Author Topic: Danny needs to push hard into pursuing CP3  (Read 10762 times)

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Re: Danny needs to push hard into pursuing CP3
« Reply #15 on: May 24, 2013, 01:07:30 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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No.

He didn't do it in 2007. He didn't do it in 2010. We have never made the Finals with Rondo as our best player.
are you joking about 2010? that was rondo's legendary year. he's the reason we came back against the cavs, and he's the reason we destroyed the magic. this truly was one of not just the best pg playoff performances ever but an all around greatest playoff performances



That was the season he stepped up and proved he was a great player, and first showed the world that "Playoff Rondo" was a different beast entirely, but I wouldn't consider him better than any of the Big 3 that year, and I think it would be revisionist to say so.

And, if we're being candid, he's also the reason we lost to the Lakers. I remember a lot of this that series:


But don't take my word for it, most of the games are up on youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vC5dWYn04F8
« Last Edit: May 24, 2013, 01:16:39 PM by D.o.s. »
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Re: Danny needs to push hard into pursuing CP3
« Reply #16 on: May 24, 2013, 01:25:18 PM »

Offline Celtics18

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No.

He didn't do it in 2007. He didn't do it in 2010. We have never made the Finals with Rondo as our best player.
are you joking about 2010? that was rondo's legendary year. he's the reason we came back against the cavs, and he's the reason we destroyed the magic. this truly was one of not just the best pg playoff performances ever but an all around greatest playoff performances



That was the season he stepped up and proved he was a great player, and first showed the world that "Playoff Rondo" was a different beast entirely, but I wouldn't consider him better than any of the Big 3 that year, and I think it would be revisionist to say so.

And, if we're being candid, he's also the reason we lost to the Lakers. I remember a lot of this that series:


But don't take my word for it, most of the games are up on youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vC5dWYn04F8

That's not a picture from 2010, is it?  It looks a lot like Greg Stiemsma and Brandon Bass are out there on the floor in Celtics green.

Even if you want to say that Rajon Rondo was the sole reason that we lost to the Lakers (which I completely disagree with, by the way), the point is that he carried us to the finals.

I stand by that.  Statistically, he was our best player in that year's playoffs.  He was particularly good in the Cleveland series.  That series was the key to pushing us all the way to the Finals.  The team was on such a high and such a good basketball rhythm heading into the Orlando series that the Magic had no chance of stopping us.  Rondo was the main reason for that.  I'm not saying that Pierce, Garnett, and Allen (to a lesser extent) weren't good, but Rajon Rondo led that team. 

Saying that he was anything but our best player is the revisionist part.   
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Re: Danny needs to push hard into pursuing CP3
« Reply #17 on: May 24, 2013, 01:45:08 PM »

Offline sed522002

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No.

He didn't do it in 2007. He didn't do it in 2010. We have never made the Finals with Rondo as our best player.
are you joking about 2010? that was rondo's legendary year. he's the reason we came back against the cavs, and he's the reason we destroyed the magic. this truly was one of not just the best pg playoff performances ever but an all around greatest playoff performances



That was the season he stepped up and proved he was a great player, and first showed the world that "Playoff Rondo" was a different beast entirely, but I wouldn't consider him better than any of the Big 3 that year, and I think it would be revisionist to say so.

And, if we're being candid, he's also the reason we lost to the Lakers. I remember a lot of this that series:


But don't take my word for it, most of the games are up on youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vC5dWYn04F8

That top picture doesn't look like it's from 2010.

Re: Danny needs to push hard into pursuing CP3
« Reply #18 on: May 24, 2013, 02:02:47 PM »

Offline celtic -_- pride

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CP3 is not coming to boston. he doesnt want to be here... i thought we went through this already
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Re: Danny needs to push hard into pursuing CP3
« Reply #19 on: May 24, 2013, 02:34:33 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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Chris Paul is absolutely the best PG in the league.  The "best-of" list includes Tony Parker, Russell Westbrook, Stephen Curry, Deron WIlliams, healthy Derrick Rose  There are some young guns coming up like Kyrie Irving, Jrue Holiday, Mike Conley, Ricky Rubio, Damian Lillard and John Wall. 

Rondo is somewhere in the Top 10.  Chris Paul is undeniably a superior player...

Problem is, point guards don't really win titles in this league.  The last team to win a championship with a point guard as their best player would be the 80s Pistons and isiah Thomas.  It's a big man and scorer's league. 

So upgrading to Chris Paul would be nice, but it wouldn't be enough. 

Re: Danny needs to push hard into pursuing CP3
« Reply #20 on: May 24, 2013, 03:24:39 PM »

Offline Celtics18

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Chris Paul is absolutely the best PG in the league.  The "best-of" list includes Tony Parker, Russell Westbrook, Stephen Curry, Deron WIlliams, healthy Derrick Rose  There are some young guns coming up like Kyrie Irving, Jrue Holiday, Mike Conley, Ricky Rubio, Damian Lillard and John Wall. 

Rondo is somewhere in the Top 10.  Chris Paul is undeniably a superior player...

