Relatively safe to say we would have beaten Miami last year with Bradley?

[Celtics18]

nope. 

Also it kinda goes both ways... they could have theoretically beat us easily had bosh been healthy the whole series.  As soon as Bosh came back, Miami took care of business.

  And if a healthy Bradley came back instead of Bosh Miami would have been rooting for us in the finals.

I doubt it . . . I'm sure they would have been rooting for OKC.

[CelticG1]

nope. 

Also it kinda goes both ways... they could have theoretically beat us easily had bosh been healthy the whole series.  As soon as Bosh came back, Miami took care of business.

You need to clarify that statement.

I believe as soon as Bosh came back we won 2 in a row

[CelticsFan9]

nope. 

Also it kinda goes both ways... they could have theoretically beat us easily had bosh been healthy the whole series.  As soon as Bosh came back, Miami took care of business.

You need to clarify that statement.

I believe as soon as Bosh came back we won 2 in a row

False.

Bosh came back and played like 12 minutes in Game 5, which we won.

He played like 20+ minutes in Game 6, and played ok, and Miami won.

He played maybe 30 minutes in Game 7, turned into Ray freaking Allen, and was a large factor in Miami's series-clinching win.

[mmmmm]

If the Heat had Bosh all 7 games and we had Bradley - maybe.
If the Heat had Bosh all 7 games and we had Bradley, Green, Wilcox - no doubt we would have won it

i completely disagree
if they had bosh, we get served every single night. Bosh was the only one who was consistent. Wade was nowhere to be found. LeBron was LeBron but he wasn't the LeBron we know now.

Bosh was only 'consistent' in the playoffs last year because he 'consistently' hit 3PT shots as a ridiculous, anomalous rate, far far above his normal average.  He shot something like 53% from 3PT land, while his career rate is something like 28%.

I he played those missing games, does he still hit that shot in those games?   Maybe.  Maybe not.

Personally, I think the biggest factor hurting the C's last season was that Allen and Pierce were both playing the whole series on bum legs, visibly slow and limping around.

Replay the series with those two guys healthy and everything else the same - maybe a different outcome.

[LarBrd33]

was bradley gonna guard LeBron?  cuz if not, the Heat still would have won.  If you play that series 10 times with or without Bradley... I think Boston takes it to 7 games once and only once... and that was the series you watched.  A Best case scenario.   Don't be confused by the fact that Boston stretched it to 7... LeBron wasn't losing that series. 

Also this entire thread is silly, because had Rose been healthy, we wouldn't have gotten past round 2.   Not to mention, the lowly 8th seed 76ers took us to 7 games in the previous round.  Boston was no closer to beating LeBron than the 76ers were to beating Boston.  Our path to the ECF was a cakewalk. Atlanta without Horford in Round 1.  8th seed Philly in round 2. 

I bet the Hawks forum has a legitimate claim that "relatively safe to say we would have beaten Boston last year with a healthy Horford?"... that series got pretty sketchy once a rusty Horford returned.  Could have easily lost that series and been out in Round 1.

[Meadowlark_Scal]

BRADLEY & RONDO..that is..!!!

[LarBrd33]

nope. 

Also it kinda goes both ways... they could have theoretically beat us easily had bosh been healthy the whole series.  As soon as Bosh came back, Miami took care of business.

You need to clarify that statement.

I believe as soon as Bosh came back we won 2 in a row

Allow me to clarify the statement.

Bosh missed the first 4 games of the series... which was tied 2-2.

Game 5, Bosh played a mere 14 minutes off the bench for MIami.  I don't count that.  Boston won by 4.

Game 6, Bosh plays 28 minutes... has a weak game - 7 points, 6 rebounds 3 blocks 37% shooting ... Miami crushes Boston by 19.

Game 7, Bosh plays 31 minutes... 19 points, 8 rebounds, 1 block, 1 steal... 80% shooting.  Miami crushes Boston by 13.

There really was never any doubt who was winning that series.  Miami got a little lazy early in the series (as they did against the Pacers the round before)... but they closed it out when it mattered.  Think 2008 Boston vs Atlanta.  Did Atlanta really ever have a chance?  Naaahh....


Fact is, with a size-depleted team like Boston... an all-star big man tends to matter.  People undervaluing Bosh's impact are stupid.  Just stupid.  He mattered. 


