(Merged) Celtics better with/without Rondo debate

[Lightskinsmurf]

Rondo does fit this type of system. We have seen it plenty of times, particularly in his early career. Have no clue why they went away from it, particularly as he's been improving his off-the-ball skills, especially his shooting.

We saw it a lot in pre-season too, then regular season started and all we had been seeing from this team went to the trash can for no apparent reason.

Rondo just isn't a spark plug. There aren't that many around the League. Bradley is probably one of if not the best on the ball defender in the League. He is a bottle of that 4 hr energizer stuff. That can't be taught. Usually one can be found in the 6th roster spot and they give off extra spurts of liveliness whereas Bradley does it as a starter and is not limited to defense. It's getting contagious.

  Yes, Rondo's never been known as a spark plug. That's why we've been hearing "Rondo is the straw that stirs the drink" and "as Rondo goes, so goes the Celtics" for years.
[/quote]

Rondo has the keys to the car "The ball" and he has it all the time. So if rondo doesn't play well, its kind of hard to overcome that.

[erisred]

The funny thing is that Danny Ainge just comes out and laughs when he sees people saying the Celtics are better without Rondo than with him. Its Ainge that states the better overall team play has to do more with certain players getting acclimated and healthy and out of slumps and into their roles than it does Rondo not being there.

And that is probably more true than not. However, Danny would never, never, say anything that would lower Rondo's market value either.

[ssspence]

So why does the Cs offense show no ill effects, and actually some improvement, since he left the line up? How do they miss him? What has the team lacked without him?

You use the phrase "fact of the matter" in your post. The fact is they haven't missed him statistically, and his absence obviously hasn't hurt their ability to win (or not lose) games.

So can you offer some basic, factual explanation of how the Celtics have been in any way adversely effected by his injury?

Just point to a high level area or catagory. Anything.

  I think you're missing my point. Aside from Rondo our top 5 scorers are Pierce, KG, Green, Terry and Bradley. Pierce is playing better than he was in January, presumably because his pinched nerve is less of a problem. Terry is playing better than he was in January because he was struggling with a knee injury for a while. Bradley's playing better because he was out for so long and had a rib injury. Green's playing better because he's healthier and more comfortable, and his shooting percentages have been increasing significantly as the season's progressed.

  So with Rondo out we've only played about 2 out of 16 games against top 10 defenses and 4 of our top 5 offensive players are playing noticeably better than they were before. Considering that we were a top 10 offense in November we should be well above that now. We're not. With the other players playing at the level they are now *with* Rondo we would be.

I'm not missing the point at all. Stop making excuses and answer the question directly.

What have the 2012-13 Boston Celtics lacked without Rondo?

[badshar]

The point of this thread is?

If you want to trade Rondo just because of this, then now I am able to understand why other teams fan often make of us. Seriously, it seems some fans use no logic when saying somethings. So what if we have a better record? So what if everyone is getting the ball? Was Rondo not playing last year? Was he not playing the year before? Don't give me that nonsense that at that time, he was more a team player, because by 2010-11 season, he began to dominate the ball.

Seriously, use some logic. Tomorrow, if LeBron gets injured and Heat somehow have a better record than they had with LeBron, would they trade LeBron too? According to many idiots over here, yes they would.

Use your brain.

[ssspence]

Use your brain.

You know this is celticsblog, right?   

[badshar]

Use your brain.

You know this is celticsblog, right?   

Oh haha, I think I forgot!

[CelticConcourse]

Use your brain.

You know this is celticsblog, right?   

Oh haha, I think I forgot!

  Funny.

If RONDO came back now, we'd probably get a 40-60 chance of beating the heat instead of 1-99...

[eugen]

The point of this thread is?

If you want to trade Rondo just because of this, then now I am able to understand why other teams fan often make of us. Seriously, it seems some fans use no logic when saying somethings. So what if we have a better record? So what if everyone is getting the ball? Was Rondo not playing last year? Was he not playing the year before? Don't give me that nonsense

Of course there is a sense...During big 3 dynasty, in 5 years this team won only 1 title (I would say the minimum possible). Comparing to San Antonio big3 dynasty, they got 3 championships. So, do you see the difference? Yes, imagine if you have Westbrook instead of Rondo or CP3 instead of Rondo. So? I am sure with another playmaker like Westbrook (much better than Rondo) Cs will during big 3 dynasty at least 3 championship. In my opinion this score of this year, 12-4 when Rondo is out, tells that he is not a real big start that can bring you a championship, and he of course is overrated point guard. To traded or not is not my job, but at least be fair and except the reality.

