Tiger penalized for bad drop. Should he have withdrawn.

[Fan from VT]

Take this with a grain of salt, as I am not a golfer nor am I really a golf watcher.

But, I generally dislike "nostalgic" rules, and the whole "signing your own score card" thing seems to be completely irrelevant for this level of tournament in this day and age. As someone else pointed out, it would be like in the NBA having to keep track of your own fouls, and getting suspended from a playoff series for submitting 4 instead of 5 on your "foul card," but if that 5th foul was assessed after a complicated instant replay review.

There are so many cameras, and plenty of funding to have an official for each hole. Just seems irrelevant, nostalgic, and a way to interfere with determining who the best golfers are.

[CelticConcourse]

Take this with a grain of salt, as I am not a golfer nor am I really a golf watcher.

But, I generally dislike "nostalgic" rules, and the whole "signing your own score card" thing seems to be completely irrelevant for this level of tournament in this day and age. As someone else pointed out, it would be like in the NBA having to keep track of your own fouls, and getting suspended from a playoff series for submitting 4 instead of 5 on your "foul card," but if that 5th foul was assessed after a complicated instant replay review.

There are so many cameras, and plenty of funding to have an official for each hole. Just seems irrelevant, nostalgic, and a way to interfere with determining who the best golfers are.

Thanks for explaining it this way!

[Finkelskyhook]

Take this with a grain of salt, as I am not a golfer nor am I really a golf watcher.

But, I generally dislike "nostalgic" rules, and the whole "signing your own score card" thing seems to be completely irrelevant for this level of tournament in this day and age. As someone else pointed out, it would be like in the NBA having to keep track of your own fouls, and getting suspended from a playoff series for submitting 4 instead of 5 on your "foul card," but if that 5th foul was assessed after a complicated instant replay review.

There are so many cameras, and plenty of funding to have an official for each hole. Just seems irrelevant, nostalgic, and a way to interfere with determining who the best golfers are.

Thanks for explaining it this way!

If you're into nostalgic rules....How do you watch today's NBA?

[Moranis]

I'm not a huge golf follower, but this isn't a big deal to me. He was appropriately penalized for the bad drop. Same thing would have happened to any other golfer. Should he have voluntarily withdrawn? No. This is pro sports, not a parlour game.

Its pro sports but its golf. A completely different game that has since its inception, had self government of the rules by the players. Signing a wrong scorecard was grounds for disqualification for over 100 years. Only television and some dolt calling in and getting a player disqualified changed that rule.

Tiger admitted to breaking the rule and he signed the wrong scorecard. The situation had nothing to do with a fan calling in and reporting the mistake. Therefore, in my opinion, new rule or not, I think Tiger probably should have withdrawn. Players have penalized themselves(withdrawing from a tourney, penalizing shots) for lesser infractions than Tiger.

But, being a game of self government and rules, the new rule allows for Tiger to change his card so he's doing everything within the rules. Still think he should have withdrawn though. And BTW, I am a huge Tiger fan, through the thick and thin so this isn't Tiger hating.

The PGA told him before he signed his card that his drop was correct.  Therefore at the time he signed the scorecard it was correct.  It was only after he did an interview with Tom Verducci that it came out that his drop was incorrect and he was thus correctly penalized 2 strokes for the incorrect drop.

[nickagneta]

So want to know how golf is a game of inches.

If Tiger's shot at 15 on Friday is 1 inch to the left or right, the ball lands near the hole and he probably gets a 4. Instead he gets an 8. Instead of being in the playoff, he's tied for fourth.

Of course I am sure that each guy at the top of the leaderboard has the same, if I just hit that one shot a bit_________(fill in the blank) then I could have won. But seldom is it so obvious.

[Cman]

What would the penalty have been if a golfer intentionally chose to shoot from that spot?  Do the rules call for a specific penalty?

He would have received the same two shot penalty.  The ruling was correct and fair.

Okay.  Then yeah, sounds good to me.  If they wanted to tack on a stroke for signing an incorrect scorecard, I think that would have been fine, too.  Disqualification seems draconian.

Yes, that's my feeling as well. He signed an incorrect scorecard, but it was incorrect after the fact. When he signed it he thought it was correct.

[BballTim]

I'm not a huge golf follower, but this isn't a big deal to me. He was appropriately penalized for the bad drop. Same thing would have happened to any other golfer. Should he have voluntarily withdrawn? No. This is pro sports, not a parlour game.

Its pro sports but its golf. A completely different game that has since its inception, had self government of the rules by the players. Signing a wrong scorecard was grounds for disqualification for over 100 years. Only television and some dolt calling in and getting a player disqualified changed that rule.

Tiger admitted to breaking the rule and he signed the wrong scorecard. The situation had nothing to do with a fan calling in and reporting the mistake. Therefore, in my opinion, new rule or not, I think Tiger probably should have withdrawn. Players have penalized themselves(withdrawing from a tourney, penalizing shots) for lesser infractions than Tiger.