Problem is, point guards don't really win titles in this league.  The last team to win a championship with a point guard as their best player would be the 80s Pistons and isiah Thomas.  It's a big man and scorer's league. 

So upgrading to Chris Paul would be nice, but it wouldn't be enough.

Yes, top five is definitely in the top ten.  Tony Parker, Chauncey Billups, Jason Kidd, and even 2008 Rajon Rondo are all very, very good point guards who have won titles recently.  You may say that point guards don't win titles on their own, but it sure is helpful to have a good one. 

By the way, how do you not count Magic's Lakers as a team whose best player was their point guard?

One of these teams with an elite point guard is due to win a title in the near future.  Here's hoping Danny can put the right pieces together over the course of the next few years so that team can end up being Rondo's Celtics. 

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SG: C. Lee/B. Hield/T. Luwawu
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C:    N. Vucevic/K. Olynyk/E. Davis/C. Jefferson

Re: Danny needs to push hard into pursuing CP3
« Reply #21 on: May 24, 2013, 03:51:42 PM »

Offline gpap

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Though I am a fan of CP3 as a player and think he's the best PG in the league, I am no longer interested in him.

The more I hear about him and see him in those STUPID State Farm commercials, the more he comes off as a prima donna.

Also as mentioned, I think he's made it clear he wants nothing to do with Boston.

The hell with him

Re: Danny needs to push hard into pursuing CP3
« Reply #22 on: May 24, 2013, 03:53:17 PM »

Offline Quetzalcoatl

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The four current PGs left in are Parker (elite, but not the best), Conley and Hill (both in the 11-15 range) and Chalmers (impossible to gauge him since he is wide open all game).

The last 5 NBA champions have been lead by Mario Chalmers, washed up Jason Kidd, washed up Derek Fisher and Rondo before he fully had his game developed.  The last elite PG to win was Tony Parker six years ago. 

I'm just not seeing why having the best PG is important, especially considering that Chris Paul seems to be an "overbearing father" for lack of a better term in the locker room.  I know KG does it too, but at least he encourages his own team to be good and pumps up players like Stiemsma.  I think CP3 is a bit of an egotistical ass and ends up hurting his team's morale more often than not.  I don't see why you would want someone openly lowering teammates' confidence and overruling your coach in pressure situations.  I don't want anything to do with him and he isn't ever winning a championship unless he teams up with LeBron or Wiggins.

If we are going to get a big name Clipper that we know will never make it past the conference championship, I would much rather team up Blake Griffin with Rondo.  At least BG is fun to watch.  Chris Paul runs those stupid half court sets like his life depends on it and he still can't win. 

Re: Danny needs to push hard into pursuing CP3
« Reply #23 on: May 24, 2013, 04:07:06 PM »

Offline Yogi

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The amount of excuses people for Chris Paul is just astounding.  I just find it satisfying that the great Chris Paul who had "zero" help with the hornets go to the critically acclaimed, deepest team in the league to suffer a first round exit. 

Meanwhile in the playoffs...
Tyson Chandler has since won a title and advanced further.  David West has advanced further. 
Marco Belineli has advanced further. 
Jarett Jack and Carl Landry advanced further. 
Quincy Pondexter advanced further.
Jerryd Bayless advanced further. 

The Celtics on the other hand made deep playoff runs including one championship, finals and two eastern conference championship appearances with Rondo, and their two worst results in the same span without him. 

Chris Paul basically gets his coach fired.  http://deadspin.com/donald-sterling-all-but-says-clippers-players-got-vinny-509345857

Chris Paul couldn't wait to get out of New Orleans to sign with the Knicks
http://espn.go.com/new-york/nba/story/_/id/7303270/chris-paul-new-orleans-hornets-seeks-trade-new-york-knicks-sign-extension-according-report

Chris Paul annoys his teammmates
http://network.yardbarker.com/nba/article_external/deandre_jordan_and_blake_griffin_bickering_want_nothing_to_do_with_vinny_del_negro/13314817?linksrc=home_rg_head_13314817

Rondo has played for this team on one arm, one leg, and wants to stay a Celtic despite being discussed in trades.  By the way, he's played just as well as Chris Paul, if not better, when it matters... for 60% of what Chris Paul makes.
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Re: Danny needs to push hard into pursuing CP3
« Reply #24 on: May 24, 2013, 04:14:50 PM »

Offline blink

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Chris Paul is absolutely the best PG in the league.  The "best-of" list includes Tony Parker, Russell Westbrook, Stephen Curry, Deron WIlliams, healthy Derrick Rose  There are some young guns coming up like Kyrie Irving, Jrue Holiday, Mike Conley, Ricky Rubio, Damian Lillard and John Wall. 

Rondo is somewhere in the Top 10.  Chris Paul is undeniably a superior player...

Problem is, point guards don't really win titles in this league.  The last team to win a championship with a point guard as their best player would be the 80s Pistons and isiah Thomas.  It's a big man and scorer's league. 

So upgrading to Chris Paul would be nice, but it wouldn't be enough.

