Author Topic: Trade Idea - Involves Eric Gordon  (Read 4337 times)

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Re: Trade Idea - Involves Eric Gordon
« Reply #45 on: April 09, 2013, 05:02:50 PM »

Offline Eddie20

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From your numbers he's missed twice as many games as he played, and I think he missed quite a few games with LA as well. That's a big reason to want move that contract.


BballTim, I wouldn't do that trade, but let's not think that a Gordon for Rondo deal, if both were 100% healthy, is utterly ridiculous.

A few things...

Coach K actually chose Gordon over Rondo on Team USA in 2010.

The Hornets could've had a Rondo based package for CP3, but instead chose a package centered around Gordon.

You constantly bring up that Rondo led us to a title, but there were plenty of players that could've replaced Rondo and we very likely still win the title. I think we still win that year with a Cassell/House 1-2 punch. Rondo was blessed with playing for Doc and alongside the Big 3.

You also like to say that the reason we were struggling as a team was because we had players that were struggling individually. Isn't Rondo, as a pass-first superstar pg, supposed to make their job easier? Isn't the very definition of a superstar to make those players around him better?

I think 2010 Eric Gordon was close in value to 2010 Rondo - the CP trade is evidence of that, as is the contract he received.

But since then Rondo had two years (2011 and 2012) in which was an All-Star, was named to the All-Defense or All-NBA teams, and even received MVP votes. He also put together three consecutive impressive postseasons.

In that same time Gordon has played only a little more than a half season of basketball in which he was at an All-Star level. And, he hasn't shown that he has recovered fully from the ACL tear. (Neither has Rondo of course).

I'm not totally against the Celts moving Rondo, but I'd want it to happen as part of a total rebuild more than a lateral move for the present. And as I've said above, I think Gordon carries too much downside risk with that contract.

I agree with you. But the reason why Rondo is probably valued higher around the league is Gordon's inability to remain healthy and not a disparity in talent.

And I think that Rondo is extremely overrated defensively, while Gordon is extremely underrated on that end.

Re: Trade Idea - Involves Eric Gordon
« Reply #46 on: April 09, 2013, 05:53:39 PM »

Online BballTim

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From your numbers he's missed twice as many games as he played, and I think he missed quite a few games with LA as well. That's a big reason to want move that contract.


BballTim, I wouldn't do that trade, but let's not think that a Gordon for Rondo deal, if both were 100% healthy, is utterly ridiculous.

A few things...

Coach K actually chose Gordon over Rondo on Team USA in 2010.

The Hornets could've had a Rondo based package for CP3, but instead chose a package centered around Gordon.

You constantly bring up that Rondo led us to a title, but there were plenty of players that could've replaced Rondo and we very likely still win the title. I think we still win that year with a Cassell/House 1-2 punch. Rondo was blessed with playing for Doc and alongside the Big 3.

You also like to say that the reason we were struggling as a team was because we had players that were struggling individually. Isn't Rondo, as a pass-first superstar pg, supposed to make their job easier? Isn't the very definition of a superstar to make those players around him better?

  First of all I've never said that Rondo led us to a title, I've said that Rondo's led the team to deep playoff runs. Secondly it is Rondo's job to make the other player's job easier and he's got a long track record of doing just that. However that doesn't magically make players healthier or make them come back from injuries faster or make the bigs play good defense when KG's on the bench. Those were our major problems. I realize that many here were blaming all of those things on Rondo but I disagree with that stance.

Re: Trade Idea - Involves Eric Gordon
« Reply #47 on: April 09, 2013, 06:27:07 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Rondo has helped us in a playoff series with his play.   Eric Gordon has never made or help his team make the playoffs.
This trade is at best a lateral move and at worse we are getting a worse player. 

A shooting guard that shoots .40% from the field will shoot you out of more games than win them.    He did shoot .40% from the field today.   There is a reason his teams never make the post season.  Over 14 Shot attempts per game via field goal range and over   4.7 from three point land.   That is 18.7 shot attempts per game for 17 PPG.   They averaged 91.9 possessions per game last year and he took  20% of their shots.   That is not Celtic Basketball.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2013, 06:42:51 PM by Celtics4ever »

Re: Trade Idea - Involves Eric Gordon
« Reply #48 on: April 09, 2013, 06:56:54 PM »

Offline Eddie20

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A shooting guard that shoots .40% from the field will shoot you out of more games than win them.    He did shoot .40% from the field today.   There is a reason his teams never make the post season.  Over 14 Shot attempts per game via field goal range and over   4.7 from three point land.   That is 18.7 shot attempts per game for 17 PPG.   They averaged 91.9 possessions per game last year and he took  20% of their shots.   That is not Celtic Basketball.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/4469/career;_ylt=AuHDdGuJ.gK84OcPCiklbXfSPaB4

I think you should look at his career sample size and not pass judgement based on his injury riddled year.

