Trade Idea - Involves Eric Gordon

[connor]

Maybe Boston could alter the NO trade and also get back Robin Lopez.  Maybe Melo and a future 1st is enough for him to be included though it probably would take Sullinger and I may be ok with that as Robin Lopez is a very strong back-up center who could also play with KG at times. 

So Rondo, Lee, Sullinger, Protected 1st for Vasquez, Gordon, Lopez.

If we could get Lopez back, then I probably would strongly consider it (depends on how things play out this offseason with KG and PP). But I'm not giving up Sully or Bradley, maybe its asking for too much, but I think we have the luxury of being picky when we are offering a proven asset like Rondo.

Maybe Rondo, Lee, Melo and we draft and trade Kelly Olynyk (or another big). Swapping PG/SGs and Cs.

Garnett/Lopez/Shav
Sully/Bass
Pierce/Green
Gordon/Terry/Crawford
Vasquez/Bradley/Williams

Thats a solid lineup with some really good depth. We'd be really competitive and there is a lot of youth behind KG, PP and Terry so when they retire we can bring in complementary FAs and not drop off the face of the earth. The Hornets probably aren't willing to give up that much talent for basically just Rondo, but I'm not taking on a risky max guy like Gordon without some other strong pieces being included.

But you aren't trading a healthy Rondo.  You are trading a Rondo coming off an ACL injury.  No one has any idea what kind of player he is going to be and as such his value is not nearly as high as it would have been.  Boston isn't giving up Rondo and a bunch of crap and getting back Vasquez, Gordon, and Lopez.  There needs to be some other real value included especially with Rondo's health concerns.

In fairness you suggested Melo and a future first and then conceded that Sully would have to be included most likely to get the deal done, my final offer would stop short at Sully and just be Melo and a first plus Rondo and Lee.

I realize you aren't trading a healthy Rondo, but given that his injury was a partial tear and  he is expected to come back 100% (I know nothing is a sure thing especially with knees) I would say his value hasn't absolutely plummeted and I would shop him around at the same level that I would once he comes back because either a team is willing to make a deal going on faith that he will come back the same player or I'm not bothering to trade him until I can get his full value.

No sense in moving him at a discount now, when next February/Summer you could be getting much more value for him.

I was originally totally against the idea. I think Rondo alone is worth Vasquez and Gordon given the fact that the former might be at his ceiling with his physical tools and the latter has major injury concerns and a larger contract. I wouldn't make the deal if it just returned the pair of them, Rondo is probably worth more (when fully healthy) than both of them together, so either we also come away with Lopez and they are willing to take just Melo and a pick as extra compensation or I walk away. There will be plenty of other opportunities to improve this team via a Rondo trade that would net us a better return IMO than just Gordon and Vasquez.

[Moranis]

Maybe Boston could alter the NO trade and also get back Robin Lopez.  Maybe Melo and a future 1st is enough for him to be included though it probably would take Sullinger and I may be ok with that as Robin Lopez is a very strong back-up center who could also play with KG at times. 

So Rondo, Lee, Sullinger, Protected 1st for Vasquez, Gordon, Lopez.

If we could get Lopez back, then I probably would strongly consider it (depends on how things play out this offseason with KG and PP). But I'm not giving up Sully or Bradley, maybe its asking for too much, but I think we have the luxury of being picky when we are offering a proven asset like Rondo.

Maybe Rondo, Lee, Melo and we draft and trade Kelly Olynyk (or another big). Swapping PG/SGs and Cs.

Garnett/Lopez/Shav
Sully/Bass
Pierce/Green
Gordon/Terry/Crawford
Vasquez/Bradley/Williams

Thats a solid lineup with some really good depth. We'd be really competitive and there is a lot of youth behind KG, PP and Terry so when they retire we can bring in complementary FAs and not drop off the face of the earth. The Hornets probably aren't willing to give up that much talent for basically just Rondo, but I'm not taking on a risky max guy like Gordon without some other strong pieces being included.

But you aren't trading a healthy Rondo.  You are trading a Rondo coming off an ACL injury.  No one has any idea what kind of player he is going to be and as such his value is not nearly as high as it would have been.  Boston isn't giving up Rondo and a bunch of crap and getting back Vasquez, Gordon, and Lopez.  There needs to be some other real value included especially with Rondo's health concerns.

In fairness you suggested Melo and a future first and then conceded that Sully would have to be included most likely to get the deal done, my final offer would stop short at Sully and just be Melo and a first plus Rondo and Lee.

