Author Topic: Roy H.... your thoughts on Jeff Green now?  (Read 8603 times)

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Re: Roy H.... your thoughts on Jeff Green now?
« Reply #45 on: May 16, 2013, 01:09:28 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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Paul was rebounding in place of PF for much of this season, it really inflated his totals.

I feel weird saying that, because he stepped up when the team needed him to grab those boards. Not every player can do that (Jeff Green for example certainly can't).

I think he can (as in he has the physical tools to make him a good rebounder), he just doesn't want to.
By that logic every NBA player who isn't a good shooter doesn't want to be a good shooter, they all have the physical tools.

Rebounding is a skill, Jeff Green isn't good at it. I hope he improves at it, but want/heart/etc isn't the only thing to it.

Re: Roy H.... your thoughts on Jeff Green now?
« Reply #46 on: May 16, 2013, 01:21:19 PM »

Offline Sizzlack

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He was extremely inconsistent early, going months without stringing together three good (or bad) games in a row.

But don't the reports that surfaced later in the season, about his doctor saying that he wouldn't be at full strength until 18 months post-surgery, probably have you grading his early season struggles differently?


Not particularly.  I doubt Green's heart issues had anything to do with his passivity, since this is a trait he's showed for most of his career.  Green wasn't playing worse than he traditionally has.  Rather, he was playing at the exact same level he has.

In the last third of the season or so, Green seriously stepped up his game.  He gets credit for that, but it doesn't mean that everything that came before that was the result of an injury.

Not a result of an injury, no, be a result of a shift in mentality.

Let's not forget that from day 1 he started his NBA career in the shadow of Durant. He later started sharing that spotlight with westbrook, and Harden. He has never been asked to be "the guy" for a team, carry the scoring, be aggressive.

Also, he almost died. Facing a near death experience can really alter someone's out look on life. I think what we're finally seeing with him is not an outlier, but a coming out. We're seeing what happens when a man is faced with his own mortality and must decide how he's going to make every moment count; because he realizes more than ever, that those moments could be limited.

Re: Roy H.... your thoughts on Jeff Green now?
« Reply #47 on: May 16, 2013, 04:37:35 PM »

Offline rickyfan3.0...

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I think Roy was spot on about Green. I don't like him as a guy that we can win with. I value consistency more than anything, and that just isn't him.

Re: Roy H.... your thoughts on Jeff Green now?
« Reply #48 on: May 16, 2013, 04:43:23 PM »

Offline LB3533

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I think Roy was spot on about Green. I don't like him as a guy that we can win with. I value consistency more than anything, and that just isn't him.

Funny, most people are saying that Green is and has always been consistent, just consistently unimpressive.

This season, the one after his heart condition problem, may be the only real evidence of his inconsistent play. But it seemed that Green has solved that inconsistency, the playoff games are good proof.

Re: Roy H.... your thoughts on Jeff Green now?
« Reply #49 on: May 16, 2013, 04:56:13 PM »

Offline CelticConcourse

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Paul was rebounding in place of PF for much of this season, it really inflated his totals.

I feel weird saying that, because he stepped up when the team needed him to grab those boards. Not every player can do that (Jeff Green for example certainly can't).

I think he can (as in he has the physical tools to make him a good rebounder), he just doesn't want to.

Why wouldn't he want to? :\
Jeff Green - Top 5 SF

[Kevin Garnett]
"I've always said J. Green is going to be one of the best players to ever play this game"

Re: Roy H.... your thoughts on Jeff Green now?
« Reply #50 on: May 16, 2013, 06:00:12 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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I think Roy was spot on about Green. I don't like him as a guy that we can win with. I value consistency more than anything, and that just isn't him.

Funny, most people are saying that Green is and has always been consistent, just consistently unimpressive.

This season, the one after his heart condition problem, may be the only real evidence of his inconsistent play. But it seemed that Green has solved that inconsistency, the playoff games are good proof.
I don't see it that way. I think people are saying that Green consistently puts up the same per minute stats on a yearly basis. But within those years, because of his passive play, he disappears for quarters and even games at a time and then shows up like a star at others. He is consistently inconsistent but in doing so he puts up consistent per minute numbers.

Re: Roy H.... your thoughts on Jeff Green now?
« Reply #51 on: May 16, 2013, 06:08:34 PM »

Offline CelticConcourse

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I think Roy was spot on about Green. I don't like him as a guy that we can win with. I value consistency more than anything, and that just isn't him.

Funny, most people are saying that Green is and has always been consistent, just consistently unimpressive.