Would I do the trade, no. But only because of Gordon's injury woes. However, his shooting/scoring ability is great to put alongside Bradley and would really make me think about it. Scoring 22 ppg in the NBA at 22 years old is a pretty lofty feat.

Re: Trade Idea - Involves Eric Gordon
« Reply #49 on: April 09, 2013, 07:25:21 PM »

Online BballTim

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I think you should look at his career sample size and not pass judgement based on his injury riddled year.

  Yeah, ignoring an entire career and only focusing on part of one season is pretty ridiculous, isn't it?

Re: Trade Idea - Involves Eric Gordon
« Reply #50 on: April 09, 2013, 07:30:45 PM »

Offline CelticConcourse

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I think you should look at his career sample size and not pass judgement based on his injury riddled year.

Should we do sign Tracy McGrady for 6-mil now? His stats are real good, I'm surprised no one has signed him... we can get a real steal!
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Re: Trade Idea - Involves Eric Gordon
« Reply #51 on: April 09, 2013, 07:31:09 PM »

Offline Eddie20

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I think you should look at his career sample size and not pass judgement based on his injury riddled year.

  Yeah, ignoring an entire career and only focusing on part of one season is pretty ridiculous, isn't it?

It is. Just like focusing on certain playoff performances, but ignoring a Finals series where because of one players lack of shooting ability it allowed the other team to have a defender play off the said player and help everywhere else.

Re: Trade Idea - Involves Eric Gordon
« Reply #52 on: April 09, 2013, 07:33:42 PM »

Offline Eddie20

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I think you should look at his career sample size and not pass judgement based on his injury riddled year.

Should we do sign Tracy McGrady for 6-mil now? His stats are real good, I'm surprised no one has signed him... we can get a real steal!

Good comparison. When does Gordon turn 33?

Re: Trade Idea - Involves Eric Gordon
« Reply #53 on: April 09, 2013, 07:39:11 PM »

Offline connor

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This trade is at best a lateral move and at worse we are getting a worse player. 
I think you and everyone else calling this a ridiculous trade suggestion is forgetting about a key player in this deal: Greivis Vasquez.

In his first full year as the starting PG he is averaging 14ppg, 9 assists and 4-5 rebounds a game, which is very similar to the stat lines Rondo has posted the last 3 years which are around 12/11/5.  And to top it off he can actually knock down his free throws at 80% from the line.

Now I'm not trying to say that Vasquez is at Rondo's level, but to suggest that this deal boils down to just Rondo for Gordon is a major mischaracterization.

Vasquez is an excellent passer, decent shooter (solid from 3), a great slasher to the basket and he can finish at the rim and do damage at the foul line. He doesn't have any amazing physical talent but he is big for a PG at 6'6 and uses his size well. He is solid defensively and like Rondo doesn't mind doing some dirty work on the board especially with his size.

Gordon's scoring potential is a major improvement over what we are currently getting from our SGs and would allow Bradley to go back to being a tempo changing defensive force off the bench. Vasquez is admittedly a step down from Rondo and doesn't have that same ability to take over a game but he can do a lot of the same things on a consistent basis.

I still wouldn't make the deal, but its not as ridiculous as people are making it out to be.

Re: Trade Idea - Involves Eric Gordon
« Reply #54 on: April 09, 2013, 08:33:10 PM »

Offline Boris Badenov

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This trade is at best a lateral move and at worse we are getting a worse player. 
I think you and everyone else calling this a ridiculous trade suggestion is forgetting about a key player in this deal: Greivis Vasquez.

In his first full year as the starting PG he is averaging 14ppg, 9 assists and 4-5 rebounds a game, which is very similar to the stat lines Rondo has posted the last 3 years which are around 12/11/5.  And to top it off he can actually knock down his free throws at 80% from the line.

Now I'm not trying to say that Vasquez is at Rondo's level, but to suggest that this deal boils down to just Rondo for Gordon is a major mischaracterization.

Vasquez is an excellent passer, decent shooter (solid from 3), a great slasher to the basket and he can finish at the rim and do damage at the foul line. He doesn't have any amazing physical talent but he is big for a PG at 6'6 and uses his size well. He is solid defensively and like Rondo doesn't mind doing some dirty work on the board especially with his size.

Gordon's scoring potential is a major improvement over what we are currently getting from our SGs and would allow Bradley to go back to being a tempo changing defensive force off the bench. Vasquez is admittedly a step down from Rondo and doesn't have that same ability to take over a game but he can do a lot of the same things on a consistent basis.

I still wouldn't make the deal, but its not as ridiculous as people are making it out to be.

I find Vasquez to be by far the more appealing player in the trade. I would actually think it's more likely that NOH says no because of him rather than Gordon. (Though I think ultimately they would be drooling at the prospect of Rondo and Davis paired together for the next several years.)

