a championship with a point guard as its second-best player?  Can a team win a championship if its second-best player is Rajon Rondo?

[Celtics4ever]

Problem is, point guards don't really win titles in this league.  The last team to win a championship with a point guard as their best player would be the 80s Pistons and isiah Thomas.  It's a big man and scorer's league. 

It worked poorly for Isiah and Magic that is for sure.

[Yogi]

No.

He didn't do it in 2007. He didn't do it in 2010. We have never made the Finals with Rondo as our best player.

are you joking about 2010? that was rondo's legendary year. he's the reason we came back against the cavs, and he's the reason we destroyed the magic. this truly was one of not just the best pg playoff performances ever but an all around greatest playoff performances

Revisionist history?

In 24 games during the 2010 playoffs Rondo had the following averages:

FG% 46.3
FT% 59.6
PPG 15.8
RPG 5.9
APG 9.3
SPG 1.9
TO 3.0

Solid? Yes. Great and legendary? No.

Is this a joke?  16, 9, 6 and 2 is only solid for a point guard?  Maybe it's the times we live in with so many great point guards.  Those numbers for the FOURTH option on a team is unheard of.

[dark_lord]

cp3 would never want to come to boston

[LarBrd33]

Chris Paul is absolutely the best PG in the league.  The "best-of" list includes Tony Parker, Russell Westbrook, Stephen Curry, Deron WIlliams, healthy Derrick Rose  There are some young guns coming up like Kyrie Irving, Jrue Holiday, Mike Conley, Ricky Rubio, Damian Lillard and John Wall. 

Rondo is somewhere in the Top 10.  Chris Paul is undeniably a superior player...

Problem is, point guards don't really win titles in this league.  The last team to win a championship with a point guard as their best player would be the 80s Pistons and isiah Thomas.  It's a big man and scorer's league. 

So upgrading to Chris Paul would be nice, but it wouldn't be enough.

Yes, top five is definitely in the top ten.  Tony Parker, Chauncey Billups, Jason Kidd, and even 2008 Rajon Rondo are all very, very good point guards who have won titles recently.  You may say that point guards don't win titles on their own, but it sure is helpful to have a good one. 

By the way, how do you not count Magic's Lakers as a team whose best player was their point guard?

One of these teams with an elite point guard is due to win a title in the near future.  Here's hoping Danny can put the right pieces together over the course of the next few years so that team can end up being Rondo's Celtics.

I can't tell if you just ignored what I wrote or didn't understand it.

Billups wasn't the best player on his team despite the nonsense Finals MVP award.  The Wallace brothers were that team... Rip Hamilton was the allstar scorer.

You are crediting Jason Kidd for Dirk Nowitski's championship?  K?

You're crediting role-player Rondo for the title won by Kevin Garnett and his sidekick allstar hall-of-famers Pierce and Ray ALlen?

Comeonn...

Again... the last team to win a title with a point guard as the best player was the 1980s Pistons with Isiah Thomas.  That happened AFTER 6'9 Magic Johnson won his. 

Nothing I said was inaccurate. 

Yes, it's nice to have a good point guard.  SUre, I'd love to have Chris Paul.  I'm just sayin, you'd need more.  Rondo sure as heck isn't winning a title as the best player... Chris Paul is proving unlikely to do that as well... despite being vastly superior to Rondo.

[D.o.s.]

Problem is, point guards don't really win titles in this league.  The last team to win a championship with a point guard as their best player would be the 80s Pistons and isiah Thomas.  It's a big man and scorer's league. 

Can a team win a championship with a point guard as its second-best player?  Can a team win a championship if its second-best player is Rajon Rondo?

Which really becomes "can a team win a championship if it has a pair of top-15(feel free to adjust the number as you see fit) players?"

And the answer is almost certainly yes, they can.

[LarBrd33]

Problem is, point guards don't really win titles in this league.  The last team to win a championship with a point guard as their best player would be the 80s Pistons and isiah Thomas.  It's a big man and scorer's league. 

Can a team win a championship with a point guard as its second-best player?  Can a team win a championship if its second-best player is Rajon Rondo?