This season, the one after his heart condition problem, may be the only real evidence of his inconsistent play. But it seemed that Green has solved that inconsistency, the playoff games are good proof.
I don't see it that way. I think people are saying that Green consistently puts up the same per minute stats on a yearly basis. But within those years, because of his passive play, he disappears for quarters and even games at a time and then shows up like a star at others. He is consistently inconsistent but in doing so he puts up consistent per minute numbers.

If he averages 20.3ppg every year in the playoffs, I won't be one to complain ;D
Jeff Green - Top 5 SF

[Kevin Garnett]
"I've always said J. Green is going to be one of the best players to ever play this game"

Re: Roy H.... your thoughts on Jeff Green now?
« Reply #52 on: May 16, 2013, 07:56:28 PM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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Paul was rebounding in place of PF for much of this season, it really inflated his totals.

I feel weird saying that, because he stepped up when the team needed him to grab those boards. Not every player can do that (Jeff Green for example certainly can't).

I think he can (as in he has the physical tools to make him a good rebounder), he just doesn't want to.

Why wouldn't he want to? :\

He has the physical tools in theory to be a good rebounder, but rebounding is only a somewhat related to physical - a lot of it is mental.

Look at guys like Sully and Zach Randolf - both exceptional rebounders and yet both are undersized at their position and lack athleticism.

Green has the length, athleticism for it but he probably doesn't have the 'nose for the ball'.  Things like understanding where the ball will come off depending on when where it's shot from, boxing out principles, etc.

Re: Roy H.... your thoughts on Jeff Green now?
« Reply #53 on: May 16, 2013, 07:58:45 PM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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As for Jeff Green, where's this talk of inconsistency coming from?

You can argue that he plays good in some quarters and bad in others, but most players do.  Pierce is the same - he'll score 15 in a quarter and then score 5 the rest of the game.

The important thing is that from gamee to game he's pretty consistent.  In the playoffs Jeff Scored 18+ points in almost every single game - I think he only had one game where his scoring numbers were down. He was by far our most consistent scorer in the series AND our most efficient.

If Green took more shots and was more forceful (the way Pierce can be at times) his efficiency would drop, but he'd probably be averaging 25PPG +

Re: Roy H.... your thoughts on Jeff Green now?
« Reply #54 on: May 16, 2013, 08:03:48 PM »

Offline CelticConcourse

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Paul was rebounding in place of PF for much of this season, it really inflated his totals.

I feel weird saying that, because he stepped up when the team needed him to grab those boards. Not every player can do that (Jeff Green for example certainly can't).

I think he can (as in he has the physical tools to make him a good rebounder), he just doesn't want to.

Why wouldn't he want to? :\

He has the physical tools in theory to be a good rebounder, but rebounding is only a somewhat related to physical - a lot of it is mental.

Look at guys like Sully and Zach Randolf - both exceptional rebounders and yet both are undersized at their position and lack athleticism.

Green has the length, athleticism for it but he probably doesn't have the 'nose for the ball'.  Things like understanding where the ball will come off depending on when where it's shot from, boxing out principles, etc.

Perhaps he could watch some film.
Jeff Green - Top 5 SF

[Kevin Garnett]
"I've always said J. Green is going to be one of the best players to ever play this game"

Re: Roy H.... your thoughts on Jeff Green now?
« Reply #55 on: May 16, 2013, 08:20:55 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Paul was rebounding in place of PF for much of this season, it really inflated his totals.

I feel weird saying that, because he stepped up when the team needed him to grab those boards. Not every player can do that (Jeff Green for example certainly can't).

I think he can (as in he has the physical tools to make him a good rebounder), he just doesn't want to.

Why wouldn't he want to? :\

He has the physical tools in theory to be a good rebounder, but rebounding is only a somewhat related to physical - a lot of it is mental.

Look at guys like Sully and Zach Randolf - both exceptional rebounders and yet both are undersized at their position and lack athleticism.

Green has the length, athleticism for it but he probably doesn't have the 'nose for the ball'.  Things like understanding where the ball will come off depending on when where it's shot from, boxing out principles, etc.

Perhaps he could watch some film.
Perhaps you guys should stop watching the last 26 games he played and instead watch the other 370 he played before them.

Do you guys think I am making this stuff up? Go talk to OKC fans that were saying the same about the guy for 4 years. Sam Presti kept Serge Ibaka after seeing him for 18 months rather than Jeff Green who he had seen for 3 1/2 years. Why? Consistency, aggression, rebounding and interior presence. All things Jeff lacks.

He had a great last 25-30 games for the C's. That doesn't mean he has completely become something he had been his entire career.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2013, 08:26:01 PM by nickagneta »

Re: Roy H.... your thoughts on Jeff Green now?
« Reply #56 on: May 16, 2013, 08:31:25 PM »

Offline CelticConcourse

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Do you guys think I am making this stuff up? Go talk to OKC fans that were saying the same about the guy for 4 years. Sam Presti kept Serge Ibaka after seeing him for 18 months rather than Jeff Green who he had seen for 3 1/2 years. Why? Consistency, aggression, rebounding and interior presence. All things Jeff lacks.

