Doc deserves coach of the year consideration

[Celtics18]

Yes but have you considered that Doc is a bad coach QED?

He is a two time coach of the year for two different teams.
He is the single biggest draw that we have for this team for free agents.
Players love him.
Coaches respect him.


He is not a bad coach.  That's the same kind of idiotic complaining I've heard about Belichick being an overrated defensive coach.  I mean LOL come on.

Um,

First off, 1 time coach of the year, with the Orlando Magic, hugely because of Tracy Mcgrady's move to Orlando. It turned around their 2000 season.

Biggest draw we have is Rajon Rondo, its well documented that he has been a big part of the recruitment process of players by reaching out to them in the off season.

Players love him because he is a good people person great at managing characters and egos. Coaches love him because he is a good X's and O's kind of coach, and after time out plays.

Here's what I don't like about his coaching.

He doesn't manage rotations well.

He doesn't make in-game adjustments.

He doesn't ride the hot hand.

He is stubborn with his "small ball".

He doesn't like/trust playing his big men

He doesn't give new players minutes. Says they have to earn them, but how does that work if you don't give them the opportunity to earn them said minutes.

He thinks that his system is not flawed, and if the players execute it to perfection, that we will be successful at all times.
(at least thats what I'm getting when he is being interviewed)

I like a coach like Pop because he is not afraid to play new talent.
He is firm/hard as a head coach, but his players love him still. So I'm not buying the whole, "you have to be very likeable (like DOC) to be a good coach" theory. He is also good with his X's and O's. Great at managing players minutes. Makes adjustments, Rides the hot hand, convinces great players like Manu Ginobilli to come off the bench.

If you think about it, we have roughly the same talent as the personnel they have in the Spurs. But we are still in the bottom 7/8 in the weaker conference.


Thats the end of my rant.

Doesn't manage rotations well:  That's simply the classic cry of the arm chair coach who doesn't actually have any reason to watch the game all that carefully.  It's always easy to sit in front of your TV screen with a cold one in one hand and a bag of chips in the other and shout; "c'mon, coach, put so-and-so in!!!"

Doesn't make in-game adjustments:  Absurd.  Of course he does.  You may not recognize all of them, but that doesn't mean they don't happen.

He doesn't ride the hot hand:  I've seen guys get hot and be given the green light countless times on this team.  Take tonight's game as a recent example.  They were working hard as a team to get Jeff Green the ball in scoring situations for much of the night when he was hot.

Stubborn with small ball:  Personally, I think small ball will be a key to us having any kind of chance against the Heat in the playoffs.

Doesn't play bigs:  See above.

Doesn't play new guys:  Jamal Crawford and Shav Randolph would like to say hello.

Doesn't think his system is flawed:  Haha.  Good one.

End of response to rant.

[Lightskinsmurf]

Yes but have you considered that Doc is a bad coach QED?

He is a two time coach of the year for two different teams.
He is the single biggest draw that we have for this team for free agents.
Players love him.
Coaches respect him.


He is not a bad coach.  That's the same kind of idiotic complaining I've heard about Belichick being an overrated defensive coach.  I mean LOL come on.

Um,

First off, 1 time coach of the year, with the Orlando Magic, hugely because of Tracy Mcgrady's move to Orlando. It turned around their 2000 season.

Biggest draw we have is Rajon Rondo, its well documented that he has been a big part of the recruitment process of players by reaching out to them in the off season.

Players love him because he is a good people person great at managing characters and egos. Coaches love him because he is a good X's and O's kind of coach, and after time out plays.

Here's what I don't like about his coaching.

He doesn't manage rotations well.

He doesn't make in-game adjustments.

He doesn't ride the hot hand.

He is stubborn with his "small ball".

He doesn't like/trust playing his big men

He doesn't give new players minutes. Says they have to earn them, but how does that work if you don't give them the opportunity to earn them said minutes.