Which brings me to our 1st round matchup against Atlanta last year.

Thank our lucky stars, we faced off against Atlanta without their best player... star big man Al Horford.

Horford had been out for 4 months... He missed the first 3 games of the series and Boston took a 2-1 lead.

Game 4, a very rusty Horford returned for a total of 20 minutes off the bench.  I don't count that.   Boston takes a 3-1 lead.

Game 5, Horford (have I mentioned he hadn't played in 4 months?) plays 41 minutes... goes 8-15 with 19 points, 11 rebounds, 3 assists, 3 blocks, 3 steals... Atlanta wins the game.

Game 6, Horford plays 46 minutes.  Goes 6-9, 15 points, 9 rebounds, 4 assists, 1 block, 1 steal... Boston squeaks by witha  3 point victory to close out the series.  Phew. 

Atlanta had home court advantage.  The next game would have been in Atlanta.   If we're playing the silly "If so-and-so was healthy" game, you have to play the same game for HOrford.  Had Horford been healthy for that entire series, we probably wouldn't have made it out of round 1.  Boston's weakness was (and continues to be) lack of size.   

[Celtics18]

nope. 

Also it kinda goes both ways... they could have theoretically beat us easily had bosh been healthy the whole series.  As soon as Bosh came back, Miami took care of business.

You need to clarify that statement.

I believe as soon as Bosh came back we won 2 in a row

Allow me to clarify the statement.

Bosh missed the first 4 games of the series... which was tied 2-2.

Game 5, Bosh played a mere 14 minutes off the bench for MIami.  I don't count that.  Boston won by 4.

Game 6, Bosh plays 28 minutes... has a weak game - 7 points, 6 rebounds 3 blocks 37% shooting ... Miami crushes Boston by 19.

Game 7, Bosh plays 31 minutes... 19 points, 8 rebounds, 1 block, 1 steal... 80% shooting.  Miami crushes Boston by 13.

There really was never any doubt who was winning that series.  Miami got a little lazy early in the series (as they did against the Pacers the round before)... but they closed it out when it mattered.  Think 2008 Boston vs Atlanta.  Did Atlanta really ever have a chance?  Naaahh....


Fact is, with a size-depleted team like Boston... an all-star big man tends to matter.  People undervaluing Bosh's impact are stupid.  Just stupid.  He mattered. 


Which brings me to our 1st round matchup against Atlanta last year.

Thank our lucky stars, we faced off against Atlanta without their best player... star big man Al Horford.

Horford had been out for 4 months... He missed the first 3 games of the series and Boston took a 2-1 lead.

Game 4, a very rusty Horford returned for a total of 20 minutes off the bench.  I don't count that.   Boston takes a 3-1 lead.

Game 5, Horford (have I mentioned he hadn't played in 4 months?) plays 41 minutes... goes 8-15 with 19 points, 11 rebounds, 3 assists, 3 blocks, 3 steals... Atlanta wins the game.

Game 6, Horford plays 46 minutes.  Goes 6-9, 15 points, 9 rebounds, 4 assists, 1 block, 1 steal... Boston squeaks by witha  3 point victory to close out the series.  Phew. 

Atlanta had home court advantage.  The next game would have been in Atlanta.   If we're playing the silly "If so-and-so was healthy" game, you have to play the same game for HOrford.  Had Horford been healthy for that entire series, we probably wouldn't have made it out of round 1.  Boston's weakness was (and continues to be) lack of size.

I don't think that any of us "stupid people" are claiming that a healthy Bosh for the entire series wouldn't have helped Miami's chances.  What we are saying is that a healthy Bradley would have helped ours. 

Personally, I'm not a fan of excuses.  We lost to the Heat.  I can deal with that, but I don't want to hear excuses about why the other team couldn't beat us more soundly.

Every team that doesn't win it all has excuses.  All in all, getting to a seventh game of the conference finals against the prohibitive favorites was a great result as far as I'm concerned.

The desperate attempts to try to minimize that accomplishment, frankly, just make you sound like you have some kind of axe to grind or like you are trying to re-write history to fit in with your own narrative.   

[CelticsFan9]

nope. 

Also it kinda goes both ways... they could have theoretically beat us easily had bosh been healthy the whole series.  As soon as Bosh came back, Miami took care of business.

You need to clarify that statement.

I believe as soon as Bosh came back we won 2 in a row

Allow me to clarify the statement.

