Author Topic: How bad did Sam Presti mess up OKC?  (Read 13081 times)

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Re: How bad did Sam Presti mess up OKC?
« Reply #15 on: May 14, 2013, 10:57:29 AM »

Offline StartOrien

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People seem to forget that while Harden and Westbrook were lottery picks they were by no means 'sure things.' A LOT of people really doubted the picks at the time.

You can play Monday quarterback on the Perkins trade, but people forget that moving Green freed up playing time for both Harden and Ibaka. Presti also refused to give up Harden in the trade.

As who said, Scott Brooks is the problem. Russell Westrbook getting injured will be the best thing that ever happened to the team, b/c it's exposed his limited offensive sets and stubbornness. Can him, hire Brian Shaw, watch the championships pile up.

Re: How bad did Sam Presti mess up OKC?
« Reply #16 on: May 14, 2013, 10:59:13 AM »

Offline Chief

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When healthy, they're the 2nd best team in the league. He's got 2 draft picks this year,a $12 million expiring player, and still holds his amnesty card (Perk?). Plus, his two best players are both signed long term. I think he's doing an excellent job.
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Re: How bad did Sam Presti mess up OKC?
« Reply #17 on: May 14, 2013, 11:01:31 AM »

Offline Fafnir

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I think Nick Collison should be playing a lot more also. A really good high post passer. With the PG gone and with offensive options limited, a reliable high post passing big man is valuable. It's not like he is a dodgy defender and it is not like Perkins is setting the world on fire with his performances. I don't get it. Why play N.Collison only 18mpg? Give him closer to 30mpg.
Collison has been a foul machine against Z-Bo and Gasol.

4 fouls in 20 minutes
6 fouls in 15 minutes
5 fouls in 14 minutes
6 fouls in 20 minutes

Collison can't keep himself on the floor.

Re: How bad did Sam Presti mess up OKC?
« Reply #18 on: May 14, 2013, 11:03:38 AM »

Offline Fafnir

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I'm not in love with Brooks either, but I don't think you can just count on the next coach doing a better job than him.

Re: How bad did Sam Presti mess up OKC?
« Reply #19 on: May 14, 2013, 11:11:11 AM »

Offline Evantime34

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I wouldn't be surprised if in the off season they attempted to deal Perkins and some of their youth/picks for a veteran(s) to put them over the top. I see them as a solid trading partner for KG or Pierce.

I think Presti has done a great job. He has drafted impeccably adding fresh talent to the pipe line every single year. I expect them to get a good rotation player with the pick from Toronto, probably a high upside european (Gobert or Giannis) that they can slowly develop like they did Ibaka.

Presti's biggest mistake is having Brooks as his coach. He was fine while Westbrook, Ibaka, Harden, and KD were growing up but now that they are a legit title contender it's time to reach out to Phil Jackson.
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Re: How bad did Sam Presti mess up OKC?
« Reply #20 on: May 14, 2013, 11:14:04 AM »

Offline StartOrien

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I'm not in love with Brooks either, but I don't think you can just count on the next coach doing a better job than him.

The core of that team had been together for years, how much has the offense progressed? Kevin Durant is a gift from the playbook gods and they've had absolutely no development on the offensive side of the ball for years now.

I mean, honestly, think about all the talent they have, and how incompetent they can look as a unit.

Re: How bad did Sam Presti mess up OKC?
« Reply #21 on: May 14, 2013, 11:17:14 AM »

Offline Chris

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I'm not in love with Brooks either, but I don't think you can just count on the next coach doing a better job than him.

The core of that team had been together for years, how much has the offense progressed? Kevin Durant is a gift from the playbook gods and they've had absolutely no development on the offensive side of the ball for years now.

I mean, honestly, think about all the talent they have, and how incompetent they can look as a unit.

I think this is a roster issue though.  This is the problem when your team is built around multiple ISO players.  It can make your offense look bad if they have off nights.  If they didn't have Westbrook and Durant together, I have a feeling the offense would look a lot different.  But, at this point, it is a little late to dramatically change it. 

Re: How bad did Sam Presti mess up OKC?
« Reply #22 on: May 14, 2013, 11:19:51 AM »

Offline scaryjerry

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Personally, I felt that the error with OKC's team was that they should have trade westbrook for a high tier pass first point guard, and kept Harden. That is how I felt last year.

When CP3 was being shopped for a new home two summers ago, I had thought for sure that OKC would be interested in a deal.

And then last summer I had thought that they would find a point guard who did not shoot more than your teams leading scorer. But they shipped Harden over Westbrook.

I am not a Westbrook fan. I think that he is Gilbert Arenas but with an amazingly talented teammate.

Rather have westbrook then cp3, no questions asked. Westbrook is just as important to the thunder as Durant...sick of this argument, the thunder need westbrook to be that aggressive to be the contenders they were before he got hurt...blame Durant not shooting enough on him, not Russell

Re: How bad did Sam Presti mess up OKC?
« Reply #23 on: May 14, 2013, 11:20:15 AM »

Offline Fafnir

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I'm not in love with Brooks either, but I don't think you can just count on the next coach doing a better job than him.

The core of that team had been together for years, how much has the offense progressed? Kevin Durant is a gift from the playbook gods and they've had absolutely no development on the offensive side of the ball for years now.

I mean, honestly, think about all the talent they have, and how incompetent they can look as a unit.
The offense has progressed from 12th, 5th, 2nd, and 1st in the league as far as offensive rating.