I realize you aren't trading a healthy Rondo, but given that his injury was a partial tear and  he is expected to come back 100% (I know nothing is a sure thing especially with knees) I would say his value hasn't absolutely plummeted and I would shop him around at the same level that I would once he comes back because either a team is willing to make a deal going on faith that he will come back the same player or I'm not bothering to trade him until I can get his full value.

No sense in moving him at a discount now, when next February/Summer you could be getting much more value for him.

I was originally totally against the idea. I think Rondo alone is worth Vasquez and Gordon given the fact that the former might be at his ceiling with his physical tools and the latter has major injury concerns and a larger contract. I wouldn't make the deal if it just returned the pair of them, Rondo is probably worth more (when fully healthy) than both of them together, so either we also come away with Lopez and they are willing to take just Melo and a pick as extra compensation or I walk away. There will be plenty of other opportunities to improve this team via a Rondo trade that would net us a better return IMO than just Gordon and Vasquez.

I just don't see Gordon and Vasquez as a discount.  Vasquez is a rising star (I know he is 26, but he is in just his third year) and Gordon can be an incredible scorer.  As has been pointed out, New Orleans preferred Gordon instead of Rondo in a Chris Paul trade.  There is a reason for that.  Now obviously he hasn't been healthy and he is unhappy in New Orleans, but the talent is there.  The trade, even with Sullinger, is a pretty clear "talent" upgrade for Boston.  It really is a no brainer and Ainge would do it in an instant.

[connor]

Maybe Boston could alter the NO trade and also get back Robin Lopez.  Maybe Melo and a future 1st is enough for him to be included though it probably would take Sullinger and I may be ok with that as Robin Lopez is a very strong back-up center who could also play with KG at times. 

So Rondo, Lee, Sullinger, Protected 1st for Vasquez, Gordon, Lopez.

If we could get Lopez back, then I probably would strongly consider it (depends on how things play out this offseason with KG and PP). But I'm not giving up Sully or Bradley, maybe its asking for too much, but I think we have the luxury of being picky when we are offering a proven asset like Rondo.

Maybe Rondo, Lee, Melo and we draft and trade Kelly Olynyk (or another big). Swapping PG/SGs and Cs.

Garnett/Lopez/Shav
Sully/Bass
Pierce/Green
Gordon/Terry/Crawford
Vasquez/Bradley/Williams

Thats a solid lineup with some really good depth. We'd be really competitive and there is a lot of youth behind KG, PP and Terry so when they retire we can bring in complementary FAs and not drop off the face of the earth. The Hornets probably aren't willing to give up that much talent for basically just Rondo, but I'm not taking on a risky max guy like Gordon without some other strong pieces being included.

But you aren't trading a healthy Rondo.  You are trading a Rondo coming off an ACL injury.  No one has any idea what kind of player he is going to be and as such his value is not nearly as high as it would have been.  Boston isn't giving up Rondo and a bunch of crap and getting back Vasquez, Gordon, and Lopez.  There needs to be some other real value included especially with Rondo's health concerns.

In fairness you suggested Melo and a future first and then conceded that Sully would have to be included most likely to get the deal done, my final offer would stop short at Sully and just be Melo and a first plus Rondo and Lee.

I realize you aren't trading a healthy Rondo, but given that his injury was a partial tear and  he is expected to come back 100% (I know nothing is a sure thing especially with knees) I would say his value hasn't absolutely plummeted and I would shop him around at the same level that I would once he comes back because either a team is willing to make a deal going on faith that he will come back the same player or I'm not bothering to trade him until I can get his full value.

No sense in moving him at a discount now, when next February/Summer you could be getting much more value for him.

I was originally totally against the idea. I think Rondo alone is worth Vasquez and Gordon given the fact that the former might be at his ceiling with his physical tools and the latter has major injury concerns and a larger contract. I wouldn't make the deal if it just returned the pair of them, Rondo is probably worth more (when fully healthy) than both of them together, so either we also come away with Lopez and they are willing to take just Melo and a pick as extra compensation or I walk away. There will be plenty of other opportunities to improve this team via a Rondo trade that would net us a better return IMO than just Gordon and Vasquez.

