Poll

Would ya if KG and PP are gone?

Yes
5 (15.6%)
No, but I believe the Celtics should tank
5 (15.6%)
No, and I don't believe the Celtics should tank
22 (68.8%)
Not sure/Don't know
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 32

Author Topic: If KG/PP Retire, Would You Swap Rosters with the Bobcats?  (Read 3324 times)

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Re: If KG/PP Retire, Would You Swap Rosters with the Bobcats?
« Reply #30 on: May 08, 2013, 08:23:08 AM »

Offline BballTim

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You couldn't get a top 5 pick for rondo at this point

The three other top 5 Bobcats draft picks that LarBrd33 wouldn't trade straight up for Rondo? Emeka Okafor, Raymond Felton and Adam Morrison.
There's been a lot of busts picked in the top 5.  There's also been a lot of superstars.

No, I don't think Rondo would net you a top 5 pick at this point.  He's 28 years old, flawed, probably not an all-star anymore... and although 12 mil a year is a reasonable contract for a fringe allstar who can't shoot... most rebuilding teams would opt to take the top 5 pick.  It's a potential superstar and he'll be locked into a rookie deal. 

Now, I think most contenders would prefer to go with an established 28 year old (presuming Rondo ever comes back from his injury)... but most teams picking in the top 5 aren't contenders... they are teams looking to rebuild.

  Again, though, you spent months telling everyone that the Celts wouldn't miss Rondo at all in the playoffs this year, and last year you were telling everyone that his assist totals would take a big hit if he didn't have Ray to pass the ball to. You might not have the slightest idea of what a player like Rondo adds to a team but that doesn't somehow mean he's not one of the best playoff performers in the league whenever he's healthy. He's led a team to the ecf and another team to the finals before he turned 27. The odds on more than a quarter of the players you tout over Rondo having that much postseason success in their entire careers is fairly low.

Re: If KG/PP Retire, Would You Swap Rosters with the Bobcats?
« Reply #31 on: May 08, 2013, 09:46:12 AM »

Offline kozlodoev

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If those two retire, and we fail to land an impact player, we are the Bobcats.
Managing Rilski Sportist to glory at http://www.buzzerbeater.com

Re: If KG/PP Retire, Would You Swap Rosters with the Bobcats?
« Reply #32 on: May 08, 2013, 09:47:53 AM »

Offline bobbyv

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You couldn't get a top 5 pick for rondo at this point

The three other top 5 Bobcats draft picks that LarBrd33 wouldn't trade straight up for Rondo? Emeka Okafor, Raymond Felton and Adam Morrison.
There's been a lot of busts picked in the top 5.  There's also been a lot of superstars.

No, I don't think Rondo would net you a top 5 pick at this point.  He's 28 years old, flawed, probably not an all-star anymore... and although 12 mil a year is a reasonable contract for a fringe allstar who can't shoot... most rebuilding teams would opt to take the top 5 pick.  It's a potential superstar and he'll be locked into a rookie deal. 

Now, I think most contenders would prefer to go with an established 28 year old (presuming Rondo ever comes back from his injury)... but most teams picking in the top 5 aren't contenders... they are teams looking to rebuild.

  Again, though, you spent months telling everyone that the Celts wouldn't miss Rondo at all in the playoffs this year, and last year you were telling everyone that his assist totals would take a big hit if he didn't have Ray to pass the ball to. You might not have the slightest idea of what a player like Rondo adds to a team but that doesn't somehow mean he's not one of the best playoff performers in the league whenever he's healthy. He's led a team to the ecf and another team to the finals before he turned 27. The odds on more than a quarter of the players you tout over Rondo having that much postseason success in their entire careers is fairly low.

He also said we would beat the Knicks in 5  ::)

Re: If KG/PP Retire, Would You Swap Rosters with the Bobcats?
« Reply #33 on: May 08, 2013, 10:33:43 AM »

Offline Boris Badenov

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You couldn't get a top 5 pick for rondo at this point

The three other top 5 Bobcats draft picks that LarBrd33 wouldn't trade straight up for Rondo? Emeka Okafor, Raymond Felton and Adam Morrison.
There's been a lot of busts picked in the top 5.  There's also been a lot of superstars.