He thinks that his system is not flawed, and if the players execute it to perfection, that we will be successful at all times.
(at least thats what I'm getting when he is being interviewed)

I like a coach like Pop because he is not afraid to play new talent.
He is firm/hard as a head coach, but his players love him still. So I'm not buying the whole, "you have to be very likeable (like DOC) to be a good coach" theory. He is also good with his X's and O's. Great at managing players minutes. Makes adjustments, Rides the hot hand, convinces great players like Manu Ginobilli to come off the bench.

If you think about it, we have roughly the same talent as the personnel they have in the Spurs. But we are still in the bottom 7/8 in the weaker conference.


Thats the end of my rant.

  Personally, I think small ball will be a key to us having any kind of chance against the Heat in the playoffs.

We already lost then.

[timobusa]

Yes but have you considered that Doc is a bad coach QED?

He is a two time coach of the year for two different teams.
He is the single biggest draw that we have for this team for free agents.
Players love him.
Coaches respect him.


He is not a bad coach.  That's the same kind of idiotic complaining I've heard about Belichick being an overrated defensive coach.  I mean LOL come on.

Um,

First off, 1 time coach of the year, with the Orlando Magic, hugely because of Tracy Mcgrady's move to Orlando. It turned around their 2000 season.

Biggest draw we have is Rajon Rondo, its well documented that he has been a big part of the recruitment process of players by reaching out to them in the off season.

Players love him because he is a good people person great at managing characters and egos. Coaches love him because he is a good X's and O's kind of coach, and after time out plays.

Here's what I don't like about his coaching.

He doesn't manage rotations well.

He doesn't make in-game adjustments.

He doesn't ride the hot hand.

He is stubborn with his "small ball".

He doesn't like/trust playing his big men

He doesn't give new players minutes. Says they have to earn them, but how does that work if you don't give them the opportunity to earn them said minutes.

He thinks that his system is not flawed, and if the players execute it to perfection, that we will be successful at all times.
(at least thats what I'm getting when he is being interviewed)

I like a coach like Pop because he is not afraid to play new talent.
He is firm/hard as a head coach, but his players love him still. So I'm not buying the whole, "you have to be very likeable (like DOC) to be a good coach" theory. He is also good with his X's and O's. Great at managing players minutes. Makes adjustments, Rides the hot hand, convinces great players like Manu Ginobilli to come off the bench.

If you think about it, we have roughly the same talent as the personnel they have in the Spurs. But we are still in the bottom 7/8 in the weaker conference.


Thats the end of my rant.

Doesn't manage rotations well:  That's simply the classic cry of the arm chair coach who doesn't actually have any reason to watch the game all that carefully.  It's always easy to sit in front of your TV screen with a cold one in one hand and a bag of chips in the other and shout; "c'mon, coach, put so-and-so in!!!"

Doesn't make in-game adjustments:  Absurd.  Of course he does.  You may not recognize all of them, but that doesn't mean they don't happen.

He doesn't ride the hot hand:  I've seen guys get hot and be given the green light countless times on this team.  Take tonight's game as a recent example.  They were working hard as a team to get Jeff Green the ball in scoring situations for much of the night when he was hot.

Stubborn with small ball:  Personally, I think small ball will be a key to us having any kind of chance against the Heat in the playoffs.

Doesn't play bigs:  See above.

Doesn't play new guys:  Jamal Crawford and Shav Randolph would like to say hello.

Doesn't think his system is flawed:  Haha.  Good one.

End of response to rant.

You didn't even refute my arguments with factual evidences.

He doesn't manage his rotation, its a known fact. He always plays them either too much minutes or too little minutes.
For example tonight, Shavlik Randolph played decent, granted he didn't play like he did in the game against Atlanta, but he never got back to court until the last 4 minutes of play when we were down by 20.

He doesn't make in game adjustments, we could have gone bigger a bunch of times this game and a couple of games before, granted he made the adjustment of starting Wilcox Green and Bass, but that was not done in game, that was done after we lost 4 or 5 straight in a row.
That's the only adjustment he made, his starting 5, but he played small ball the rest of the game.
The in-game adjustments I am talking about is about match ups. The Knicks didn't have a real big tonight, Martin being the only one, he could have put Wilcox and Bass to bang inside, but nope, they only played the first 8 minutes together, after that, we went small.

