Author Topic: How bad did Sam Presti mess up OKC?  (Read 6039 times)

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Re: How bad did Sam Presti mess up OKC?
« Reply #45 on: May 14, 2013, 02:59:55 PM »

Offline dlpin

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I don't think you can really ask this qyestion until we see what the lottery  pick they got from Toronto turns into. Kevin Martin was not the main piece in the Harden trade. This pick was.

If they pick Saric and he turns into a great player then how can you say he messed up?

OKC is a small market team. They can't support three max guys and place quality role players around them. The next CBA really doesn't allow any team to have three max guys anymore.

Also it's not that smart to be so top heavy in regards to your contracts. Look at the Lakers. One guy goes down and you're done.

If Westbrook doesn't get hurt and they're on their way to the Finals is this even a question?

I actually think Memphis could beat a healthy OKC in Seven. They're better than they were in 2011 and OKC is worse.

With Russ, OKC are overwhelming favorites and win in 5, or 6 tops.

What do you base this on? Memphis won the regular reason series between them, with both at full strength in all 3 games. Sure, regular season isn't a great predictor of playoff success, but there is nothing to indicate that at full strength this wouldn't have been a very close series.

Re: How bad did Sam Presti mess up OKC?
« Reply #46 on: May 14, 2013, 03:17:27 PM »

Offline Boris Badenov

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I don't think you can really ask this qyestion until we see what the lottery  pick they got from Toronto turns into. Kevin Martin was not the main piece in the Harden trade. This pick was.

If they pick Saric and he turns into a great player then how can you say he messed up?

OKC is a small market team. They can't support three max guys and place quality role players around them. The next CBA really doesn't allow any team to have three max guys anymore.

Also it's not that smart to be so top heavy in regards to your contracts. Look at the Lakers. One guy goes down and you're done.

If Westbrook doesn't get hurt and they're on their way to the Finals is this even a question?

I actually think Memphis could beat a healthy OKC in Seven. They're better than they were in 2011 and OKC is worse.

With Russ, OKC are overwhelming favorites and win in 5, or 6 tops.

What do you base this on? Memphis won the regular reason series between them, with both at full strength in all 3 games. Sure, regular season isn't a great predictor of playoff success, but there is nothing to indicate that at full strength this wouldn't have been a very close series.

I think the "overwhelming favorites" line refers to others' assessments, not yours individually.

Every ESPN writer, for example, picked the Thunder to go farther in the playoffs than Memphis before Westbrook got hurt.

Hollinger had the Thunder's chances of winning it all as around ten times greater than Memphis'.

Vegas had the Thunder 4-1 and the Griz 30-1 to win it all at the start of the playoffs.

These evaluations all considered the possibility that the Grizzlies and Thunder would meet in the playoffs, so I think a natural conclusion is that the Thunder were heavily favored in that event.

Re: How bad did Sam Presti mess up OKC?
« Reply #47 on: May 14, 2013, 04:05:22 PM »

Offline Kane3387

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I don't think you can really ask this qyestion until we see what the lottery  pick they got from Toronto turns into. Kevin Martin was not the main piece in the Harden trade. This pick was.

If they pick Saric and he turns into a great player then how can you say he messed up?

OKC is a small market team. They can't support three max guys and place quality role players around them. The next CBA really doesn't allow any team to have three max guys anymore.

Also it's not that smart to be so top heavy in regards to your contracts. Look at the Lakers. One guy goes down and you're done.

If Westbrook doesn't get hurt and they're on their way to the Finals is this even a question?

I agree with the premise, but ... Presti overpaid wildly for Perkins and didn't get anything remotely close to value for either Green or Harden.

He isn't the genius people have made him out to be ... Ainge also stole his wallet in the Ray Allen deal ... although he's held harmless for the Westbrook injury. Clearly, those things happen.

His track record in trades isn't great. His ability to draft is pretty legit. Ibaka was a great find. No one had Westbrook going that high, but he saw the potential. Harden was a good pick. Reggie Jackson. His years with the Spurs and his drafting of Tony Parker.

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Re: How bad did Sam Presti mess up OKC?
« Reply #48 on: May 14, 2013, 05:00:15 PM »

Offline Eddie20

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I don't think you can really ask this qyestion until we see what the lottery  pick they got from Toronto turns into. Kevin Martin was not the main piece in the Harden trade. This pick was.

If they pick Saric and he turns into a great player then how can you say he messed up?

OKC is a small market team. They can't support three max guys and place quality role players around them. The next CBA really doesn't allow any team to have three max guys anymore.

Also it's not that smart to be so top heavy in regards to your contracts. Look at the Lakers. One guy goes down and you're done.

If Westbrook doesn't get hurt and they're on their way to the Finals is this even a question?