[ssspence]

Use your brain.

You know this is celticsblog, right?   

Oh haha, I think I forgot!

  Funny.

If RONDO came back now, we'd probably get a 40-60 chance of beating the heat instead of 1-99...

I'd agree they stand a better chance with Rondo, but i think your 'con Rondo' odds need a a major reality check...

[BballTim]

So why does the Cs offense show no ill effects, and actually some improvement, since he left the line up? How do they miss him? What has the team lacked without him?

You use the phrase "fact of the matter" in your post. The fact is they haven't missed him statistically, and his absence obviously hasn't hurt their ability to win (or not lose) games.

So can you offer some basic, factual explanation of how the Celtics have been in any way adversely effected by his injury?

Just point to a high level area or catagory. Anything.

  I think you're missing my point. Aside from Rondo our top 5 scorers are Pierce, KG, Green, Terry and Bradley. Pierce is playing better than he was in January, presumably because his pinched nerve is less of a problem. Terry is playing better than he was in January because he was struggling with a knee injury for a while. Bradley's playing better because he was out for so long and had a rib injury. Green's playing better because he's healthier and more comfortable, and his shooting percentages have been increasing significantly as the season's progressed.

  So with Rondo out we've only played about 2 out of 16 games against top 10 defenses and 4 of our top 5 offensive players are playing noticeably better than they were before. Considering that we were a top 10 offense in November we should be well above that now. We're not. With the other players playing at the level they are now *with* Rondo we would be.

I'm not missing the point at all. Stop making excuses and answer the question directly.

What have the 2012-13 Boston Celtics lacked without Rondo?

  Being one of the best offenses in the league when the offense is firing on all cylinders. And clearly you're missing the point.

  To put it another way, imagine a player who twists his ankle and hobbles around on the court until the next time out. They take his shoe off and tape up his ankle so he can run fine but put the wrong size shoe back on his foot. He can barely run in the too tight shoe but you keep telling him he doesn't need a different shoe because he's running a little bit faster than he was with the twisted ankle.

[badshar]

The point of this thread is?

If you want to trade Rondo just because of this, then now I am able to understand why other teams fan often make of us. Seriously, it seems some fans use no logic when saying somethings. So what if we have a better record? So what if everyone is getting the ball? Was Rondo not playing last year? Was he not playing the year before? Don't give me that nonsense

Of course there is a sense...During big 3 dynasty, in 5 years this team won only 1 title (I would say the minimum possible). Comparing to San Antonio big3 dynasty, they got 3 championships. So, do you see the difference? Yes, imagine if you have Westbrook instead of Rondo or CP3 instead of Rondo. So? I am sure with another playmaker like Westbrook (much better than Rondo) Cs will during big 3 dynasty at least 3 championship. In my opinion this score of this year, 12-4 when Rondo is out, tells that he is not a real big start that can bring you a championship, and he of course is overrated point guard. To traded or not is not my job, but at least be fair and except the reality.

Dude, you just completely ignored the fact that KG got injured and the injury took a big hit on the team.

Westbrook? You want Westbrook? Do you even watch his playing style?

He wants to be the hero all the time. Why do you think he got benched in the PLAYOFFS? He was taking way too many shots. You're saying you want that player on the Celtics who wants to be the hero at all times and will do anything to become one? He will completely ruin the team.

Also, did you completely ignore that we always had some sort of injury that held us short?

2009 - KG's injury
2010 - Perkins' injury
2011 - Rondo's injury
2012 - Pierce and Allen injured and a bench that scores a grand total of 2 points
2013 - Rondo is already down and the championship chances have taken a very big hit.

Also, did you completely ignore the fact that Rondo tore his ACL?

So if we had Westbrook, he would not have tore his ACL because he is Westbrook?

We are lucky Rondo had only partial tear, if it was Westbrook he would be in the same position as Derrick Rose. His playing style would completely rip apart the ACL if it comes down to it.


Again, let's use the brain a bit and stop making ignorant and stupid arguments.

By the way, did you honestly just say Westbrook is better playmaker than Rondo?

Rondo - Attacks the basket and scores at will and sets up people at will.