Sure... if the player is transcendent like LeBron James or Kevin Durant.   

Again, it's not a bad thing having an all-star level point guard... I could see the Thunder winning a title some day with Russell Westbrook as their 2nd best player.   I could theoretically see Chris Paul winning a title if he's sharing the spotlight with a dominant big man (Dwight Howard at his peak)...

But the best of the best in a league flooded with talented point guards is Chris Paul... and Chris Paul proved that even with a solid supporting cast lead by Blake Griffin... the team struggled to make a long playoff push.

Rondo with this current crop of Celtics is a team that will struggle to even make the playoffs (they were below .500 when he got injured).   Chris Paul with this current crop of Celtics would be an improvement, but not a contender.

[D.o.s.]

No.

He didn't do it in 2007. He didn't do it in 2010. We have never made the Finals with Rondo as our best player.

are you joking about 2010? that was rondo's legendary year. he's the reason we came back against the cavs, and he's the reason we destroyed the magic. this truly was one of not just the best pg playoff performances ever but an all around greatest playoff performances

Revisionist history?

In 24 games during the 2010 playoffs Rondo had the following averages:

FG% 46.3
FT% 59.6
PPG 15.8
RPG 5.9
APG 9.3
SPG 1.9
TO 3.0

Solid? Yes. Great and legendary? No.

Is this a joke?  16, 9, 6 and 2 is only solid for a point guard?  Maybe it's the times we live in with so many great point guards.  Those numbers for the FOURTH option on a team is unheard of.

I'd say we can all agree that Rondo was the fourth option on that team.

As such, it is very unlikely he was the best player on that team.

...So, because of utterly unimpeachable, irrefutable science, he's never lead his team to the Finals. 

[LarBrd33]

Problem is, point guards don't really win titles in this league.  The last team to win a championship with a point guard as their best player would be the 80s Pistons and isiah Thomas.  It's a big man and scorer's league. 

Can a team win a championship with a point guard as its second-best player?  Can a team win a championship if its second-best player is Rajon Rondo?

Which really becomes "can a team win a championship if it has a pair of top-15(feel free to adjust the number as you see fit) players?"

And the answer is almost certainly yes, they can.

I think what you're trying to allude to is the idea that two borderline all-stars could win a title together... like Josh Smith and Rondo (neither of which is really a top 15 player in this league, though)... Is there a history of a team with only two "top-15" players winning a title?  Billups/Wallace/Wallace/Hamilton were all all-stars so that probably doesn't count since it was 4 players + a solid supporting cast.   Some would argue that Dirk Nowitiski was a top 5 player the year Dallas won a title.   Where are these teams with only two "top 15" players winning a title together?  Are you saying like... Paul George and Roy Hibbert?  We'll see how they do.  Marc Gasol and Randolph?  Hmm... we'll see. 

Generally the teams winning the title have a top 5 guy and a solid supporting cast.  Rondo isn't a top 15 player in this league.  He's a top 10 PG.  Chris Paul is probably a top 5 talent, but you have to go all the way back to Isiah Thomas to find a team that won a title with a PG as their best player... and even then, that team was stacked and had quality big men.

[Fafnir]

No.

He didn't do it in 2007. He didn't do it in 2010. We have never made the Finals with Rondo as our best player.

are you joking about 2010? that was rondo's legendary year. he's the reason we came back against the cavs, and he's the reason we destroyed the magic. this truly was one of not just the best pg playoff performances ever but an all around greatest playoff performances

Revisionist history?

In 24 games during the 2010 playoffs Rondo had the following averages:

FG% 46.3
FT% 59.6
PPG 15.8
RPG 5.9
APG 9.3
SPG 1.9
TO 3.0

Solid? Yes. Great and legendary? No.

Is this a joke?  16, 9, 6 and 2 is only solid for a point guard?  Maybe it's the times we live in with so many great point guards.  Those numbers for the FOURTH option on a team is unheard of.

I'd say we can all agree that Rondo was the fourth option on that team.

As such, it is very unlikely he was the best player on that team.

...So, because of utterly unimpeachable, irrefutable science, he's never lead his team to the Finals. 