Bosh missed the first 4 games of the series... which was tied 2-2.

Game 5, Bosh played a mere 14 minutes off the bench for MIami.  I don't count that.  Boston won by 4.

Game 6, Bosh plays 28 minutes... has a weak game - 7 points, 6 rebounds 3 blocks 37% shooting ... Miami crushes Boston by 19.

Game 7, Bosh plays 31 minutes... 19 points, 8 rebounds, 1 block, 1 steal... 80% shooting.  Miami crushes Boston by 13.

There really was never any doubt who was winning that series.  Miami got a little lazy early in the series (as they did against the Pacers the round before)... but they closed it out when it mattered.  Think 2008 Boston vs Atlanta.  Did Atlanta really ever have a chance?  Naaahh....


Fact is, with a size-depleted team like Boston... an all-star big man tends to matter.  People undervaluing Bosh's impact are stupid.  Just stupid.  He mattered. 


Which brings me to our 1st round matchup against Atlanta last year.

Thank our lucky stars, we faced off against Atlanta without their best player... star big man Al Horford.

Horford had been out for 4 months... He missed the first 3 games of the series and Boston took a 2-1 lead.

Game 4, a very rusty Horford returned for a total of 20 minutes off the bench.  I don't count that.   Boston takes a 3-1 lead.

Game 5, Horford (have I mentioned he hadn't played in 4 months?) plays 41 minutes... goes 8-15 with 19 points, 11 rebounds, 3 assists, 3 blocks, 3 steals... Atlanta wins the game.

Game 6, Horford plays 46 minutes.  Goes 6-9, 15 points, 9 rebounds, 4 assists, 1 block, 1 steal... Boston squeaks by witha  3 point victory to close out the series.  Phew. 

Atlanta had home court advantage.  The next game would have been in Atlanta.   If we're playing the silly "If so-and-so was healthy" game, you have to play the same game for HOrford.  Had Horford been healthy for that entire series, we probably wouldn't have made it out of round 1.  Boston's weakness was (and continues to be) lack of size.

I don't think that any of us "stupid people" are claiming that a healthy Bosh for the entire series wouldn't have helped Miami's chances.  What we are saying is that a healthy Bradley would have helped ours. 

Personally, I'm not a fan of excuses.  We lost to the Heat.  I can deal with that, but I don't want to hear excuses about why the other team couldn't beat us more soundly.

Every team that doesn't win it all has excuses.  All in all, getting to a seventh game of the conference finals against the prohibitive favorites was a great result as far as I'm concerned.

The desperate attempts to try to minimize that accomplishment, frankly, just make you sound like you have some kind of axe to grind or like you are trying to re-write history to fit in with your own narrative.

I think the point LarBrd33 is trying to make is that Bosh would've have made more of a difference for Miami than Bradley would've made for us.  I think everyone here can agree that both guys being out hurt both teams.  It just so happened Miami got Bosh back, and we didn't get Bradley back.  Tough luck.

As far as excuses go, LarBrd33 is spot-on.  There are plenty people saying, "if Bradley was healthy, we win."  I'd argue that if Horford was healthy for our series with the Hawks (I'm talking the whole series), Atlanta wins.  I'd argue if Derrick Rose doesn't go down, we'd have lost to Chicago.  I'd also argue that if Ray doesn't have bone spurs, and if Zaza Pachulia (I think) doesn't trip Pierce and make him sprain his MCL, both those guys would've had a much larger impact in the playoffs, and would've been able to shoulder some of the load that Rondo and KG were forced to carry.

All in all, it doesn't really matter.  We lost to the Heat fair and square (yes, fair and square) and they won the title.  For the team we had last year, was that impressive?  Absolutely!  However, I was disappointed.  Ever since KG came here, it's been all about championships, and every year we don't win it all (until Pierce and KG retire/get traded), I'll be disappointed.

[drza44]

My take on this is (going back to the article I posted before the series started last year) is that Bradley's absence hurt us more than Bosh's absence hurt the Heat.  No, Bradley wouldn't have guarded LeBron.  But if you don't remember, Garnett essentially played a 1-man zone on Wade the whole series because Ray (ankles) simply could NOT stay with him.  Why do you think that Wade's numbers were so bad in that series?