If you think small ball is the key to beating Miami in the playoffs, just ask the 2011 Mavericks, they played them big, Chandler/Dirk/Haywood/Mahinmi/Marion all 6'9 or taller, and guess who won? Dallas.

And yes he doesn't play bigs. Hence small ball.

We don't have JAMAL CRAWFORD in our team, and Shav barely played tonight.

And I'm the arm chair coach...

Good one..

I just call it like I see it...

[Celtics18]

Yes but have you considered that Doc is a bad coach QED?

He is a two time coach of the year for two different teams.
He is the single biggest draw that we have for this team for free agents.
Players love him.
Coaches respect him.


He is not a bad coach.  That's the same kind of idiotic complaining I've heard about Belichick being an overrated defensive coach.  I mean LOL come on.

Um,

First off, 1 time coach of the year, with the Orlando Magic, hugely because of Tracy Mcgrady's move to Orlando. It turned around their 2000 season.

Biggest draw we have is Rajon Rondo, its well documented that he has been a big part of the recruitment process of players by reaching out to them in the off season.

Players love him because he is a good people person great at managing characters and egos. Coaches love him because he is a good X's and O's kind of coach, and after time out plays.

Here's what I don't like about his coaching.

He doesn't manage rotations well.

He doesn't make in-game adjustments.

He doesn't ride the hot hand.

He is stubborn with his "small ball".

He doesn't like/trust playing his big men

He doesn't give new players minutes. Says they have to earn them, but how does that work if you don't give them the opportunity to earn them said minutes.

He thinks that his system is not flawed, and if the players execute it to perfection, that we will be successful at all times.
(at least thats what I'm getting when he is being interviewed)

I like a coach like Pop because he is not afraid to play new talent.
He is firm/hard as a head coach, but his players love him still. So I'm not buying the whole, "you have to be very likeable (like DOC) to be a good coach" theory. He is also good with his X's and O's. Great at managing players minutes. Makes adjustments, Rides the hot hand, convinces great players like Manu Ginobilli to come off the bench.

If you think about it, we have roughly the same talent as the personnel they have in the Spurs. But we are still in the bottom 7/8 in the weaker conference.


Thats the end of my rant.

  Personally, I think small ball will be a key to us having any kind of chance against the Heat in the playoffs.

We already lost then.

We won the game at the end of January and came very close to winning the one a couple of weeks ago by playing small ball.

[Celtics18]

Yes but have you considered that Doc is a bad coach QED?

He is a two time coach of the year for two different teams.
He is the single biggest draw that we have for this team for free agents.
Players love him.
Coaches respect him.


He is not a bad coach.  That's the same kind of idiotic complaining I've heard about Belichick being an overrated defensive coach.  I mean LOL come on.

Um,

First off, 1 time coach of the year, with the Orlando Magic, hugely because of Tracy Mcgrady's move to Orlando. It turned around their 2000 season.

Biggest draw we have is Rajon Rondo, its well documented that he has been a big part of the recruitment process of players by reaching out to them in the off season.

Players love him because he is a good people person great at managing characters and egos. Coaches love him because he is a good X's and O's kind of coach, and after time out plays.

Here's what I don't like about his coaching.

He doesn't manage rotations well.

He doesn't make in-game adjustments.

He doesn't ride the hot hand.

He is stubborn with his "small ball".

He doesn't like/trust playing his big men

He doesn't give new players minutes. Says they have to earn them, but how does that work if you don't give them the opportunity to earn them said minutes.

He thinks that his system is not flawed, and if the players execute it to perfection, that we will be successful at all times.
(at least thats what I'm getting when he is being interviewed)

I like a coach like Pop because he is not afraid to play new talent.
He is firm/hard as a head coach, but his players love him still. So I'm not buying the whole, "you have to be very likeable (like DOC) to be a good coach" theory. He is also good with his X's and O's. Great at managing players minutes. Makes adjustments, Rides the hot hand, convinces great players like Manu Ginobilli to come off the bench.