To me though, even Vasquez doesn't offset the possibility that we end up with a 15 ppg, 40% shooter owed $44 million over the next three years, when we are giving up our only real trade asset.

But I agree, Vasquez is a heck of a bargain right now. And he's a better fit IMO with Bradley than Rondo is, because he's a decent shooter from 3 and you could even cross-match him onto weaker SGs because of his size, leaving Bradley to pester the opposing PG.

Re: Trade Idea - Involves Eric Gordon
« Reply #55 on: April 09, 2013, 08:40:50 PM »

Online BballTim

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I think you should look at his career sample size and not pass judgement based on his injury riddled year.

  Yeah, ignoring an entire career and only focusing on part of one season is pretty ridiculous, isn't it?

It is.

  At least you're willing to admit it.

  Just like focusing on certain playoff performances, but ignoring a Finals series where because of one players lack of shooting ability it allowed the other team to have a defender play off the said player and help everywhere else.

  I don't ignore it at all. I just think his play in the finals in 2010 was affected by the injury he picked up during the Orlando series. Not that it's likely you'd have noticed anything like that.

Re: Trade Idea - Involves Eric Gordon
« Reply #56 on: April 09, 2013, 09:38:03 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Yeah, ignoring an entire career and only focusing on part of one season is pretty ridiculous, isn't it?

Only his FG %, was from this year.  The rest of his numbers are career numbers folks.  Not that I would expect you to notice that.

He  never lead his team to anything.

Re: Trade Idea - Involves Eric Gordon
« Reply #57 on: April 11, 2013, 12:33:28 AM »

Offline Celtics18

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I think you should look at his career sample size and not pass judgement based on his injury riddled year.

Should we do sign Tracy McGrady for 6-mil now? His stats are real good, I'm surprised no one has signed him... we can get a real steal!

Good comparison. When does Gordon turn 33?

It seems like any day now.

Re: Trade Idea - Involves Eric Gordon
« Reply #58 on: April 11, 2013, 01:04:49 PM »

Offline connor

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Maybe Boston could alter the NO trade and also get back Robin Lopez.  Maybe Melo and a future 1st is enough for him to be included though it probably would take Sullinger and I may be ok with that as Robin Lopez is a very strong back-up center who could also play with KG at times. 

So Rondo, Lee, Sullinger, Protected 1st for Vasquez, Gordon, Lopez.
If we could get Lopez back, then I probably would strongly consider it (depends on how things play out this offseason with KG and PP). But I'm not giving up Sully or Bradley, maybe its asking for too much, but I think we have the luxury of being picky when we are offering a proven asset like Rondo.

Maybe Rondo, Lee, Melo and we draft and trade Kelly Olynyk (or another big). Swapping PG/SGs and Cs.

Garnett/Lopez/Shav
Sully/Bass
Pierce/Green
Gordon/Terry/Crawford
Vasquez/Bradley/Williams

Thats a solid lineup with some really good depth. We'd be really competitive and there is a lot of youth behind KG, PP and Terry so when they retire we can bring in complementary FAs and not drop off the face of the earth. The Hornets probably aren't willing to give up that much talent for basically just Rondo, but I'm not taking on a risky max guy like Gordon without some other strong pieces being included.

Re: Trade Idea - Involves Eric Gordon
« Reply #59 on: April 11, 2013, 01:52:44 PM »

Offline Moranis

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Maybe Boston could alter the NO trade and also get back Robin Lopez.  Maybe Melo and a future 1st is enough for him to be included though it probably would take Sullinger and I may be ok with that as Robin Lopez is a very strong back-up center who could also play with KG at times. 

So Rondo, Lee, Sullinger, Protected 1st for Vasquez, Gordon, Lopez.
If we could get Lopez back, then I probably would strongly consider it (depends on how things play out this offseason with KG and PP). But I'm not giving up Sully or Bradley, maybe its asking for too much, but I think we have the luxury of being picky when we are offering a proven asset like Rondo.

Maybe Rondo, Lee, Melo and we draft and trade Kelly Olynyk (or another big). Swapping PG/SGs and Cs.

Garnett/Lopez/Shav
Sully/Bass
Pierce/Green
Gordon/Terry/Crawford
Vasquez/Bradley/Williams

Thats a solid lineup with some really good depth. We'd be really competitive and there is a lot of youth behind KG, PP and Terry so when they retire we can bring in complementary FAs and not drop off the face of the earth. The Hornets probably aren't willing to give up that much talent for basically just Rondo, but I'm not taking on a risky max guy like Gordon without some other strong pieces being included.
But you aren't trading a healthy Rondo.  You are trading a Rondo coming off an ACL injury.  No one has any idea what kind of player he is going to be and as such his value is not nearly as high as it would have been.  Boston isn't giving up Rondo and a bunch of crap and getting back Vasquez, Gordon, and Lopez.  There needs to be some other real value included especially with Rondo's health concerns.
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