I agree that getting chris paul isn't going to be enough to make us a championship level team.  I don't want the C's to mortgage the future trying to get chris paul.  I think our team needs a go to scorer, preferably a 2 guard, and a killer big post player who can defend the paint and score.

But I disagree that paul is undeniably a superior player to Rondo.  Depends on what skills you value as a point guard. 
If I had to pick the top point guard right now I would say it is Tony Parker from the Spurs.  I think Rondo is a top 5 point guard.

Re: Danny needs to push hard into pursuing CP3
« Reply #25 on: May 24, 2013, 04:18:14 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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The Celtics already have a PG that is battle tested and has led the league in assists with over 11 per game for the last three years. Not many players in NBA history can say that.

They don't need a marginal upgrade at PG, what they need is a player better than Rondo to team with him and upgrade this team. Currently, excellent PGs are the easiest thing to find. Seems everyone has one. So I am good on keeping Rondo or if we are going to trade him, trade him for a talent at a different position because getting a great PG to replace him won't be that difficult.

Re: Danny needs to push hard into pursuing CP3
« Reply #26 on: May 24, 2013, 04:27:20 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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No.

He didn't do it in 2007. He didn't do it in 2010. We have never made the Finals with Rondo as our best player.
are you joking about 2010? that was rondo's legendary year. he's the reason we came back against the cavs, and he's the reason we destroyed the magic. this truly was one of not just the best pg playoff performances ever but an all around greatest playoff performances



That was the season he stepped up and proved he was a great player, and first showed the world that "Playoff Rondo" was a different beast entirely, but I wouldn't consider him better than any of the Big 3 that year, and I think it would be revisionist to say so.

And, if we're being candid, he's also the reason we lost to the Lakers. I remember a lot of this that series:


But don't take my word for it, most of the games are up on youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vC5dWYn04F8

That's not a picture from 2010, is it?  It looks a lot like Greg Stiemsma and Brandon Bass are out there on the floor in Celtics green.

Even if you want to say that Rajon Rondo was the sole reason that we lost to the Lakers (which I completely disagree with, by the way), the point is that he carried us to the finals.

I stand by that.  Statistically, he was our best player in that year's playoffs.  He was particularly good in the Cleveland series.  That series was the key to pushing us all the way to the Finals.  The team was on such a high and such a good basketball rhythm heading into the Orlando series that the Magic had no chance of stopping us.  Rondo was the main reason for that.  I'm not saying that Pierce, Garnett, and Allen (to a lesser extent) weren't good, but Rajon Rondo led that team. 

Saying that he was anything but our best player is the revisionist part.

Fair enough. To my eye I'd say that 2010 was the best point of skill/ability overlap between the Big 4, and that who ended up where is largely a matter of debate.

As for the Cavs series, I give that nod to KG and the Truth for emotionally abusing Lebron to the point that he completely no-showed a must-win Game 5.

Also, while that screengrab is not from 2010, that particular 'defensive scheme' is what I was trying to illustrate (and the Lakers used it very, very, often in that finals series). Namely let's leave Rondo alone and make him beat us.

Which is really another way of me saying that while I think swapping Rondo for CP3 is relatively useless, Rondo has had about as much success as Paul when he's been the team's best player--a mark I set as '10-'11 til the present.
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: Danny needs to push hard into pursuing CP3
« Reply #27 on: May 24, 2013, 04:39:47 PM »

Offline slamtheking

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Why bother? We already have a 27 year old playoffs-tested PG with a knee injury in his past who can't carry his team to the Finals.


Another way to look at it--if you wanted to upgrade this team to contend for a championship, what position would you look to?

Probably not the point.
beat me to it.  TP for you.

PG is last place this place needs an upgrade.  PF, SG and C would be my starting points.

Re: Danny needs to push hard into pursuing CP3
« Reply #28 on: May 24, 2013, 05:01:35 PM »

Offline Eddie20

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No.

He didn't do it in 2007. He didn't do it in 2010. We have never made the Finals with Rondo as our best player.
are you joking about 2010? that was rondo's legendary year. he's the reason we came back against the cavs, and he's the reason we destroyed the magic. this truly was one of not just the best pg playoff performances ever but an all around greatest playoff performances

Revisionist history?

In 24 games during the 2010 playoffs Rondo had the following averages:

FG% 46.3
FT% 59.6
PPG 15.8
RPG 5.9
APG 9.3
SPG 1.9
TO 3.0

Solid? Yes. Great and legendary? No.

Re: Danny needs to push hard into pursuing CP3
« Reply #29 on: May 24, 2013, 05:02:25 PM »

Offline pearljammer10

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Why bother? We already have a 27 year old playoffs-tested PG with a knee injury in his past who can't carry his team to the Finals.


Another way to look at it--if you wanted to upgrade this team to contend for a championship, what position would you look to?

Probably not the point.
beat me to it.  TP for you.

PG is last place this place needs an upgrade.  PF, SG and C would be my starting points.

Exactly. Rondo is a top 3 point guard in the league right now. And is also on a bargain contract. Why would we want Chris Paul who is a minimal upgrade when we have so many other pieces to fill? Also with Paul more than likely strapping up a team with a max contract.