Problem was, that freed up KG's man.  When that man was Udonis Haslem, no problem.  When that man became Chris Bosh, and Bosh was channeling his inner Ray Allen, it became a problem.

What Bradley does, if healthy, is handle Wade by himself.  Which lets KG focus more on helping Pierce with LeBron in games 1 - 5...and frankly the series is probably over by game 5 in that situation.  But even if Bosh comes back, letting KG concentrate on Bosh while providing reasonable support on LeBron/Wade instead of having to go all-in on Wade like last year dramatically boosts the Celtics' chances.

More detail in this Fanshot on Bradley and Green: http://www.celticsblog.com/2013/3/17/4116268/avery-bradley-and-jeff-green-help-make-the-heat-beatable

[LarBrd33]

nope. 

Also it kinda goes both ways... they could have theoretically beat us easily had bosh been healthy the whole series.  As soon as Bosh came back, Miami took care of business.

You need to clarify that statement.

I believe as soon as Bosh came back we won 2 in a row

Allow me to clarify the statement.

Bosh missed the first 4 games of the series... which was tied 2-2.

Game 5, Bosh played a mere 14 minutes off the bench for MIami.  I don't count that.  Boston won by 4.

Game 6, Bosh plays 28 minutes... has a weak game - 7 points, 6 rebounds 3 blocks 37% shooting ... Miami crushes Boston by 19.

Game 7, Bosh plays 31 minutes... 19 points, 8 rebounds, 1 block, 1 steal... 80% shooting.  Miami crushes Boston by 13.

There really was never any doubt who was winning that series.  Miami got a little lazy early in the series (as they did against the Pacers the round before)... but they closed it out when it mattered.  Think 2008 Boston vs Atlanta.  Did Atlanta really ever have a chance?  Naaahh....


Fact is, with a size-depleted team like Boston... an all-star big man tends to matter.  People undervaluing Bosh's impact are stupid.  Just stupid.  He mattered. 


Which brings me to our 1st round matchup against Atlanta last year.

Thank our lucky stars, we faced off against Atlanta without their best player... star big man Al Horford.

Horford had been out for 4 months... He missed the first 3 games of the series and Boston took a 2-1 lead.

Game 4, a very rusty Horford returned for a total of 20 minutes off the bench.  I don't count that.   Boston takes a 3-1 lead.

Game 5, Horford (have I mentioned he hadn't played in 4 months?) plays 41 minutes... goes 8-15 with 19 points, 11 rebounds, 3 assists, 3 blocks, 3 steals... Atlanta wins the game.

Game 6, Horford plays 46 minutes.  Goes 6-9, 15 points, 9 rebounds, 4 assists, 1 block, 1 steal... Boston squeaks by witha  3 point victory to close out the series.  Phew. 

Atlanta had home court advantage.  The next game would have been in Atlanta.   If we're playing the silly "If so-and-so was healthy" game, you have to play the same game for HOrford.  Had Horford been healthy for that entire series, we probably wouldn't have made it out of round 1.  Boston's weakness was (and continues to be) lack of size.

I don't think that any of us "stupid people" are claiming that a healthy Bosh for the entire series wouldn't have helped Miami's chances.  What we are saying is that a healthy Bradley would have helped ours. 

Personally, I'm not a fan of excuses.  We lost to the Heat.  I can deal with that, but I don't want to hear excuses about why the other team couldn't beat us more soundly.

Every team that doesn't win it all has excuses.  All in all, getting to a seventh game of the conference finals against the prohibitive favorites was a great result as far as I'm concerned.

The desperate attempts to try to minimize that accomplishment, frankly, just make you sound like you have some kind of axe to grind or like you are trying to re-write history to fit in with your own narrative.

I think the point LarBrd33 is trying to make is that Bosh would've have made more of a difference for Miami than Bradley would've made for us.  I think everyone here can agree that both guys being out hurt both teams.  It just so happened Miami got Bosh back, and we didn't get Bradley back.  Tough luck.

As far as excuses go, LarBrd33 is spot-on.  There are plenty people saying, "if Bradley was healthy, we win."  I'd argue that if Horford was healthy for our series with the Hawks (I'm talking the whole series), Atlanta wins.  I'd argue if Derrick Rose doesn't go down, we'd have lost to Chicago.  I'd also argue that if Ray doesn't have bone spurs, and if Zaza Pachulia (I think) doesn't trip Pierce and make him sprain his MCL, both those guys would've had a much larger impact in the playoffs, and would've been able to shoulder some of the load that Rondo and KG were forced to carry.