No, I don't think Rondo would net you a top 5 pick at this point.  He's 28 years old, flawed, probably not an all-star anymore... and although 12 mil a year is a reasonable contract for a fringe allstar who can't shoot... most rebuilding teams would opt to take the top 5 pick.  It's a potential superstar and he'll be locked into a rookie deal. 

Now, I think most contenders would prefer to go with an established 28 year old (presuming Rondo ever comes back from his injury)... but most teams picking in the top 5 aren't contenders... they are teams looking to rebuild.

  Again, though, you spent months telling everyone that the Celts wouldn't miss Rondo at all in the playoffs this year, and last year you were telling everyone that his assist totals would take a big hit if he didn't have Ray to pass the ball to. You might not have the slightest idea of what a player like Rondo adds to a team but that doesn't somehow mean he's not one of the best playoff performers in the league whenever he's healthy. He's led a team to the ecf and another team to the finals before he turned 27. The odds on more than a quarter of the players you tout over Rondo having that much postseason success in their entire careers is fairly low.

I'll try to mediate here and say it probably depends.

My theory: a team with a top 5 pick would only find Rondo very attractive if they already have a franchise-type talent and are starting to assemble pieces around him. Rondo is a perfect #2 guy, but I can't see acquiring him before you have a #1.

The only teams who fill the bill are NOP and CLE, and CLE is out because they have Irving. (This makes my point, I think - if Cleveland had traded for Rondo earlier, then when they had the #1 they would have been forced to trade Rondo or draft someone else).

Rondo is a perfect fit with Davis IMO. He would bring his championship experience and culture, and be a nice fit playing style-wise. I can easily see NOP surrendering a pick in the 3-5 range of a mediocre draft to get Rondo. They could move Vasquez - he's on an attractive deal and might fetch them back a quality first round pick himself.

Another possibility would be DET. They also have some very good pieces (Monroe and Drummond) who would really benefit from Rondo's presence. Those big guys would develop much better mentally and in their games with Rondo as opposed to many of the names being thrown around in the top 5 this year.

That's about it, though. I think most other lottery teams are still interested less in a sure thing and more in...playing the lottery.

Re: If KG/PP Retire, Would You Swap Rosters with the Bobcats?
« Reply #34 on: May 08, 2013, 10:43:59 AM »

Offline BballTim

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You couldn't get a top 5 pick for rondo at this point

The three other top 5 Bobcats draft picks that LarBrd33 wouldn't trade straight up for Rondo? Emeka Okafor, Raymond Felton and Adam Morrison.
There's been a lot of busts picked in the top 5.  There's also been a lot of superstars.

No, I don't think Rondo would net you a top 5 pick at this point.  He's 28 years old, flawed, probably not an all-star anymore... and although 12 mil a year is a reasonable contract for a fringe allstar who can't shoot... most rebuilding teams would opt to take the top 5 pick.  It's a potential superstar and he'll be locked into a rookie deal. 

Now, I think most contenders would prefer to go with an established 28 year old (presuming Rondo ever comes back from his injury)... but most teams picking in the top 5 aren't contenders... they are teams looking to rebuild.

  Again, though, you spent months telling everyone that the Celts wouldn't miss Rondo at all in the playoffs this year, and last year you were telling everyone that his assist totals would take a big hit if he didn't have Ray to pass the ball to. You might not have the slightest idea of what a player like Rondo adds to a team but that doesn't somehow mean he's not one of the best playoff performers in the league whenever he's healthy. He's led a team to the ecf and another team to the finals before he turned 27. The odds on more than a quarter of the players you tout over Rondo having that much postseason success in their entire careers is fairly low.

I'll try to mediate here and say it probably depends.

My theory: a team with a top 5 pick would only find Rondo very attractive if they already have a franchise-type talent and are starting to assemble pieces around him. Rondo is a perfect #2 guy, but I can't see acquiring him before you have a #1.