To be honest, I'm pretty sure Presti kept Ibaka because he already had a pretty good SF; it wasn't because he didn't think Green was good enough.
Jeff Green - Top 5 SF

[Kevin Garnett]
"I've always said J. Green is going to be one of the best players to ever play this game"

Re: Roy H.... your thoughts on Jeff Green now?
« Reply #57 on: May 16, 2013, 08:44:36 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Do you guys think I am making this stuff up? Go talk to OKC fans that were saying the same about the guy for 4 years. Sam Presti kept Serge Ibaka after seeing him for 18 months rather than Jeff Green who he had seen for 3 1/2 years. Why? Consistency, aggression, rebounding and interior presence. All things Jeff lacks.

To be honest, I'm pretty sure Presti kept Ibaka because he already had a pretty good SF; it wasn't because he didn't think Green was good enough.
No. Presti was willing to keep Green but Green was expecting way more money for his extension than he was worth. Presti didn't want to/couldn't pay that for someone that didn't give him the complete package. He traded Green for rebounding and inside presence and hoped Ibaka would continue to develop. Ibaka developed leaps and bounds over the next 18 months and it paid off handsomely for OKC.

But Presti didn't trade Green specifically because he had Durant. Green just didn't give that team what it needed next to Durant for the price Presti was willing to pay.

Re: Roy H.... your thoughts on Jeff Green now?
« Reply #58 on: May 16, 2013, 08:45:59 PM »

Offline CelticConcourse

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Do you guys think I am making this stuff up? Go talk to OKC fans that were saying the same about the guy for 4 years. Sam Presti kept Serge Ibaka after seeing him for 18 months rather than Jeff Green who he had seen for 3 1/2 years. Why? Consistency, aggression, rebounding and interior presence. All things Jeff lacks.

To be honest, I'm pretty sure Presti kept Ibaka because he already had a pretty good SF; it wasn't because he didn't think Green was good enough.
No. Presti was willing to keep Green but Green was expecting way more money for his extension than he was worth. Presti didn't want to/couldn't pay that for someone that didn't give him the complete package. He traded Green for rebounding and inside presence and hoped Ibaka would continue to develop. Ibaka developed leaps and bounds over the next 18 months and it paid off handsomely for OKC.

But Presti didn't trade Green specifically because he had Durant. Green just didn't give that team what it needed next to Durant for the price Presti was willing to pay.

Well, same goes for his tenure in Boston because he'll never play to his maximum if he's stuck behind a HOFer who plays the same position as him. Never.
Jeff Green - Top 5 SF

[Kevin Garnett]
"I've always said J. Green is going to be one of the best players to ever play this game"

Re: Roy H.... your thoughts on Jeff Green now?
« Reply #59 on: May 16, 2013, 11:13:14 PM »

Offline mmmmm

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Do you guys think I am making this stuff up? Go talk to OKC fans that were saying the same about the guy for 4 years. Sam Presti kept Serge Ibaka after seeing him for 18 months rather than Jeff Green who he had seen for 3 1/2 years. Why? Consistency, aggression, rebounding and interior presence. All things Jeff lacks.

To be honest, I'm pretty sure Presti kept Ibaka because he already had a pretty good SF; it wasn't because he didn't think Green was good enough.
No. Presti was willing to keep Green but Green was expecting way more money for his extension than he was worth. Presti didn't want to/couldn't pay that for someone that didn't give him the complete package. He traded Green for rebounding and inside presence and hoped Ibaka would continue to develop. Ibaka developed leaps and bounds over the next 18 months and it paid off handsomely for OKC.

But Presti didn't trade Green specifically because he had Durant. Green just didn't give that team what it needed next to Durant for the price Presti was willing to pay.

This seems pretty dubious reasoning.  Here is my reasoning instead:

Assertion 1: Durant is a better SF than Green.  No controversy there, I hope.

Assertion 2:  Ibaka is a better (or at least more prototypical) PF than Green.

Neither precludes the fact that Green is an excellent, starting caliber SF who can swing to PF.

A more logical interpretation is that Presti wanted to pay for a backup for one of them, not a starting caliber SF coming off the bench (because he knows he has to pay for Westbrook & eventually Ibaka) - no matter how good that bench SF is.

Trading Green to a team that needed (and was willing to pay for) a starting caliber SF down the road was a better realization of Green's value than having him continue to be under-utilized in the OKC system.


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