All in all, it doesn't really matter.  We lost to the Heat fair and square (yes, fair and square) and they won the title.  For the team we had last year, was that impressive?  Absolutely!  However, I was disappointed.  Ever since KG came here, it's been all about championships, and every year we don't win it all (until Pierce and KG retire/get traded), I'll be disappointed.

Yeah that's all I'm trying to say.  I'm not trying to minimize our accomplishment.  Taking Miami to 7 games was impressive.  Philly taking us to 7 games was impressive.  Still, Miami won.

It's a slippery slope... you start saying things like "We would have won with Bradley" and then you gotta go back and do revisionist history on every [dang] championship that ever happened... Like I'll be the first to say Boston would have repeated in 2009 had KG been healthy... or possibly won against the Lakers in 2010 had Perk not gone down... but then you have to acknowledge the fact that perhaps the Lakers knock us off in 2008 with a healthy Bynum.  Just a slippery slope... you don't wanna play this game.  Let's just say we were lucky to get as far as we did last year and leave it at that.

[Celtics18]

nope. 

Also it kinda goes both ways... they could have theoretically beat us easily had bosh been healthy the whole series.  As soon as Bosh came back, Miami took care of business.

You need to clarify that statement.

I believe as soon as Bosh came back we won 2 in a row

Allow me to clarify the statement.

Bosh missed the first 4 games of the series... which was tied 2-2.

Game 5, Bosh played a mere 14 minutes off the bench for MIami.  I don't count that.  Boston won by 4.

Game 6, Bosh plays 28 minutes... has a weak game - 7 points, 6 rebounds 3 blocks 37% shooting ... Miami crushes Boston by 19.

Game 7, Bosh plays 31 minutes... 19 points, 8 rebounds, 1 block, 1 steal... 80% shooting.  Miami crushes Boston by 13.

There really was never any doubt who was winning that series.  Miami got a little lazy early in the series (as they did against the Pacers the round before)... but they closed it out when it mattered.  Think 2008 Boston vs Atlanta.  Did Atlanta really ever have a chance?  Naaahh....


Fact is, with a size-depleted team like Boston... an all-star big man tends to matter.  People undervaluing Bosh's impact are stupid.  Just stupid.  He mattered. 


Which brings me to our 1st round matchup against Atlanta last year.

Thank our lucky stars, we faced off against Atlanta without their best player... star big man Al Horford.

Horford had been out for 4 months... He missed the first 3 games of the series and Boston took a 2-1 lead.

Game 4, a very rusty Horford returned for a total of 20 minutes off the bench.  I don't count that.   Boston takes a 3-1 lead.

Game 5, Horford (have I mentioned he hadn't played in 4 months?) plays 41 minutes... goes 8-15 with 19 points, 11 rebounds, 3 assists, 3 blocks, 3 steals... Atlanta wins the game.

Game 6, Horford plays 46 minutes.  Goes 6-9, 15 points, 9 rebounds, 4 assists, 1 block, 1 steal... Boston squeaks by witha  3 point victory to close out the series.  Phew. 

Atlanta had home court advantage.  The next game would have been in Atlanta.   If we're playing the silly "If so-and-so was healthy" game, you have to play the same game for HOrford.  Had Horford been healthy for that entire series, we probably wouldn't have made it out of round 1.  Boston's weakness was (and continues to be) lack of size.

I don't think that any of us "stupid people" are claiming that a healthy Bosh for the entire series wouldn't have helped Miami's chances.  What we are saying is that a healthy Bradley would have helped ours. 

Personally, I'm not a fan of excuses.  We lost to the Heat.  I can deal with that, but I don't want to hear excuses about why the other team couldn't beat us more soundly.

Every team that doesn't win it all has excuses.  All in all, getting to a seventh game of the conference finals against the prohibitive favorites was a great result as far as I'm concerned.

The desperate attempts to try to minimize that accomplishment, frankly, just make you sound like you have some kind of axe to grind or like you are trying to re-write history to fit in with your own narrative.

I think the point LarBrd33 is trying to make is that Bosh would've have made more of a difference for Miami than Bradley would've made for us.  I think everyone here can agree that both guys being out hurt both teams.  It just so happened Miami got Bosh back, and we didn't get Bradley back.  Tough luck.

