Idea: Pierce and KG to Mavs for cap room

[Evantime34]

I don't see the benefit in trading Pierce and KG for cap space. There is no one to target with the cap space this year that is worthwhile. I believe we would be better off keeping them this year and letting them retire. We get the cap space anyway when they retire.

Either hold out for good young talent plus picks, or let them retire as celtics.

I think you're misunderstanding the intention. We're not trading pierce so WE have cap room, we're trading him so another team could have cap room, and we get young assets/picks in return for the favor. We're basically selling our cap space for next year.

I thought Jeff's idea was to send Kg and Pierce to Dallas if they struck out on free agents and wanted to make one more run with Dirk.

[indeedproceed]

I don't see the benefit in trading Pierce and KG for cap space. There is no one to target with the cap space this year that is worthwhile. I believe we would be better off keeping them this year and letting them retire. We get the cap space anyway when they retire.

Either hold out for good young talent plus picks, or let them retire as celtics.

I think you're misunderstanding the intention. We're not trading pierce so WE have cap room, we're trading him so another team could have cap room, and we get young assets/picks in return for the favor. We're basically selling our cap space for next year.

I thought Jeff's idea was to send Kg and Pierce to Dallas if they struck out on free agents and wanted to make one more run with Dirk.

Hm..you're right Evantime. Maybe I misunderstood the intention.

[Lucky17]

So, use IP's original idea, but tack back on the extra $10 mil to the Mavs' payroll to keep Pierce.

Puts them at around $40 mil, before they do anything with Beaubois and Collison (combined cap hold of $11.5 mil).

I think the Mavs would prefer to keep Cunningham as a cheap contract. Add $1.2 mil back.

Let's assume they let Roddy B walk, but keep Collison: add $5.8 mil cap hold.

Mavs would stand at $47 mil with a roster of Collison, Cunningham, Pierce, Dirk, B James, and Crowder.

There'd be cap holds for exceptions to figure in as well, I think. I'm not sure there'd be enough space to absorb KG's $12.5 mil outright. Might need to be some additional gymnastics by Dallas to pull it off. Maybe they could use Collison in a S&T for KG, and then hope to somehow land a PG at veteran min level (Billups?)?

PG: Billups
SG: Cunningham
SF: Pierce, Crowder
PF: Dirk
C:  KG, James

Razor-thin roster. Needs a combo guard and at least one other big who can be relied upon for 20 minutes a night.

[arctic 3.0]

Dallas will have max cap space this summer for a run at Dwight Howard which will likely not happen

they can throw money at Josh Smith or some combo of other players, ...or

they could buy Pierce and KG from the Celtics to pair with Dirk for one more run at a title with Dirk

the salaries don't have to match but someone will have to help me out on the math - I think we would have to take someone back (Marion?) but whatever we save could be an immediate cap savings AND we'd have a huge (max?) trade exception

thoughts?

This is as good a plan as I've seen.
We give the old guys one more chance at ac ring and position ourselves well.
We could either take a swan dive next year, develop sully, rehab rondo, play mello and go for the ping pong balls.
Or we go after two $11-12 millplayers. Say big al and josh smith.
A core of rondo, green, smith and big al and bradley would all be under 30, and talented enough to reach the second round. We'd be a hot shot 2 guard from the top tier.
Or at least as good as Indy, Memphis and the bulls.

[Evantime34]

Dallas will have max cap space this summer for a run at Dwight Howard which will likely not happen

they can throw money at Josh Smith or some combo of other players, ...or

they could buy Pierce and KG from the Celtics to pair with Dirk for one more run at a title with Dirk

the salaries don't have to match but someone will have to help me out on the math - I think we would have to take someone back (Marion?) but whatever we save could be an immediate cap savings AND we'd have a huge (max?) trade exception

thoughts?

This is as good a plan as I've seen.
We give the old guys one more chance at ac ring and position ourselves well.
We could either take a swan dive next year, develop sully, rehab rondo, play mello and go for the ping pong balls.
Or we go after two $11-12 millplayers. Say big al and josh smith.
A core of rondo, green, smith and big al and bradley would all be under 30, and talented enough to reach the second round. We'd be a hot shot 2 guard from the top tier.
Or at least as good as Indy, Memphis and the bulls.