I actually think Memphis could beat a healthy OKC in Seven. They're better than they were in 2011 and OKC is worse.

With Russ, OKC are overwhelming favorites and win in 5, or 6 tops.

What do you base this on? Memphis won the regular reason series between them, with both at full strength in all 3 games. Sure, regular season isn't a great predictor of playoff success, but there is nothing to indicate that at full strength this wouldn't have been a very close series.

I think the "overwhelming favorites" line refers to others' assessments, not yours individually.

Every ESPN writer, for example, picked the Thunder to go farther in the playoffs than Memphis before Westbrook got hurt.

Hollinger had the Thunder's chances of winning it all as around ten times greater than Memphis'.

Vegas had the Thunder 4-1 and the Griz 30-1 to win it all at the start of the playoffs.

These evaluations all considered the possibility that the Grizzlies and Thunder would meet in the playoffs, so I think a natural conclusion is that the Thunder were heavily favored in that event.

Perhaps the Hollinger formula and not necessarily Hollinger, since I really doubt he would be giving those odds against the team he's VP of basketball ops for.  ;)

Re: How bad did Sam Presti mess up OKC?
« Reply #49 on: May 14, 2013, 06:00:52 PM »

Offline CelticG1

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They were going to lose Green anyways in FA, so getting a big man who you did want to pay was a win for him.

I can't even blame him for the Perkins contract, he couldn't have known or planned for how the new CBA would impact how salary limited he'd be. Remember they could have amnestied Perkins to eliminate that constraint, its not Perkins salary that matters. Its Durant/Westbrook/Ibaka that made them decline to pay Harden.

He chose Ibaka over Harden and then chose to trade Harden during the offseason instead of rolling the dice forward to try and win this year. Those are the two things that jump out to me.

The main thing for me was trading for Perkins who had a devastating knee injury. He came back for some games and looked decent and then injured either that knee or his other knee and was out a while.

Pretty big risk for a big guy like Perk having knee problems like that.


Re: How bad did Sam Presti mess up OKC?
« Reply #50 on: May 14, 2013, 06:14:43 PM »

Offline CelticD

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People seem to forget that while Harden and Westbrook were lottery picks they were by no means 'sure things.' A LOT of people really doubted the picks at the time.

You can play Monday quarterback on the Perkins trade, but people forget that moving Green freed up playing time for both Harden and Ibaka. Presti also refused to give up Harden in the trade.

As who said, Scott Brooks is the problem. Russell Westrbook getting injured will be the best thing that ever happened to the team, b/c it's exposed his limited offensive sets and stubbornness. Can him, hire Brian Shaw, watch the championships pile up.

i mean...okc may jus be 2nd round exits this season. westbrook is an important part of the team. no he may not finish as well as durant, but without harden, he's easily the best playmaker on the team. besides, he's only 24, he has room to grow. its amazin how much ppl hate him to the point where someone actually says that a season ending injury will be the best thing that's ever happened to a team. like wth.
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Re: How bad did Sam Presti mess up OKC?
« Reply #51 on: May 14, 2013, 07:08:55 PM »

Offline Boris Badenov

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I don't think you can really ask this qyestion until we see what the lottery  pick they got from Toronto turns into. Kevin Martin was not the main piece in the Harden trade. This pick was.

If they pick Saric and he turns into a great player then how can you say he messed up?

OKC is a small market team. They can't support three max guys and place quality role players around them. The next CBA really doesn't allow any team to have three max guys anymore.

Also it's not that smart to be so top heavy in regards to your contracts. Look at the Lakers. One guy goes down and you're done.

If Westbrook doesn't get hurt and they're on their way to the Finals is this even a question?

I actually think Memphis could beat a healthy OKC in Seven. They're better than they were in 2011 and OKC is worse.

With Russ, OKC are overwhelming favorites and win in 5, or 6 tops.

What do you base this on? Memphis won the regular reason series between them, with both at full strength in all 3 games. Sure, regular season isn't a great predictor of playoff success, but there is nothing to indicate that at full strength this wouldn't have been a very close series.

I think the "overwhelming favorites" line refers to others' assessments, not yours individually.

Every ESPN writer, for example, picked the Thunder to go farther in the playoffs than Memphis before Westbrook got hurt.

Hollinger had the Thunder's chances of winning it all as around ten times greater than Memphis'.

Vegas had the Thunder 4-1 and the Griz 30-1 to win it all at the start of the playoffs.

These evaluations all considered the possibility that the Grizzlies and Thunder would meet in the playoffs, so I think a natural conclusion is that the Thunder were heavily favored in that event.

Perhaps the Hollinger formula and not necessarily Hollinger, since I really doubt he would be giving those odds against the team he's VP of basketball ops for.  ;)

Perhaps he rigged his model to under-predict MEM's odds, so that they would outperform and he would look better as VP!