As far as excuses go, LarBrd33 is spot-on.  There are plenty people saying, "if Bradley was healthy, we win."  I'd argue that if Horford was healthy for our series with the Hawks (I'm talking the whole series), Atlanta wins.  I'd argue if Derrick Rose doesn't go down, we'd have lost to Chicago.  I'd also argue that if Ray doesn't have bone spurs, and if Zaza Pachulia (I think) doesn't trip Pierce and make him sprain his MCL, both those guys would've had a much larger impact in the playoffs, and would've been able to shoulder some of the load that Rondo and KG were forced to carry.

All in all, it doesn't really matter.  We lost to the Heat fair and square (yes, fair and square) and they won the title.  For the team we had last year, was that impressive?  Absolutely!  However, I was disappointed.  Ever since KG came here, it's been all about championships, and every year we don't win it all (until Pierce and KG retire/get traded), I'll be disappointed.

Yeah that's all I'm trying to say.  I'm not trying to minimize our accomplishment.  Taking Miami to 7 games was impressive.  Philly taking us to 7 games was impressive.  Still, Miami won.

It's a slippery slope... you start saying things like "We would have won with Bradley" and then you gotta go back and do revisionist history on every [dang] championship that ever happened... Like I'll be the first to say Boston would have repeated in 2009 had KG been healthy... or possibly won against the Lakers in 2010 had Perk not gone down... but then you have to acknowledge the fact that perhaps the Lakers knock us off in 2008 with a healthy Bynum.  Just a slippery slope... you don't wanna play this game.  Let's just say we were lucky to get as far as we did last year and leave it at that.

Close.  But, let's just say that we were good enough to get as far as we got last year and leave it at that.

[LarBrd33]

nope. 

Also it kinda goes both ways... they could have theoretically beat us easily had bosh been healthy the whole series.  As soon as Bosh came back, Miami took care of business.

You need to clarify that statement.

I believe as soon as Bosh came back we won 2 in a row

Allow me to clarify the statement.

Bosh missed the first 4 games of the series... which was tied 2-2.

Game 5, Bosh played a mere 14 minutes off the bench for MIami.  I don't count that.  Boston won by 4.

Game 6, Bosh plays 28 minutes... has a weak game - 7 points, 6 rebounds 3 blocks 37% shooting ... Miami crushes Boston by 19.

Game 7, Bosh plays 31 minutes... 19 points, 8 rebounds, 1 block, 1 steal... 80% shooting.  Miami crushes Boston by 13.

There really was never any doubt who was winning that series.  Miami got a little lazy early in the series (as they did against the Pacers the round before)... but they closed it out when it mattered.  Think 2008 Boston vs Atlanta.  Did Atlanta really ever have a chance?  Naaahh....


Fact is, with a size-depleted team like Boston... an all-star big man tends to matter.  People undervaluing Bosh's impact are stupid.  Just stupid.  He mattered. 


Which brings me to our 1st round matchup against Atlanta last year.

Thank our lucky stars, we faced off against Atlanta without their best player... star big man Al Horford.

Horford had been out for 4 months... He missed the first 3 games of the series and Boston took a 2-1 lead.

Game 4, a very rusty Horford returned for a total of 20 minutes off the bench.  I don't count that.   Boston takes a 3-1 lead.

Game 5, Horford (have I mentioned he hadn't played in 4 months?) plays 41 minutes... goes 8-15 with 19 points, 11 rebounds, 3 assists, 3 blocks, 3 steals... Atlanta wins the game.

Game 6, Horford plays 46 minutes.  Goes 6-9, 15 points, 9 rebounds, 4 assists, 1 block, 1 steal... Boston squeaks by witha  3 point victory to close out the series.  Phew. 

Atlanta had home court advantage.  The next game would have been in Atlanta.   If we're playing the silly "If so-and-so was healthy" game, you have to play the same game for HOrford.  Had Horford been healthy for that entire series, we probably wouldn't have made it out of round 1.  Boston's weakness was (and continues to be) lack of size.

I don't think that any of us "stupid people" are claiming that a healthy Bosh for the entire series wouldn't have helped Miami's chances.  What we are saying is that a healthy Bradley would have helped ours. 

Personally, I'm not a fan of excuses.  We lost to the Heat.  I can deal with that, but I don't want to hear excuses about why the other team couldn't beat us more soundly.