Our defense would surely be worse than last year, without KG. Josh Smith and Jefferson would improve our rebounding. Having a player who you can dump the ball into in the post for consistent scoring, would be a welcome change.

The hope would be that Doc could get Jefferson to play better defense and get Smith to stay disciplined on his rotations/shot selection.

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

Dallas will have max cap space this summer for a run at Dwight Howard which will likely not happen

they can throw money at Josh Smith or some combo of other players, ...or

they could buy Pierce and KG from the Celtics to pair with Dirk for one more run at a title with Dirk

the salaries don't have to match but someone will have to help me out on the math - I think we would have to take someone back (Marion?) but whatever we save could be an immediate cap savings AND we'd have a huge (max?) trade exception

thoughts?

This is as good a plan as I've seen.
We give the old guys one more chance at ac ring and position ourselves well.
We could either take a swan dive next year, develop sully, rehab rondo, play mello and go for the ping pong balls.
Or we go after two $11-12 millplayers. Say big al and josh smith.
A core of rondo, green, smith and big al and bradley would all be under 30, and talented enough to reach the second round. We'd be a hot shot 2 guard from the top tier.
Or at least as good as Indy, Memphis and the bulls.

Decent team, but the offensive spacing would be terrible.

[Geo123]

No way would the Mavs do that.  They didn't sign Chandler for that reason.  They want cap space to remake their roster for more of a longer term team.  They won't give that up for KF and Pierce plus I don't think there's any way KG would do that.

KG would go maybe the Rockets, but only because his relationship with McHale.

[hpantazo]

Thanks for the explanations IP and Lucky, TPs for both of you. Selling cap space off to teams desperate for it makes sense when you put it that way.

[Jeff]

thanks guys - probably a long long shot, but interesting discussion

[arctic 3.0]

Dallas will have max cap space this summer for a run at Dwight Howard which will likely not happen

they can throw money at Josh Smith or some combo of other players, ...or

they could buy Pierce and KG from the Celtics to pair with Dirk for one more run at a title with Dirk

the salaries don't have to match but someone will have to help me out on the math - I think we would have to take someone back (Marion?) but whatever we save could be an immediate cap savings AND we'd have a huge (max?) trade exception

thoughts?

This is as good a plan as I've seen.
We give the old guys one more chance at ac ring and position ourselves well.
We could either take a swan dive next year, develop sully, rehab rondo, play mello and go for the ping pong balls.
Or we go after two $11-12 millplayers. Say big al and josh smith.
A core of rondo, green, smith and big al and bradley would all be under 30, and talented enough to reach the second round. We'd be a hot shot 2 guard from the top tier.
Or at least as good as Indy, Memphis and the bulls.

Decent team, but the offensive spacing would be terrible.

al in the post, jeff and smith slashing and mid range. need a few shooters to spread the floor. doable...

[arctic 3.0]

Dallas will have max cap space this summer for a run at Dwight Howard which will likely not happen

they can throw money at Josh Smith or some combo of other players, ...or

they could buy Pierce and KG from the Celtics to pair with Dirk for one more run at a title with Dirk

the salaries don't have to match but someone will have to help me out on the math - I think we would have to take someone back (Marion?) but whatever we save could be an immediate cap savings AND we'd have a huge (max?) trade exception

thoughts?

This is as good a plan as I've seen.
We give the old guys one more chance at ac ring and position ourselves well.
We could either take a swan dive next year, develop sully, rehab rondo, play mello and go for the ping pong balls.
Or we go after two $11-12 millplayers. Say big al and josh smith.
A core of rondo, green, smith and big al and bradley would all be under 30, and talented enough to reach the second round. We'd be a hot shot 2 guard from the top tier.
Or at least as good as Indy, Memphis and the bulls.

Our defense would surely be worse than last year, without KG. Josh Smith and Jefferson would improve our rebounding. Having a player who you can dump the ball into in the post for consistent scoring, would be a welcome change.

The hope would be that Doc could get Jefferson to play better defense and get Smith to stay disciplined on his rotations/shot selection.

you just can't replace KG's D. I don't think there is a player in the league we could acquire by hook or crook who would make up for his absence.
just gotta live with it if he leaves.

[indeedproceed]

So, use IP's original idea, but tack back on the extra $10 mil to the Mavs' payroll to keep Pierce.