But, being a game of self government and rules, the new rule allows for Tiger to change his card so he's doing everything within the rules. Still think he should have withdrawn though. And BTW, I am a huge Tiger fan, through the thick and thin so this isn't Tiger hating.

The PGA told him before he signed his card that his drop was correct.  Therefore at the time he signed the scorecard it was correct.  It was only after he did an interview with Tom Verducci that it came out that his drop was incorrect and he was thus correctly penalized 2 strokes for the incorrect drop.

  The scorecard was never correct. He thought it was correct when he signed it but that doesn't have any bearing on the situation.

[nickagneta]

I'm not a huge golf follower, but this isn't a big deal to me. He was appropriately penalized for the bad drop. Same thing would have happened to any other golfer. Should he have voluntarily withdrawn? No. This is pro sports, not a parlour game.

Its pro sports but its golf. A completely different game that has since its inception, had self government of the rules by the players. Signing a wrong scorecard was grounds for disqualification for over 100 years. Only television and some dolt calling in and getting a player disqualified changed that rule.

Tiger admitted to breaking the rule and he signed the wrong scorecard. The situation had nothing to do with a fan calling in and reporting the mistake. Therefore, in my opinion, new rule or not, I think Tiger probably should have withdrawn. Players have penalized themselves(withdrawing from a tourney, penalizing shots) for lesser infractions than Tiger.

But, being a game of self government and rules, the new rule allows for Tiger to change his card so he's doing everything within the rules. Still think he should have withdrawn though. And BTW, I am a huge Tiger fan, through the thick and thin so this isn't Tiger hating.

The PGA told him before he signed his card that his drop was correct.  Therefore at the time he signed the scorecard it was correct.  It was only after he did an interview with Tom Verducci that it came out that his drop was incorrect and he was thus correctly penalized 2 strokes for the incorrect drop.

  The scorecard was never correct. He thought it was correct when he signed it but that doesn't have any bearing on the situation.

In the world of golf, signing  scorecard and thinking it is correct doesn't matter. If it is wrong, its wrong. Doesn't matter what you think.

[angryguy77]

whats the big deal? It looked like a "crab putt" to me.

[Moranis]

I'm not a huge golf follower, but this isn't a big deal to me. He was appropriately penalized for the bad drop. Same thing would have happened to any other golfer. Should he have voluntarily withdrawn? No. This is pro sports, not a parlour game.

Its pro sports but its golf. A completely different game that has since its inception, had self government of the rules by the players. Signing a wrong scorecard was grounds for disqualification for over 100 years. Only television and some dolt calling in and getting a player disqualified changed that rule.

Tiger admitted to breaking the rule and he signed the wrong scorecard. The situation had nothing to do with a fan calling in and reporting the mistake. Therefore, in my opinion, new rule or not, I think Tiger probably should have withdrawn. Players have penalized themselves(withdrawing from a tourney, penalizing shots) for lesser infractions than Tiger.

But, being a game of self government and rules, the new rule allows for Tiger to change his card so he's doing everything within the rules. Still think he should have withdrawn though. And BTW, I am a huge Tiger fan, through the thick and thin so this isn't Tiger hating.

The PGA told him before he signed his card that his drop was correct.  Therefore at the time he signed the scorecard it was correct.  It was only after he did an interview with Tom Verducci that it came out that his drop was incorrect and he was thus correctly penalized 2 strokes for the incorrect drop.

  The scorecard was never correct. He thought it was correct when he signed it but that doesn't have any bearing on the situation.

In the world of golf, signing  scorecard and thinking it is correct doesn't matter. If it is wrong, its wrong. Doesn't matter what you think.

the PGA told him it was correct.  You know the people that verify rules and make sure everything is proper.  You know the guys that penalized the 14 year old chinese kid for playing too slow.  Those guys.  They said his drop was proper and told Tiger it was during the 18th hole.  Thus, when Tiger signed his card it was correct as having been determined by the sports governing body.  It was only after the fact and after a billion different angles and shots, and as confirmed by Tiger in his Verducci interview did the sports governing body go back and say, our bad that call was wrong, lets fix your score.  The only difference between that and the apology letter the NFL sends to teams on blown calls, was this one could be corrected because there were still rounds to be played.

[saltlover]

Of course, now there are photos that indicate Tiger may have dropped in the correct spot after all.  Rather than debating whether or not he should have been DQ'd, the debate really needs to change to putting an official with each group.  We shouldn't have video evidence called in by viewers looking at multiple camera angles be decisive -- it should be officials on the course.

[Cman]

I'm not a huge golf follower, but this isn't a big deal to me. He was appropriately penalized for the bad drop. Same thing would have happened to any other golfer. Should he have voluntarily withdrawn? No. This is pro sports, not a parlour game.

Its pro sports but its golf. A completely different game that has since its inception, had self government of the rules by the players. Signing a wrong scorecard was grounds for disqualification for over 100 years. Only television and some dolt calling in and getting a player disqualified changed that rule.