The only teams who fill the bill are NOP and CLE, and CLE is out because they have Irving. (This makes my point, I think - if Cleveland had traded for Rondo earlier, then when they had the #1 they would have been forced to trade Rondo or draft someone else).

Rondo is a perfect fit with Davis IMO. He would bring his championship experience and culture, and be a nice fit playing style-wise. I can easily see NOP surrendering a pick in the 3-5 range of a mediocre draft to get Rondo. They could move Vasquez - he's on an attractive deal and might fetch them back a quality first round pick himself.

Another possibility would be DET. They also have some very good pieces (Monroe and Drummond) who would really benefit from Rondo's presence. Those big guys would develop much better mentally and in their games with Rondo as opposed to many of the names being thrown around in the top 5 this year.

That's about it, though. I think most other lottery teams are still interested less in a sure thing and more in...playing the lottery.

  I try not to get too involved in the trade value discussions (although sometimes I do) because, let's face it, people here don't have much of an idea about whether what they say is even slightly accurate. I'm just say that characterizing Rondo as a "flawed, fringe all-star who can't shoot" doesn't magically erase what he's been able to accomplish on the court during his career. Is he flawed? Yes. Is he a great shooter? No. Can he dominate playoff games and lead his team deep in the playoffs? Clearly, as he's done so in the recent past.

Re: If KG/PP Retire, Would You Swap Rosters with the Bobcats?
« Reply #35 on: May 08, 2013, 10:59:29 AM »

Offline slamtheking

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why?  even without KG and PP next year, the talent on the C's could still get into the playoffs in the East with Rondo and Sully.  Bobcats would be lucky to make the NCAA tournament with that roster.

Re: If KG/PP Retire, Would You Swap Rosters with the Bobcats?
« Reply #36 on: May 08, 2013, 11:02:43 AM »

Offline CoachBo

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An interesting thread discussion about a roster swap here.

I agree with Roy. A good GM would have an easier time rebuilding the Bobcats than what's going to be left of the Celtics.

And LB, what are you thinking?

Of course Danny can land a top 5 pick for Rondo. Even the top pick. More than one. ;D


Re: If KG/PP Retire, Would You Swap Rosters with the Bobcats?
« Reply #37 on: May 08, 2013, 11:11:06 AM »

Offline Chris

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Just to be clear, Pierce has gone on record to say he is playing next year...

Re: If KG/PP Retire, Would You Swap Rosters with the Bobcats?
« Reply #38 on: May 08, 2013, 11:26:00 AM »

Offline BballTim

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An interesting thread discussion about a roster swap here.

I agree with Roy. A good GM would have an easier time rebuilding the Bobcats than what's going to be left of the Celtics.

And LB, what are you thinking?

Of course Danny can land a top 5 pick for Rondo. Even the top pick. More than one. ;D

  Probably not since, as you were frequently saying this year, the team clearly proved that they don't need him on the offense, which is an absolute *joy* to watch when he's not playing.

Re: If KG/PP Retire, Would You Swap Rosters with the Bobcats?
« Reply #39 on: May 08, 2013, 11:26:18 AM »

Offline slamtheking

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but if I had to put money on one of these teams winning a title in 2018... I'd put money on the Bobcats.
I'd take that bet.  No team run by Michael Jordan will win a title.   great player, horrible executive.

Re: If KG/PP Retire, Would You Swap Rosters with the Bobcats?
« Reply #40 on: May 08, 2013, 11:29:03 AM »

Offline StartOrien

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but if I had to put money on one of these teams winning a title in 2018... I'd put money on the Bobcats.
I'd take that bet.  No team run by Michael Jordan will win a title.   great player, horrible executive.

Oh god ya, I'd make that bet a hundred times over and give you odds. The Bobcats are going NOWHERE.

Re: If KG/PP Retire, Would You Swap Rosters with the Bobcats?
« Reply #41 on: May 08, 2013, 11:29:34 AM »

Offline slamtheking

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An interesting thread discussion about a roster swap here.