If you think about it, we have roughly the same talent as the personnel they have in the Spurs. But we are still in the bottom 7/8 in the weaker conference.


Thats the end of my rant.

Doesn't manage rotations well:  That's simply the classic cry of the arm chair coach who doesn't actually have any reason to watch the game all that carefully.  It's always easy to sit in front of your TV screen with a cold one in one hand and a bag of chips in the other and shout; "c'mon, coach, put so-and-so in!!!"

Doesn't make in-game adjustments:  Absurd.  Of course he does.  You may not recognize all of them, but that doesn't mean they don't happen.

He doesn't ride the hot hand:  I've seen guys get hot and be given the green light countless times on this team.  Take tonight's game as a recent example.  They were working hard as a team to get Jeff Green the ball in scoring situations for much of the night when he was hot.

Stubborn with small ball:  Personally, I think small ball will be a key to us having any kind of chance against the Heat in the playoffs.

Doesn't play bigs:  See above.

Doesn't play new guys:  Jamal Crawford and Shav Randolph would like to say hello.

Doesn't think his system is flawed:  Haha.  Good one.

End of response to rant.

You didn't even refute my arguments with factual evidences.

He doesn't manage his rotation, its a known fact. He always plays them either too much minutes or too little minutes.
For example tonight, Shavlik Randolph played decent, granted he didn't play like he did in the game against Atlanta, but he never got back to court until the last 4 minutes of play when we were down by 20.

He doesn't make in game adjustments, we could have gone bigger a bunch of times this game and a couple of games before, granted he made the adjustment of starting Wilcox Green and Bass, but that was not done in game, that was done after we lost 4 or 5 straight in a row.
That's the only adjustment he made, his starting 5, but he played small ball the rest of the game.
The in-game adjustments I am talking about is about match ups. The Knicks didn't have a real big tonight, Martin being the only one, he could have put Wilcox and Bass to bang inside, but nope, they only played the first 8 minutes together, after that, we went small.

If you think small ball is the key to beating Miami in the playoffs, just ask the 2011 Mavericks, they played them big, Chandler/Dirk/Haywood/Mahinmi/Marion all 6'9 or taller, and guess who won? Dallas.

And yes he doesn't play bigs. Hence small ball.

We don't have JAMAL CRAWFORD in our team, and Shav barely played tonight.

And I'm the arm chair coach...

I just call it like I see it...

Gee, thanks for all that factual evidences. 

Anyway, it seemed to me that tonight our big starting lineup had trouble matching up with the Knicks small ball lineup to start the game.  If anything, I would have rather seen Doc start two guards with Paul and Jeff at the three and four, respectively tonight.  I give him credit for making the in-game adjustment of going smaller early to try to match up with the Knicks floor-spreading, three point shooting offense, though.  Alas, the Knicks were on fire and we couldn't manage to cool them down.  It certainly wasn't because we didn't go big enough.

[Galeto]

I hope Doc benches Bass when Garnett returns and keeps starting Green.  If he doesn't, well, he'd just be a clown.  I wouldn't be surprise if he congratulates himself out loud in the privacy of his home about how he's done such a bang up job of keeping Garnett fresh with his rest patterns.  Sure Garnett might be hurt right now but imagine what Garnett would be like if Doc hadn't made sure Garnett doesn't go for longer than 5 minutes in the first and third quarters.  Garnett might have retired from rheumatoid arthritis.  Nobody has quite cracked the longevity code like Doc has. 

[Who]

No way he deserves to be considered. One of his worst coaching performances of his career in my opinion.

+1

No team underachieved more and made worse use of their own personnel than the Celtics did in the first half of the season. Far and away the worst performance in the league relative to the talent on the roster. An absolute disaster.

Doc has done a lot better since the injuries but still too many questionable (lineup decisions, minutes distribution). A middling performance rather than a high level one.

So a terrible performance for the first half of the year and a mediocre one since then. Doc doesn't deserve to be anywhere near the COY discussion. 

[connor]

As much as I love Doc I have to say this year really isn't worthy of COY consideration. He has definitely had to overcome some major adversity with Rondo going down and then Sully, but the Celtics aren't really in the discussion as an actual contender this season.