You can say things that aren't true all you want, just like you can judge a players worth by his shot attempts.

Edit: And then I go look at shot attempts, Rondo was second by shot attempts anyways the year in question. So really "fourth option" is just your slotting him into that spot in the pecking order by some other criteria.

[LarBrd33]

Problem is, point guards don't really win titles in this league.  The last team to win a championship with a point guard as their best player would be the 80s Pistons and isiah Thomas.  It's a big man and scorer's league. 

It worked poorly for Isiah and Magic that is for sure.

Two of the top 25 players of all time with loaded teams.  Yup... and it hasn't happened since 1990... and pretty much never happened prior to those two players. 

FYI, both of those guys also had hall-of-fame teammates. 

Give Chris Paul a hall-of-fame big man and I can see it happening.   Chris Paul + Dwight HOward (if he gets back to 100%) is a possibility.  Rondo + Josh smith... not so much.

[LooseCannon]

Problem is, point guards don't really win titles in this league.  The last team to win a championship with a point guard as their best player would be the 80s Pistons and isiah Thomas.  It's a big man and scorer's league. 

Can a team win a championship with a point guard as its second-best player?  Can a team win a championship if its second-best player is Rajon Rondo?

Which really becomes "can a team win a championship if it has a pair of top-15(feel free to adjust the number as you see fit) players?"

And the answer is almost certainly yes, they can.

I think what you're trying to allude to is the idea that two borderline all-stars could win a title together... like Josh Smith and Rondo (neither of which is really a top 15 player in this league, though)... Is there a history of a team with only two "top-15" players winning a title?  Billups/Wallace/Wallace/Hamilton were all all-stars so that probably doesn't count since it was 4 players + a solid supporting cast.   Some would argue that Dirk Nowitiski was a top 5 player the year Dallas won a title.   Where are these teams with only two "top 15" players winning a title together?  Are you saying like... Paul George and Roy Hibbert?  We'll see how they do.  Marc Gasol and Randolph?  Hmm... we'll see. 

Generally the teams winning the title have a top 5 guy and a solid supporting cast.  Rondo isn't a top 15 player in this league.  He's a top 10 PG.  Chris Paul is probably a top 5 talent, but you have to go all the way back to Isiah Thomas to find a team that won a title with a PG as their best player... and even then, that team was stacked and had quality big men.

I suspect that if Rondo had a full season, he would probably end up being the highest vote-getter who failed to make one of the All-NBA teams, since I don't think he edges out Wade for a spot on the third team.  Maybe Steph Curry would surpass him, but probably no one else.  So, there is a case to be made that Rondo is a top ten backcourt player. 

Is Rondo plus a non-PG on one of the three All-NBA teams a good enough foundation to build a championship-caliber roster around?  Maybe not if it's David Lee.  I have my doubts about Blake Griffin.  What about everyone else?

[D.o.s.]

No.

He didn't do it in 2007. He didn't do it in 2010. We have never made the Finals with Rondo as our best player.

are you joking about 2010? that was rondo's legendary year. he's the reason we came back against the cavs, and he's the reason we destroyed the magic. this truly was one of not just the best pg playoff performances ever but an all around greatest playoff performances

Revisionist history?

In 24 games during the 2010 playoffs Rondo had the following averages:

FG% 46.3
FT% 59.6
PPG 15.8
RPG 5.9
APG 9.3
SPG 1.9
TO 3.0

Solid? Yes. Great and legendary? No.

Is this a joke?  16, 9, 6 and 2 is only solid for a point guard?  Maybe it's the times we live in with so many great point guards.  Those numbers for the FOURTH option on a team is unheard of.

I'd say we can all agree that Rondo was the fourth option on that team.

As such, it is very unlikely he was the best player on that team.

...So, because of utterly unimpeachable, irrefutable science, he's never lead his team to the Finals. 

You can say things that aren't true all you want, just like you can judge a players worth by his shot attempts.

Edit: And then I go look at shot attempts, Rondo was second by shot attempts anyways the year in question. So really "fourth option" is just your slotting him into that spot in the pecking order by some other criteria.

You stay away from my science.