Re: How bad did Sam Presti mess up OKC?
« Reply #52 on: May 14, 2013, 07:24:05 PM »

Offline StartOrien

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People seem to forget that while Harden and Westbrook were lottery picks they were by no means 'sure things.' A LOT of people really doubted the picks at the time.

You can play Monday quarterback on the Perkins trade, but people forget that moving Green freed up playing time for both Harden and Ibaka. Presti also refused to give up Harden in the trade.

As who said, Scott Brooks is the problem. Russell Westrbook getting injured will be the best thing that ever happened to the team, b/c it's exposed his limited offensive sets and stubbornness. Can him, hire Brian Shaw, watch the championships pile up.

i mean...okc may jus be 2nd round exits this season. westbrook is an important part of the team. no he may not finish as well as durant, but without harden, he's easily the best playmaker on the team. besides, he's only 24, he has room to grow. its amazin how much ppl hate him to the point where someone actually says that a season ending injury will be the best thing that's ever happened to a team. like wth.

You're greatly misinterpreting what Im saying here. I'm saying Westbrooks injury has exposed Scott Brooks as a poor coach. In my opinion he's been coasting strictly on this teams talent, and has done nothing to further their chances of winning.

As is Westbrook is one of the best point guards in the league. I think he takes an unfair amount of criticism, and most of that comes because of the poor offensive sets his coach has given him.

A good coach could get even more out of Russ.
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Re: How bad did Sam Presti mess up OKC?
« Reply #53 on: May 14, 2013, 08:40:24 PM »

Offline RebusRankin

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The move I think he should have made was Westbrook for Rondo.

Re: How bad did Sam Presti mess up OKC?
« Reply #54 on: May 14, 2013, 09:13:00 PM »

Offline guava_wrench

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I am shocked that this thread exists. They lost an all-NBA caliber player and there is a salary cap.

The Thunder went to the finals last season while Green didn't even play a single game. And now someone is going to exaggerate the significance of losses with Westbrook out? Not only is Westbrook out, but they lost him during the playoffs will no time to adjust, and now they are playing an excellent defense.

Someone said it is not good to be top heavy with contracts. Huh? Aren't all championship teams top heavy with contracts??? We were when we won it all. The same with Miami and with LA.

If the Spurs lost Duncan or Parker in the championship years, do they win? If we lost one of our top 2 players in 2008, do we win? Do we even make it past Cleveland?

Re: How bad did Sam Presti mess up OKC?
« Reply #55 on: May 14, 2013, 09:16:43 PM »

Offline CelticConcourse

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The move I think he should have made was Westbrook for Rondo.
Or just keep Westbrook (top-5 player in league, according to ESPN)
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Re: How bad did Sam Presti mess up OKC?
« Reply #56 on: May 14, 2013, 09:20:28 PM »

Offline dark_lord

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yeah presti really messed up that organization ::)

Re: How bad did Sam Presti mess up OKC?
« Reply #57 on: May 14, 2013, 10:33:40 PM »

Offline Boris Badenov

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yeah presti really messed up that organization ::)

This thread answers a question for me, honestly.

I've been thinking that many posters on this board are unfairly targeting Doc and Danny for criticism because of a "grass is greener" syndrome that prevents them from appreciating anyone who runs the Celtics, while giving those who run other organizations a free pass.

Now I have concluded that this board is just populated by a disproportionate number of grouches.


Re: How bad did Sam Presti mess up OKC?
« Reply #58 on: May 15, 2013, 01:27:48 AM »

Offline get_banners

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this thread is a bit odd. presti might be as lucky of a GM as there is in the league (3 straight years of top 5 picks in good drafts helps a lot - and they shouldn't have gotten picks that high if not for the ping pong balls helping them out big-time), but he's hardly bad. yeah, i think he made a few mistakes (perk's contract was a bit crazy and led indirectly to harden being traded), but its hard to say he's not set up OKC to be a top team (barring injuries) for a while. well...the magic ping pong balls did that more than he did, but still, he hasn't screwed much up.

Re: How bad did Sam Presti mess up OKC?
« Reply #59 on: May 15, 2013, 02:26:52 AM »

Offline ejk3489

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its amazin how much ppl hate him to the point where someone actually says that a season ending injury will be the best thing that's ever happened to a team. like wth.

Seems to be a pretty common theme this year among organizations with top rated point guards. Just look at what's happened with Rose in Chicago. He went from being the golden child MVP to a media punching bag that has people honestly questioning whether the team would be better off without him in favor of Nate Rob. It's ridiculous. Then of course there's our own point guard...I don't think I need to further explain the relationship between Rondo and Celtics fans.

 

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