Puts them at around $40 mil, before they do anything with Beaubois and Collison (combined cap hold of $11.5 mil).

I think the Mavs would prefer to keep Cunningham as a cheap contract. Add $1.2 mil back.

Let's assume they let Roddy B walk, but keep Collison: add $5.8 mil cap hold.

Mavs would stand at $47 mil with a roster of Collison, Cunningham, Pierce, Dirk, B James, and Crowder.

There'd be cap holds for exceptions to figure in as well, I think. I'm not sure there'd be enough space to absorb KG's $12.5 mil outright. Might need to be some additional gymnastics by Dallas to pull it off. Maybe they could use Collison in a S&T for KG, and then hope to somehow land a PG at veteran min level (Billups?)?

PG: Billups
SG: Cunningham
SF: Pierce, Crowder
PF: Dirk
C:  KG, James

Razor-thin roster. Needs a combo guard and at least one other big who can be relied upon for 20 minutes a night.

Yeah see I think this whole plan (from Dallas's side) is just a non-starter. While its true that if the whole thing doesn't work out, they won't be all that worse for wear because everyone will basically come off the books, but they'll basically be squandering Dirk's final year (years?) on a plan they know pretty certainly won't work out. Relying on KG and Pierce as centerpieces of a team with title aspirations just isn't all that feasible or prudent.

And then, you figure that the 2014's FA class, while bursting with players with ETO's (LeBron, Wade, Bosh, Melo) and some pretty decent RFA's who it looks like will be gangbusters (Paul George, Derrick Favors, Larry Sanders), there really doesn't look like there are guys there who will actually be in the position or inclination to switch teams.

Dallas's best play is to go after CP3 or DWight this offseason, IMO

[Moranis]

So, use IP's original idea, but tack back on the extra $10 mil to the Mavs' payroll to keep Pierce.

Puts them at around $40 mil, before they do anything with Beaubois and Collison (combined cap hold of $11.5 mil).

I think the Mavs would prefer to keep Cunningham as a cheap contract. Add $1.2 mil back.

Let's assume they let Roddy B walk, but keep Collison: add $5.8 mil cap hold.

Mavs would stand at $47 mil with a roster of Collison, Cunningham, Pierce, Dirk, B James, and Crowder.

There'd be cap holds for exceptions to figure in as well, I think. I'm not sure there'd be enough space to absorb KG's $12.5 mil outright. Might need to be some additional gymnastics by Dallas to pull it off. Maybe they could use Collison in a S&T for KG, and then hope to somehow land a PG at veteran min level (Billups?)?

PG: Billups
SG: Cunningham
SF: Pierce, Crowder
PF: Dirk
C:  KG, James

Razor-thin roster. Needs a combo guard and at least one other big who can be relied upon for 20 minutes a night.

Yeah see I think this whole plan (from Dallas's side) is just a non-starter. While its true that if the whole thing doesn't work out, they won't be all that worse for wear because everyone will basically come off the books, but they'll basically be squandering Dirk's final year (years?) on a plan they know pretty certainly won't work out. Relying on KG and Pierce as centerpieces of a team with title aspirations just isn't all that feasible or prudent.

And then, you figure that the 2014's FA class, while bursting with players with ETO's (LeBron, Wade, Bosh, Melo) and some pretty decent RFA's who it looks like will be gangbusters (Paul George, Derrick Favors, Larry Sanders), there really doesn't look like there are guys there who will actually be in the position or inclination to switch teams.

Dallas's best play is to go after CP3 or DWight this offseason, IMO

It is, but Jeff's proposal was if they struck out on the big name guys like Dwight and CP3.  I can't imagine they do what they did this year again, so I think the PP and KG idea makes a lot of sense if they do strike out as PP then expires and KG will likely retire and Dallas can try again in 2014.

[chambers]

I wonder if instead of the cap hold we could take their late lottery pick and Jae Crowder or another young asset.
That way they keep Pierce, KG, Dirk, and still have money to sign the right role players to short term deals too.

[D.o.s.]

I imagine the people who get excited about trading Hall of Famers for cap space are the same people who experience immense tightening of the trousers when reading sabermetrics from excel spreadsheets.

As a fan of the game, I can't get stoked on the idea, even though it "makes sense" from a GM-y point of view.