Westbrook - Looks mainly to attack and often hogs the ball. If he is unable to attack, he just passes it to the person close to him other than on rare occasions when he finds someone open for a good shot.

Lastly, just because our opinions don't match doesn't mean I am not accepting some sort of reality.

[Clench123]

The point of this thread is?

If you want to trade Rondo just because of this, then now I am able to understand why other teams fan often make of us. Seriously, it seems some fans use no logic when saying somethings. So what if we have a better record? So what if everyone is getting the ball? Was Rondo not playing last year? Was he not playing the year before? Don't give me that nonsense

Of course there is a sense...During big 3 dynasty, in 5 years this team won only 1 title (I would say the minimum possible). Comparing to San Antonio big3 dynasty, they got 3 championships. So, do you see the difference? Yes, imagine if you have Westbrook instead of Rondo or CP3 instead of Rondo. So? I am sure with another playmaker like Westbrook (much better than Rondo) Cs will during big 3 dynasty at least 3 championship. In my opinion this score of this year, 12-4 when Rondo is out, tells that he is not a real big start that can bring you a championship, and he of course is overrated point guard. To traded or not is not my job, but at least be fair and except the reality.

I'm surprised people are still responding to you.  Unbelievable

Go[dang], I just did too.

[badshar]

So why does the Cs offense show no ill effects, and actually some improvement, since he left the line up? How do they miss him? What has the team lacked without him?

You use the phrase "fact of the matter" in your post. The fact is they haven't missed him statistically, and his absence obviously hasn't hurt their ability to win (or not lose) games.

So can you offer some basic, factual explanation of how the Celtics have been in any way adversely effected by his injury?

Just point to a high level area or catagory. Anything.

  I think you're missing my point. Aside from Rondo our top 5 scorers are Pierce, KG, Green, Terry and Bradley. Pierce is playing better than he was in January, presumably because his pinched nerve is less of a problem. Terry is playing better than he was in January because he was struggling with a knee injury for a while. Bradley's playing better because he was out for so long and had a rib injury. Green's playing better because he's healthier and more comfortable, and his shooting percentages have been increasing significantly as the season's progressed.

  So with Rondo out we've only played about 2 out of 16 games against top 10 defenses and 4 of our top 5 offensive players are playing noticeably better than they were before. Considering that we were a top 10 offense in November we should be well above that now. We're not. With the other players playing at the level they are now *with* Rondo we would be.

I'm not missing the point at all. Stop making excuses and answer the question directly.

What have the 2012-13 Boston Celtics lacked without Rondo?

The 2012-13 Boston Celtics have lacked a player who draws the defense and multiple defenders to him to allow other players on the team to get open for an easy jumper, layup or dunk.

[CelticConcourse]

So why does the Cs offense show no ill effects, and actually some improvement, since he left the line up? How do they miss him? What has the team lacked without him?

You use the phrase "fact of the matter" in your post. The fact is they haven't missed him statistically, and his absence obviously hasn't hurt their ability to win (or not lose) games.

So can you offer some basic, factual explanation of how the Celtics have been in any way adversely effected by his injury?

Just point to a high level area or catagory. Anything.

  I think you're missing my point. Aside from Rondo our top 5 scorers are Pierce, KG, Green, Terry and Bradley. Pierce is playing better than he was in January, presumably because his pinched nerve is less of a problem. Terry is playing better than he was in January because he was struggling with a knee injury for a while. Bradley's playing better because he was out for so long and had a rib injury. Green's playing better because he's healthier and more comfortable, and his shooting percentages have been increasing significantly as the season's progressed.

  So with Rondo out we've only played about 2 out of 16 games against top 10 defenses and 4 of our top 5 offensive players are playing noticeably better than they were before. Considering that we were a top 10 offense in November we should be well above that now. We're not. With the other players playing at the level they are now *with* Rondo we would be.

I'm not missing the point at all. Stop making excuses and answer the question directly.

What have the 2012-13 Boston Celtics lacked without Rondo?

The 2012-13 Boston Celtics have lacked a player who draws the defense and multiple defenders to him to allow other players on the team to get open for an easy jumper, layup or dunk.

Pierce and KG do, at times.

[Tr1boy]

Like i have said , we are a better team. If with rondo the defense was a 7 and offense was a 7 (man at times did we struggle to score), without rondo our defense is a 9 (backcourt defense a 10) and offense is a 8.