Is making the playoffs with 2 hall of famers on your squad plus plenty of other quality talent with guys like Green, Lee, Terry and Bradley really what constitutes COY?

If the Celtics had managed to climb to the 3 or even 4 seed, show more consistency overall and hadn't gotten off to such a poor start with their full compliment of players, then Doc would be in the conversation.

But the poor show at the start when there were fairly high expectations, followed by inconsistent play and some ugly losses to seriously bad teams really doesn't elicit the kind of admiration I had for him in previous seasons.

[pearljammer10]

I love Doc and I dont think he is a bad coach or having a bad coaching season. However, I dont see how he is even in the running this year.

Thibs has to be up there. Pop as usually. Im surprised no one has mentioned Spolestra. Yes he has some crazy talent on that team to get him through and hide his deficiencies, but any time a coach has a team that wins 27 straight and is so glorified by the media outlets, he has to be considered as COY, like it or not.

[PhoSita]

Not even a little bit.

[fairweatherfan]

No way he deserves to be considered. One of his worst coaching performances of his career in my opinion.

+1

No team underachieved more and made worse use of their own personnel than the Celtics did in the first half of the season. Far and away the worst performance in the league relative to the talent on the roster. An absolute disaster.

Doc has done a lot better since the injuries but still too many questionable (lineup decisions, minutes distribution). A middling performance rather than a high level one.

So a terrible performance for the first half of the year and a mediocre one since then. Doc doesn't deserve to be anywhere near the COY discussion.

Yeah, all initial snark aside I agree with this.  I think Doc deserves some (not all) credit for keeping the team afloat with so many key injuries and midseason roster turnover, but the poor performance prior to the injuries disqualify him.  We did a worse job integrating our new personnel than just about any team in the league, and that's got to go partly on Doc's shoulders.

[CelticsFan9]

My biggest gripe with Doc this season:

Under-utilizing Jason Terry.  Terry and Ray Allen are two VERY different players, yet Doc stuck Terry is Ray's role, and didn't allow him to create, which is what he's best at doing.  Having Terry stand in the corner, come off screens, and spot-up is a waste of a decent scorer.

[CelticG1]

My biggest gripe with Doc this season:

Under-utilizing Jason Terry.  Terry and Ray Allen are two VERY different players, yet Doc stuck Terry is Ray's role, and didn't allow him to create, which is what he's best at doing.  Having Terry stand in the corner, come off screens, and spot-up is a waste of a decent scorer.

I think a lot of people inckuding me thought Terry was good when he realy isn't. I was ripping him a couple weeks ago and got called out becauee he basically has been just as efficient as he was with Dallas.

I guess it was never fair to compare JEt a Zero time all star to Ray a 10 time all star

[Edgar]

No way he deserves to be considered. One of his worst coaching performances of his career in my opinion.

+1

No team underachieved more and made worse use of their own personnel than the Celtics did in the first half of the season. Far and away the worst performance in the league relative to the talent on the roster. An absolute disaster.

Doc has done a lot better since the injuries but still too many questionable (lineup decisions, minutes distribution). A middling performance rather than a high level one.

So a terrible performance for the first half of the year and a mediocre one since then. Doc doesn't deserve to be anywhere near the COY discussion.

what this Who guys says.... 

[kgainez]

My biggest gripe with Doc this season:

Under-utilizing Jason Terry.  Terry and Ray Allen are two VERY different players, yet Doc stuck Terry is Ray's role, and didn't allow him to create, which is what he's best at doing.  Having Terry stand in the corner, come off screens, and spot-up is a waste of a decent scorer.

I think a lot of people inckuding me thought Terry was good when he realy isn't. I was ripping him a couple weeks ago and got called out becauee he basically has been just as efficient as he was with Dallas.

I guess it was never fair to compare JEt a Zero time all star to Ray a 10 time all star

I'm not sure I agree with this whole 'he's not good' thing. I do think he's being severely underutilized. I think he has to be the go to guy off the bench.