Tiger admitted to breaking the rule and he signed the wrong scorecard. The situation had nothing to do with a fan calling in and reporting the mistake. Therefore, in my opinion, new rule or not, I think Tiger probably should have withdrawn. Players have penalized themselves(withdrawing from a tourney, penalizing shots) for lesser infractions than Tiger.

But, being a game of self government and rules, the new rule allows for Tiger to change his card so he's doing everything within the rules. Still think he should have withdrawn though. And BTW, I am a huge Tiger fan, through the thick and thin so this isn't Tiger hating.

The PGA told him before he signed his card that his drop was correct.  Therefore at the time he signed the scorecard it was correct.  It was only after he did an interview with Tom Verducci that it came out that his drop was incorrect and he was thus correctly penalized 2 strokes for the incorrect drop.

  The scorecard was never correct. He thought it was correct when he signed it but that doesn't have any bearing on the situation.

In the world of golf, signing  scorecard and thinking it is correct doesn't matter. If it is wrong, its wrong. Doesn't matter what you think.

In the old days, you'd be DQ-ed for signing an incorrect scorecard. As of the rule change two years ago, you are no longer DQ-ed. So long as this rule is evenly applied to all golfers (and I haven't heard otherwise), then I don't get all the hubbub.

I can see one might not like the new rule, but if that's the case then this thread is a little late, unless I missed a thread expressing similar outrage about the rule change two years ago.

[BballTim]

I'm not a huge golf follower, but this isn't a big deal to me. He was appropriately penalized for the bad drop. Same thing would have happened to any other golfer. Should he have voluntarily withdrawn? No. This is pro sports, not a parlour game.

Its pro sports but its golf. A completely different game that has since its inception, had self government of the rules by the players. Signing a wrong scorecard was grounds for disqualification for over 100 years. Only television and some dolt calling in and getting a player disqualified changed that rule.

Tiger admitted to breaking the rule and he signed the wrong scorecard. The situation had nothing to do with a fan calling in and reporting the mistake. Therefore, in my opinion, new rule or not, I think Tiger probably should have withdrawn. Players have penalized themselves(withdrawing from a tourney, penalizing shots) for lesser infractions than Tiger.

But, being a game of self government and rules, the new rule allows for Tiger to change his card so he's doing everything within the rules. Still think he should have withdrawn though. And BTW, I am a huge Tiger fan, through the thick and thin so this isn't Tiger hating.

The PGA told him before he signed his card that his drop was correct.  Therefore at the time he signed the scorecard it was correct.  It was only after he did an interview with Tom Verducci that it came out that his drop was incorrect and he was thus correctly penalized 2 strokes for the incorrect drop.

  The scorecard was never correct. He thought it was correct when he signed it but that doesn't have any bearing on the situation.

In the world of golf, signing  scorecard and thinking it is correct doesn't matter. If it is wrong, its wrong. Doesn't matter what you think.

the PGA told him it was correct.  You know the people that verify rules and make sure everything is proper.  You know the guys that penalized the 14 year old chinese kid for playing too slow.  Those guys.  They said his drop was proper and told Tiger it was during the 18th hole.  Thus, when Tiger signed his card it was correct as having been determined by the sports governing body.

  This is the only article I saw that commented on the sequence of events, let me know if it's wrong:

http://jacksonville.com/sports/golf/2013-04-13/story/chronology-tiger-woods-rules-violation

6:15 p.m. -- Woods finishes with a 71 and is 3-under-par for the tournament, three shots behind Jason Day. No one from the committee informs him of the review of his drop. Ridley says later, "Because it was a non-violation, I was not going to go down and tell Tiger that we had considered this."

  It doesn't look like they told him his drop was proper, and it doesn't look like he asked if the drop was proper. He meant to drop the ball a few yards from his initial shot, which is a rules violation, and signed an incorrect scorecard as a result of that.

[BballTim]

Of course, now there are photos that indicate Tiger may have dropped in the correct spot after all.  Rather than debating whether or not he should have been DQ'd, the debate really needs to change to putting an official with each group.  We shouldn't have video evidence called in by viewers looking at multiple camera angles be decisive -- it should be officials on the course.

  It (apparently) generally is officials on the course but Augusta limits the number of people inside the ropes so the pga (or usga or whoever) has fewer officials on hand than normal.

[nickagneta]

Officials don't go out with every group. Heck there aren't usually officials at every hole, no matter the tourney. Most tourneys have somewhere in the order of 35-50 pairings to start a tourney. The Masters had 31 pairings even over the weekend.

Given the amount of tourneys and their locations over the world, trying to get officials at every hole as a regular thing in the professional world of golf would be nearly impossible and very expensive. And again, it goes against the tradition of fundamentals of the sport.

To me, adding officials to officiate professional golfers would be akin to changing basketball by getting rid of dribbling. It goes to changing the game.