So much of their ugly offense comes from Westbrooks warts and the fact that they're playing Thabo/Perkins/Fisher as much as they do.

I fully believe another coach could craft a prettier offense, I'm not sure it'd be more effective.

Re: How bad did Sam Presti mess up OKC?
« Reply #24 on: May 14, 2013, 11:22:30 AM »

Offline Fafnir

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I'm not in love with Brooks either, but I don't think you can just count on the next coach doing a better job than him.

The core of that team had been together for years, how much has the offense progressed? Kevin Durant is a gift from the playbook gods and they've had absolutely no development on the offensive side of the ball for years now.

I mean, honestly, think about all the talent they have, and how incompetent they can look as a unit.

I think this is a roster issue though.  This is the problem when your team is built around multiple ISO players.  It can make your offense look bad if they have off nights.  If they didn't have Westbrook and Durant together, I have a feeling the offense would look a lot different.  But, at this point, it is a little late to dramatically change it.
And Durant has greatly expanded his playmaking this year.

Re: How bad did Sam Presti mess up OKC?
« Reply #25 on: May 14, 2013, 11:25:02 AM »

Offline StartOrien

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I'm not in love with Brooks either, but I don't think you can just count on the next coach doing a better job than him.

The core of that team had been together for years, how much has the offense progressed? Kevin Durant is a gift from the playbook gods and they've had absolutely no development on the offensive side of the ball for years now.

I mean, honestly, think about all the talent they have, and how incompetent they can look as a unit.

I think this is a roster issue though.  This is the problem when your team is built around multiple ISO players.  It can make your offense look bad if they have off nights.  If they didn't have Westbrook and Durant together, I have a feeling the offense would look a lot different.  But, at this point, it is a little late to dramatically change it.

But at some point you have to figure out a way to make it work. You have to figure out a way to teach Durant to move without the ball. Whether that's through teaching, or designed plays.

When's the last time you've seen a back pick set for Durant on a Westbrook iso?

How many times have you seen a 1-4 pick and roll where everybody else on the team just stood still? Why is Ibaka involved so frequently when hes best utilized on the baseline?

Re: How bad did Sam Presti mess up OKC?
« Reply #26 on: May 14, 2013, 11:27:14 AM »

Offline Fafnir

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I'm not in love with Brooks either, but I don't think you can just count on the next coach doing a better job than him.

The core of that team had been together for years, how much has the offense progressed? Kevin Durant is a gift from the playbook gods and they've had absolutely no development on the offensive side of the ball for years now.

I mean, honestly, think about all the talent they have, and how incompetent they can look as a unit.

I think this is a roster issue though.  This is the problem when your team is built around multiple ISO players.  It can make your offense look bad if they have off nights.  If they didn't have Westbrook and Durant together, I have a feeling the offense would look a lot different.  But, at this point, it is a little late to dramatically change it.

But at some point you have to figure out a way to make it work. You have to figure out a way to teach Durant to move without the ball. Whether that's through teaching, or designed plays.

When's the last time you've seen a back pick set for Durant on a Westbrook iso?
They run action like that all the time to try and get Durant open on for a curl jumper. A lot of the time they just help off Perkins/Thabo to prevent it or Westbrook just lowers his head to make offense for himself.

Re: How bad did Sam Presti mess up OKC?
« Reply #27 on: May 14, 2013, 11:35:17 AM »

Offline StartOrien

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I'm not in love with Brooks either, but I don't think you can just count on the next coach doing a better job than him.

The core of that team had been together for years, how much has the offense progressed? Kevin Durant is a gift from the playbook gods and they've had absolutely no development on the offensive side of the ball for years now.

I mean, honestly, think about all the talent they have, and how incompetent they can look as a unit.
The offense has progressed from 12th, 5th, 2nd, and 1st in the league as far as offensive rating.

So much of their ugly offense comes from Westbrooks warts and the fact that they're playing Thabo/Perkins/Fisher as much as they do.

I fully believe another coach could craft a prettier offense, I'm not sure it'd be more effective.

I'm rarely the guy who won't just admit he's wrong, but I'm going to continue the fight.

This offense can be slowed down by good defensive teams, and really, it'd be unstoppable if this team ran more offensive sets than my 7th grade B-team.

I think Westbrook's 'warts' plays are the product of this team being really poorly coached, and him having to force the action too frequently. Maybe I'm relying on my eyes too much and being stubborn with data, but I just cant stand to watch the amount of times Russell has the ball in his hand and Durant pulling the old Antoine routine of holding his right hand above his head 5 feet from the 3 point line announcing its 'his turn'

Re: How bad did Sam Presti mess up OKC?
« Reply #28 on: May 14, 2013, 11:38:36 AM »

Offline StartOrien

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As far as why I keep talking about Westbrook, I can kind of forgive him for what the team is doing currently. Just doesn't have the pieces to cut it.

A lot of that is acquiring Martin for Harden (as opposed to a player who is a more capable creator and/or distributor) but it's tough to ride Presti when his resume is SO impressive.

Re: How bad did Sam Presti mess up OKC?
« Reply #29 on: May 14, 2013, 11:41:22 AM »

Offline Fafnir

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I get that you don't like the structure of their offense, but it is still very effective. I still believe that the offense that you dislike is mostly a result of having a scoring PG like Westbrook.

Brooks has tried to reign him in, remember the benching he got in the playoffs? But a coach can only do so much when the guy is a max contract player who plays a certain way. And westbrook is one of the best players in the league playing ugly. Even ugly he's becoming a better assist man etc too....