ESPN: Celtics really better without Rondo?

[BballTim]

Rondo can make most teams better,  there is no question about his ability , speed and play making IQ. 

TO me the it is clear , he does not play consistent (for what ever reason) , has become a diva or sorts and lazy on defense.

Being a GREAT PLAYER and NOT playing that way every game is two different things in the real world......Rondo has been exposed ...sorry folks ... 

Celtics are 100% better off with out Rondo , if the ball dominating diva shows up on the court .  He is not an asset to any team playing during one of his moody periods.

When Rondo plays as hard as Lee and AB night in and night out the Celtics COULD be better ,  but the fact is Rondo has not produced and played good team ball and his absence points directly to that.

  Rondo's "exposed" every year when the playoffs roll around. His "moody" periods are generally when he's playing through injuries. And if you watched the team last year the team got off to a terrible start, mainly because KG and PP were out of shape/injured. Those two started playing better around the time Rondo missed a few games due to injury. Their (and the team's) improvement was for reasons that had nothing to do with Rondo and weren't a sign he didn't fit in well with the team. They went on to play better ball when he came back and he led them on a deep playoff run.

  This year probably would have played out the same. If the other players had been playing as well on defense earlier in the year as they are now we'd have been a top 5-6 team in the league when Rondo went out instead of 20-23, but it took the players a while to figure out the system and how to work together.

[Meadowlark_Scal]

Well, big surprise.....guess what....only kg and a few others are consistantly solid....EVERYONE has a few off games....they are only people....you excuse pp when he is flat, and he can be VERY FLAT...you seem to hold Rondo to some other standard for some reason.....a standard you hold no one else to........that is odd....and another thing....COACHING is what is supposed to fix these simple things rondo doesn't do...and they are simple...his defense is....to steal, instruct him to stay in front of his man.....and look at the other perspective, we had to HIRE 5-6 other guards to fill rondos role...and it still isn't right....look at the turnovers on bringing the ball up...RONDO NEVER lost the DRIBBLE..not even while running it up...think about it....!

[traderondo]

This quote from the article is key:

"It's somewhat troubling in its own right that they've been able to replace an All-Star point guard so easily, but any notion that Rondo was holding back his Boston teammates overstates the case.

Up to this point, the debate has been "Are the celtics better without Rondo?"  I personally do not think we are, but that leads me to the next point.

Perhaps the real question is "Is Rondo more replaceable than we thought?"  I personally think he might be, and this 17 game sample and what remains of the season should be enough to definitively answer that question. I think Danny feels the same way which is why I expect that he will continue to shop Rondo once he is back.

The "is Rondo more replaceable than we thought" question is exactly what we need to be looking at.  The better/worse debate is almost a lost cause at this point.  TP

[BballTim]

This quote from the article is key:

"It's somewhat troubling in its own right that they've been able to replace an All-Star point guard so easily, but any notion that Rondo was holding back his Boston teammates overstates the case.

Up to this point, the debate has been "Are the celtics better without Rondo?"  I personally do not think we are, but that leads me to the next point.

Perhaps the real question is "Is Rondo more replaceable than we thought?"  I personally think he might be, and this 17 game sample and what remains of the season should be enough to definitively answer that question. I think Danny feels the same way which is why I expect that he will continue to shop Rondo once he is back.

The "is Rondo more replaceable than we thought" question is exactly what we need to be looking at.  The better/worse debate is almost a lost cause at this point.  TP

  Considering how much healthier we are than last year more success in the playoffs would probably help answer the questions.

[guava_wrench]

The problem with any of these hypothetical comparisons is that they don't really allow for a parallel possibility for improvement if Rondo had stayed healthy.  It's pretty cut and dry that the Celtics are playing better ball now than they were before he got hurt, but it's also reasonable to expect that the team would have figured out how to play with each other more effectively if he was still around.

In the end, just be happy that they are playing a good brand of basketball, and the season is not a lost cause.

The reality is, we can never "know". We can just try to understand like reasons based on the evidence. As fans, our opinions don't matter. On the other hand, Ainge has to try to understand what is going on to make the best moves for this team. His criteria isn't going to be one of surety. He will look at the data plus the qualitative analysis and decide if the Celtics are better off moving him.

If we look at the flow of the season, when Bradley came back, we had an immediate winning streak. Than we followed that with a pathetic losing streak. Then, Rondo goes down. Take away that losing streak and the narrative is just that Bradley was the difference maker. We would not be questioning Rondo's value so much. But, because of that losing streak, it seems as if we needed to ditch Rondo to get it together.

I'm not sure the evidence is strong enough to say we are better without Rondo, but it does seem to indicate that Bradley might be more of a difference maker for our team.

[Meadowlark_Scal]

The deal is Bradley is there to fix rondo's mistakes, and also to run with him...remember, bradley wasn't there all along with rondo...we would be soo much better with the TWO of them, and yes, doc can chime in and fix some of rondos mistakes, and then pp's worn out ISO's, bass lack of effort or consistancy, Greens reluctance, terry's shooting or defense, lee, crawford, or williams wildness or lack of knowing the D or the system......pick a player, name the imperfection.....except maybe KG....Rondo is still impossible to guard, no one steals it from him...and you can see PP is a bit jealous of him, as pp tries to do what rondo did....with bad results...pp is now a lame passer and ball handler compared to rondo....and pp doesn't like that green is coming on big.....you need to understand team and politics before you condemn rondo.....again, ask kobe who he wants on HIS team...think he knows more than you....too bad, becasue he does..!