I just don't see Gordon and Vasquez as a discount.  Vasquez is a rising star (I know he is 26, but he is in just his third year) and Gordon can be an incredible scorer.  As has been pointed out, New Orleans preferred Gordon instead of Rondo in a Chris Paul trade.  There is a reason for that.  Now obviously he hasn't been healthy and he is unhappy in New Orleans, but the talent is there.  The trade, even with Sullinger, is a pretty clear "talent" upgrade for Boston.  It really is a no brainer and Ainge would do it in an instant.

Vasquez is a rising star, but I think this is his ceiling (fringe top 10, more likely top 15 PG). Gordon can be an incredible scorer, but he has health issues and a max contract a terrible combo, plus his behavior is pushing him out of NO. They chose him over Rondo and look how thats worked out, they are already shopping and have barely got half a season out of him.

I do think that the upgrade over our current SG position would probably outweigh the downgrade at PG, but the bottom line is that in my opinion, and it may just be personal preference, there are better deals out there.

And just so I'm not one of those guys who says no there is better and provides no alternatives, this is one of my top choices: Rondo, Lee, Melo, Pick to the Kings for Cousins, Evans and Thomas.

Evans and Gordon have about the same career numbers, Evans has none of the injury issues and would come in a sign and trade at a lower figure. Cousins is a 20/10 big with baggage that fills a huge hole and Thomas is a promising PG. Less risk, more reward, same price (heavily rumored trade option even after Rondo went down).

Bottom line is in order to take a risk on Gordon and give up our biggest asset in Rondo I want to be overwhelmed by the Hornets and the only way to do that is to get Lopez as well. I admit its a lopsided trade, but thats what it would take to get me to sign off. 

[Celtics4ever]

Were I to trade Rondo it would be for a young big.   Not an oft injured SG.   Bradley is not a PG though and how much longer will PP be around to be point forward.

I think we can draft a decent SG perhaps this year if we don't land a big.

[Moranis]

Maybe Boston could alter the NO trade and also get back Robin Lopez.  Maybe Melo and a future 1st is enough for him to be included though it probably would take Sullinger and I may be ok with that as Robin Lopez is a very strong back-up center who could also play with KG at times. 

So Rondo, Lee, Sullinger, Protected 1st for Vasquez, Gordon, Lopez.

If we could get Lopez back, then I probably would strongly consider it (depends on how things play out this offseason with KG and PP). But I'm not giving up Sully or Bradley, maybe its asking for too much, but I think we have the luxury of being picky when we are offering a proven asset like Rondo.

Maybe Rondo, Lee, Melo and we draft and trade Kelly Olynyk (or another big). Swapping PG/SGs and Cs.

Garnett/Lopez/Shav
Sully/Bass
Pierce/Green
Gordon/Terry/Crawford
Vasquez/Bradley/Williams

Thats a solid lineup with some really good depth. We'd be really competitive and there is a lot of youth behind KG, PP and Terry so when they retire we can bring in complementary FAs and not drop off the face of the earth. The Hornets probably aren't willing to give up that much talent for basically just Rondo, but I'm not taking on a risky max guy like Gordon without some other strong pieces being included.

But you aren't trading a healthy Rondo.  You are trading a Rondo coming off an ACL injury.  No one has any idea what kind of player he is going to be and as such his value is not nearly as high as it would have been.  Boston isn't giving up Rondo and a bunch of crap and getting back Vasquez, Gordon, and Lopez.  There needs to be some other real value included especially with Rondo's health concerns.

In fairness you suggested Melo and a future first and then conceded that Sully would have to be included most likely to get the deal done, my final offer would stop short at Sully and just be Melo and a first plus Rondo and Lee.

I realize you aren't trading a healthy Rondo, but given that his injury was a partial tear and  he is expected to come back 100% (I know nothing is a sure thing especially with knees) I would say his value hasn't absolutely plummeted and I would shop him around at the same level that I would once he comes back because either a team is willing to make a deal going on faith that he will come back the same player or I'm not bothering to trade him until I can get his full value.

No sense in moving him at a discount now, when next February/Summer you could be getting much more value for him.

I was originally totally against the idea. I think Rondo alone is worth Vasquez and Gordon given the fact that the former might be at his ceiling with his physical tools and the latter has major injury concerns and a larger contract. I wouldn't make the deal if it just returned the pair of them, Rondo is probably worth more (when fully healthy) than both of them together, so either we also come away with Lopez and they are willing to take just Melo and a pick as extra compensation or I walk away. There will be plenty of other opportunities to improve this team via a Rondo trade that would net us a better return IMO than just Gordon and Vasquez.