I agree with Roy. A good GM would have an easier time rebuilding the Bobcats than what's going to be left of the Celtics.

And LB, what are you thinking?

Of course Danny can land a top 5 pick for Rondo. Even the top pick. More than one. ;D

  Probably not since, as you were frequently saying this year, the team clearly proved that they don't need him on the offense, which is an absolute *joy* to watch when he's not playing.
TP for the zing. 

Re: If KG/PP Retire, Would You Swap Rosters with the Bobcats?
« Reply #42 on: May 08, 2013, 03:53:47 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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You couldn't get a top 5 pick for rondo at this point

The three other top 5 Bobcats draft picks that LarBrd33 wouldn't trade straight up for Rondo? Emeka Okafor, Raymond Felton and Adam Morrison.
There's been a lot of busts picked in the top 5.  There's also been a lot of superstars.

No, I don't think Rondo would net you a top 5 pick at this point.  He's 28 years old, flawed, probably not an all-star anymore... and although 12 mil a year is a reasonable contract for a fringe allstar who can't shoot... most rebuilding teams would opt to take the top 5 pick.  It's a potential superstar and he'll be locked into a rookie deal. 

Now, I think most contenders would prefer to go with an established 28 year old (presuming Rondo ever comes back from his injury)... but most teams picking in the top 5 aren't contenders... they are teams looking to rebuild.

  Again, though, you spent months telling everyone that the Celts wouldn't miss Rondo at all in the playoffs this year,

WE didn't miss Rondo.  We were getting our butts handed to us by the Knicks either way if KG and Pierce we're playing vintage ball. 

The freedom Jeff Green had (and the impact he made as a result) negated the loss of ball-dominating Rondo in the playoffs.  I love your optimism about Boston's chances with Rondo's leadership... but let's agree to disagree on that.  Neither of us is convincing the other.  Fwiw, I hope I'm wrong and you're right... but I don't see a Rondo-lead team (without KG and PIerce) even making the playoffs. 

Re: If KG/PP Retire, Would You Swap Rosters with the Bobcats?
« Reply #43 on: May 08, 2013, 03:58:29 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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but if I had to put money on one of these teams winning a title in 2018... I'd put money on the Bobcats.
I'd take that bet.  No team run by Michael Jordan will win a title.   great player, horrible executive.

Oh god ya, I'd make that bet a hundred times over and give you odds. The Bobcats are going NOWHERE.
They are a poorly managed team.  A good GM would have a far easier time turning the Bobcats into a contender than this Boston team. 

Even poorly-managed, their odds of landing a franchise player is far greater than us, because we're set up to be perpetually mediocre for several years.

So yes, I'd gladly trade our situation for the Bobcats situation... and I'm sure a savvy GM like Danny Ainge would prefer that as well.  If Ainge had that roster/picks it would mean one more year of suffering and then Ainge would have a clear path to build a contender using boatloads of premium assets and cap space.

Re: If KG/PP Retire, Would You Swap Rosters with the Bobcats?
« Reply #44 on: May 08, 2013, 04:00:59 PM »

Offline StartOrien

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but if I had to put money on one of these teams winning a title in 2018... I'd put money on the Bobcats.
I'd take that bet.  No team run by Michael Jordan will win a title.   great player, horrible executive.

Oh god ya, I'd make that bet a hundred times over and give you odds. The Bobcats are going NOWHERE.
They are a poorly managed team.  A good GM would have a far easier time turning the Bobcats into a contender than this Boston team. 

Even poorly-managed, their odds of landing a franchise player is far greater than us, because we're set up to be perpetually mediocre for several years.

So yes, I'd gladly trade our situation for the Bobcats situation.  One more year of suffering and then Danny Ainge would have a clear path to build a contender using boatloads of premium assets and cap space.

HOW? What moves are you making to improve that roster? How are you attracting free agents to that market to others? People are falling over themselves to play alongside Bismack Biyombo while 5,000 people watch your game?

 

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