[guava_wrench]

The deal is Bradley is there to fix rondo's mistakes, and also to run with him...remember, bradley wasn't there all along with rondo...we would be soo much better with the TWO of them, and yes, doc can chime in and fix some of rondos mistakes, and then pp's worn out ISO's, bass lack of effort or consistancy, Greens reluctance, terry's shooting or defense, lee, crawford, or williams wildness or lack of knowing the D or the system......pick a player, name the imperfection.....except maybe KG....Rondo is still impossible to guard, no one steals it from him...and you can see PP is a bit jealous of him, as pp tries to do what rondo did....with bad results...pp is now a lame passer and ball handler compared to rondo....and pp doesn't like that green is coming on big.....you need to understand team and politics before you condemn rondo.....again, ask kobe who he wants on HIS team...think he knows more than you....too bad, becasue he does..!

I agree with most of your points, but you sure do read a lot of drama into the situation. Are you Pierce's psychotherapist?

[Meadowlark_Scal]

Bradey doesmake  a difference, but not the kind to ditch rondo....he opens things up for rondo, would give rondo the running mate we had before...like TA used to do with rondo.....we didn't get rondo and brad together this year...but that is the combo that can help beat Miami....what would wade do.....brad all over him, rondo zipping by him.....= no chance....then body up on lebron....lebron still would be hard to cover with his body and his refs.....but he isn't as bright as he is capable, he is no jordon or bird, or magic...he is just more athletic....

[Lightskinsmurf]

This quote from the article is key:

"It's somewhat troubling in its own right that they've been able to replace an All-Star point guard so easily, but any notion that Rondo was holding back his Boston teammates overstates the case.

Up to this point, the debate has been "Are the celtics better without Rondo?"  I personally do not think we are, but that leads me to the next point.

Perhaps the real question is "Is Rondo more replaceable than we thought?"  I personally think he might be, and this 17 game sample and what remains of the season should be enough to definitively answer that question. I think Danny feels the same way which is why I expect that he will continue to shop Rondo once he is back.

The "is Rondo more replaceable than we thought" question is exactly what we need to be looking at.  The better/worse debate is almost a lost cause at this point.  TP

Yup, also, nice name lol.

[Meadowlark_Scal]

Did you not se last night, as the last 5 minutes or less, when green was right open in front of pp...and pp looked right at him.....needed to pass, but not to him...so he went up top, in a difficult way, to pass to kg...green had the open lane, from the elbow of the foul line..pp knew that....I play and coach on a team, and have for many years....i know what it means when one player "looks down" on another, as in, i know he is open but i am not passing to him......it is a preconcieved decision that is illustrated by the instinctual reaction....just like ray allen being jealous of rondo....i did not know that...but it now makes sense.....BIG players all have and need big egos.....they are good and bad...you think pp has no ego..?

[Lightskinsmurf]

Did you not se last night, as the last 5 minutes or less, when green was right open in front of pp...and pp looked right at him.....needed to pass, but not to him...so he went up top, in a difficult way, to pass to kg...green had the open lane, from the elbow of the foul line..pp knew that....I play and coach on a team, and have for many years....i know what it means when one player "looks down" on another, as in, i know he is open but i am not passing to him......it is a preconcieved decision that is illustrated by the instinctual reaction....just like ray allen being jealous of rondo....i did not know that...but it now makes sense.....BIG players all have and need big egos.....they are good and bad...you think pp has no ego..?

Yeah that was horrible man. I almost ripped pierces head off for that but since we won I sort of let it go. Still, that was absolutely terrible. Of course pierce has an ego.

[Meadowlark_Scal]

BUT..i don't claim to KNOW any of this.....I just saw things....that are maybe familiar to what i knew in other places..but Ray Allen DID say that himself...and player DO have big ego's, and need them...but they don't like it when the new guy comes in and starts to take their place....even if they help him, they still want to be THE GO TO GUY....but they cannt be forever....did you see green do that elbow shot pp loves.....same place, same money.....no one likes to be replaced..!

[Meadowlark_Scal]

Did you not se last night, as the last 5 minutes or less, when green was right open in front of pp...and pp looked right at him.....needed to pass, but not to him...so he went up top, in a difficult way, to pass to kg...green had the open lane, from the elbow of the foul line..pp knew that....I play and coach on a team, and have for many years....i know what it means when one player "looks down" on another, as in, i know he is open but i am not passing to him......it is a preconcieved decision that is illustrated by the instinctual reaction....just like ray allen being jealous of rondo....i did not know that...but it now makes sense.....BIG players all have and need big egos.....they are good and bad...you think pp has no ego..?

Yeah that was horrible man. I almost ripped pierces head off for that but since we won I sort of let it go. Still, that was absolutely terrible. Of course pierce has an ego.

yup, tp for that...glad you saw it also....that was an easy 2 for green...that lane was soooo open, and green and pp had eye contact...greens hands were like....okay man, give it to me.....there was no defense left or right for 5 feet...and only 10 feet to the rim.....green gets to the rim FAST.....kg took a tough shot and missed...i love pp....he is still the captain, and deserves it...but a player must adjust to life below the rim, and as a veteran....and not let his ego cost the team....it is tough to do.

[Meadowlark_Scal]

That is one reason Rondo is worth keeping, he has a lifetime opportunity to see how life would be without him...as in "It is a wonderful life"    doc has some responsibility in Rondo's shortcomings too...he IS the coach....make it so that you expect SOMETHING from your leaders....COACH......ect....! Maybe Rondo can adjust to move the ball up faster, really cover his man.....ect...

[Meadowlark_Scal]

Besides, you cannot directly say we are better without rondo, the only way you could just say that is...IF all things stayed the same...we lost rondo, added NO ONE, then went on to win lots.....that didn't happen, a lot of things changed also...a lot of additions and subtractions....a REAL LOT of players were exchanged....!!!