I just don't see Gordon and Vasquez as a discount.  Vasquez is a rising star (I know he is 26, but he is in just his third year) and Gordon can be an incredible scorer.  As has been pointed out, New Orleans preferred Gordon instead of Rondo in a Chris Paul trade.  There is a reason for that.  Now obviously he hasn't been healthy and he is unhappy in New Orleans, but the talent is there.  The trade, even with Sullinger, is a pretty clear "talent" upgrade for Boston.  It really is a no brainer and Ainge would do it in an instant.

Vasquez is a rising star, but I think this is his ceiling (fringe top 10, more likely top 15 PG). Gordon can be an incredible scorer, but he has health issues and a max contract a terrible combo, plus his behavior is pushing him out of NO. They chose him over Rondo and look how thats worked out, they are already shopping and have barely got half a season out of him.

I do think that the upgrade over our current SG position would probably outweigh the downgrade at PG, but the bottom line is that in my opinion, and it may just be personal preference, there are better deals out there.

And just so I'm not one of those guys who says no there is better and provides no alternatives, this is one of my top choices: Rondo, Lee, Melo, Pick to the Kings for Cousins, Evans and Thomas.

Evans and Gordon have about the same career numbers, Evans has none of the injury issues and would come in a sign and trade at a lower figure. Cousins is a 20/10 big with baggage that fills a huge hole and Thomas is a promising PG. Less risk, more reward, same price (heavily rumored trade option even after Rondo went down).

Bottom line is in order to take a risk on Gordon and give up our biggest asset in Rondo I want to be overwhelmed by the Hornets and the only way to do that is to get Lopez as well. I admit its a lopsided trade, but thats what it would take to get me to sign off.

Yeah but Sacramento/Seattle is not going to make that trade.  I know it was discussed heavily on this board, but Sacramento was not going to trade Cousins and certainly not going to trade Cousins, Evans, and Thomas for Rondo and a pile of crap.  It will never happen so there is no point in discussing it like it is a possibility.

[connor]

Yeah but Sacramento/Seattle is not going to make that trade.  I know it was discussed heavily on this board, but Sacramento was not going to trade Cousins and certainly not going to trade Cousins, Evans, and Thomas for Rondo and a pile of crap.  It will never happen so there is no point in discussing it like it is a possibility.

The mere fact that they've shopped Cousins consistently for the last season and a half would suggest to me that they've strongly considered dealing him. The Celtics have shopped Rondo for a solid 3 years now and he is still on our roster, doesn't mean we aren't seriously looking at offers.

The deal wasn't just discussed heavily on this board, a good few analysts suggested it (Simmons posted 3 versions of it, he is a Boston homer, but still). That suggests to me that there is some strength to it. Rondo has the star power a team like Sacramento/Seattle needs.

Cousins is a major headache that as recently as February was discussed in a deal with the C's that didn't involve Rondo, PP or KG, so they were getting way less value than this deal would provide. Evans has been getting worse each year since his ROY campaign and needs a change of scenery. He's a restricted FA that didn't get an early offer at the start of the season and is going to command 10m minimum on the open market. 

Now on the surface it seems like a deal that favors the Celtics too much, but the C's aren't going for a Cousins for Rondo swap and Evans might just walk with no return anyway. I'd be perfectly happy to include Sully or Bradley in a deal plus our pick this year since it nets us a building block big.

So something like: Rondo, Sully, Lee, Melo and our 2013 first, I think is enough to pique their interest (and I'd throw in Crawford if necessary or discuss a HEAVILY protected future first).

They get their PG for the future in Rondo, save 10m by not signing Evans, which can go to a big like Millsap or take a run at Josh Smith to pair with Rondo. A pick in the teens this year and a solid young big in Sully, a project in Melo, and SGs to replace Evans in Lee and Crawford.

Thats a pretty [dang] good haul. Add in their lottery pick this year and some of their young talent (Thornton, Patterson, Fredette) and they have an interesting team with star power now. And even if they suck again next year (which I'd say they would anyway with Cousins and Evans) they get another lottery pick in a great draft.

Bottom line is that Rondo is our only chance at a future, either building around him or getting assets for him. If the deals out there aren't blowing Danny away then hold off until his value goes back up or build around him. If we settle we are going to end up like the Kings. Cousins and Evans is great, Gordon is too risky and doesn't get us a big. Theres no rush to trade Rondo.