Every team that doesn't win it all has excuses.  All in all, getting to a seventh game of the conference finals against the prohibitive favorites was a great result as far as I'm concerned.

The desperate attempts to try to minimize that accomplishment, frankly, just make you sound like you have some kind of axe to grind or like you are trying to re-write history to fit in with your own narrative.

I think the point LarBrd33 is trying to make is that Bosh would've have made more of a difference for Miami than Bradley would've made for us.  I think everyone here can agree that both guys being out hurt both teams.  It just so happened Miami got Bosh back, and we didn't get Bradley back.  Tough luck.

As far as excuses go, LarBrd33 is spot-on.  There are plenty people saying, "if Bradley was healthy, we win."  I'd argue that if Horford was healthy for our series with the Hawks (I'm talking the whole series), Atlanta wins.  I'd argue if Derrick Rose doesn't go down, we'd have lost to Chicago.  I'd also argue that if Ray doesn't have bone spurs, and if Zaza Pachulia (I think) doesn't trip Pierce and make him sprain his MCL, both those guys would've had a much larger impact in the playoffs, and would've been able to shoulder some of the load that Rondo and KG were forced to carry.

All in all, it doesn't really matter.  We lost to the Heat fair and square (yes, fair and square) and they won the title.  For the team we had last year, was that impressive?  Absolutely!  However, I was disappointed.  Ever since KG came here, it's been all about championships, and every year we don't win it all (until Pierce and KG retire/get traded), I'll be disappointed.

Yeah that's all I'm trying to say.  I'm not trying to minimize our accomplishment.  Taking Miami to 7 games was impressive.  Philly taking us to 7 games was impressive.  Still, Miami won.

It's a slippery slope... you start saying things like "We would have won with Bradley" and then you gotta go back and do revisionist history on every [dang] championship that ever happened... Like I'll be the first to say Boston would have repeated in 2009 had KG been healthy... or possibly won against the Lakers in 2010 had Perk not gone down... but then you have to acknowledge the fact that perhaps the Lakers knock us off in 2008 with a healthy Bynum.  Just a slippery slope... you don't wanna play this game.  Let's just say we were lucky to get as far as we did last year and leave it at that.

Close.  But, let's just say that we were good enough to get as far as we got last year and leave it at that.

Agreed... and even though Ray isn't with this team any more... I feel like this team is still good enough to beat Atlanta (without Horford) and Philly.  I'd go out on a limb and say Boston could beat those teams even without Rajon Rondo.

[tonyto3690]

Injuries go both ways.  But not all injuries are equal.

Last year Ray was hurt so bad he couldn't make free throws.
Last year Pierce was hurt so bad his max lift was about 2 inches.
Then of course Bradley (Wade stopper) was hurt and out of play.
Pietrus was a shell of himself battling injuries.
Stiemsma was dealing with foot issues all year.
Jeff Green wasn't even playing
Wilcox wasn't even playing
Jermaine wasn't even playing

I would gladly give them Bosh healthy if it meant even those top two players back, let alone all of our depth and role players AND Bradley.


They're the Heat so it's expected they get calls, but IIRC game 1-2-7 all had some seriously questionable officiating.  I also believe we had fourth quarter leads in all of those games.

Since 2008 this team has been decimated by terrible luck and unfortunate injuries.

[Celtics18]

nope. 

Also it kinda goes both ways... they could have theoretically beat us easily had bosh been healthy the whole series.  As soon as Bosh came back, Miami took care of business.

You need to clarify that statement.

I believe as soon as Bosh came back we won 2 in a row

Allow me to clarify the statement.

Bosh missed the first 4 games of the series... which was tied 2-2.

Game 5, Bosh played a mere 14 minutes off the bench for MIami.  I don't count that.  Boston won by 4.

Game 6, Bosh plays 28 minutes... has a weak game - 7 points, 6 rebounds 3 blocks 37% shooting ... Miami crushes Boston by 19.

Game 7, Bosh plays 31 minutes... 19 points, 8 rebounds, 1 block, 1 steal... 80% shooting.  Miami crushes Boston by 13.

There really was never any doubt who was winning that series.  Miami got a little lazy early in the series (as they did against the Pacers the round before)... but they closed it out when it mattered.  Think 2008 Boston vs Atlanta.  Did Atlanta really ever have a chance?  Naaahh....


Fact is, with a size-depleted team like Boston... an all-star big man tends to matter.  People undervaluing Bosh's impact are stupid.  Just stupid.  He mattered. 


Which brings me to our 1st round matchup against Atlanta last year.

Thank our lucky stars, we faced off against Atlanta without their best player... star big man Al Horford.

Horford had been out for 4 months... He missed the first 3 games of the series and Boston took a 2-1 lead.

Game 4, a very rusty Horford returned for a total of 20 minutes off the bench.  I don't count that.   Boston takes a 3-1 lead.

Game 5, Horford (have I mentioned he hadn't played in 4 months?) plays 41 minutes... goes 8-15 with 19 points, 11 rebounds, 3 assists, 3 blocks, 3 steals... Atlanta wins the game.

Game 6, Horford plays 46 minutes.  Goes 6-9, 15 points, 9 rebounds, 4 assists, 1 block, 1 steal... Boston squeaks by witha  3 point victory to close out the series.  Phew. 

Atlanta had home court advantage.  The next game would have been in Atlanta.   If we're playing the silly "If so-and-so was healthy" game, you have to play the same game for HOrford.  Had Horford been healthy for that entire series, we probably wouldn't have made it out of round 1.  Boston's weakness was (and continues to be) lack of size.

I don't think that any of us "stupid people" are claiming that a healthy Bosh for the entire series wouldn't have helped Miami's chances.  What we are saying is that a healthy Bradley would have helped ours. 

Personally, I'm not a fan of excuses.  We lost to the Heat.  I can deal with that, but I don't want to hear excuses about why the other team couldn't beat us more soundly.

Every team that doesn't win it all has excuses.  All in all, getting to a seventh game of the conference finals against the prohibitive favorites was a great result as far as I'm concerned.

The desperate attempts to try to minimize that accomplishment, frankly, just make you sound like you have some kind of axe to grind or like you are trying to re-write history to fit in with your own narrative.

I think the point LarBrd33 is trying to make is that Bosh would've have made more of a difference for Miami than Bradley would've made for us.  I think everyone here can agree that both guys being out hurt both teams.  It just so happened Miami got Bosh back, and we didn't get Bradley back.  Tough luck.

As far as excuses go, LarBrd33 is spot-on.  There are plenty people saying, "if Bradley was healthy, we win."  I'd argue that if Horford was healthy for our series with the Hawks (I'm talking the whole series), Atlanta wins.  I'd argue if Derrick Rose doesn't go down, we'd have lost to Chicago.  I'd also argue that if Ray doesn't have bone spurs, and if Zaza Pachulia (I think) doesn't trip Pierce and make him sprain his MCL, both those guys would've had a much larger impact in the playoffs, and would've been able to shoulder some of the load that Rondo and KG were forced to carry.

All in all, it doesn't really matter.  We lost to the Heat fair and square (yes, fair and square) and they won the title.  For the team we had last year, was that impressive?  Absolutely!  However, I was disappointed.  Ever since KG came here, it's been all about championships, and every year we don't win it all (until Pierce and KG retire/get traded), I'll be disappointed.

Yeah that's all I'm trying to say.  I'm not trying to minimize our accomplishment.  Taking Miami to 7 games was impressive.  Philly taking us to 7 games was impressive.  Still, Miami won.

It's a slippery slope... you start saying things like "We would have won with Bradley" and then you gotta go back and do revisionist history on every [dang] championship that ever happened... Like I'll be the first to say Boston would have repeated in 2009 had KG been healthy... or possibly won against the Lakers in 2010 had Perk not gone down... but then you have to acknowledge the fact that perhaps the Lakers knock us off in 2008 with a healthy Bynum.  Just a slippery slope... you don't wanna play this game.  Let's just say we were lucky to get as far as we did last year and leave it at that.

Close.  But, let's just say that we were good enough to get as far as we got last year and leave it at that.

Agreed... and even though Ray isn't with this team any more... I feel like this team is still good enough to beat Atlanta (without Horford) and Philly.  I'd go out on a limb and say Boston could beat those teams even without Rajon Rondo.

I agree with that.  I also think that if this year's team still had Rondo, we might be able to beat the Heat in a playoff series. 

And, I also think that last year's team may not have gotten by the Hawks and/or the Sixers without Rondo.