Author Topic: (Merged) Celtics better with/without Rondo debate  (Read 36908 times)

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(Merged) Celtics better with/without Rondo debate
« on: March 06, 2013, 10:11:46 AM »

Offline eugen

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With Rondo 20-23, without Rondo 13-4. This was told yesterday at NBA Game Time on TNT. Mention that Cs know move better the ball ad get better % on FG
« Last Edit: March 06, 2013, 09:34:45 PM by eugen »

Re: (Merged) Celtics better with/without Rondo debate
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2013, 10:13:53 AM »

Offline Moranis

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and there are starting to be enough games where it isn't an aberration.  Boston really does seem to play better as a team without Rondo. 

That said, they aren't winning a title without Rondo and if they can get Rondo to fit into this type of system (rather than building a system around Rondo), the future will be brighter than I thought it would be. 
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Re: (Merged) Celtics better with/without Rondo debate
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2013, 10:14:05 AM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

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With Rondo 20-23, without Rondo 12-4. This was told yesterday at NBA Game Time on TNT. Mention that Cs know move better the ball ad get better % on FG

Why do you need TNT to come up with this little gem? We kinda discuss this just about every hour on CelticsBlog.

Re: (Merged) Celtics better with/without Rondo debate
« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2013, 10:15:41 AM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

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and there are starting to be enough games where it isn't an aberration.  Boston really does seem to play better as a team without Rondo. 

That said, they aren't winning a title without Rondo and if they can get Rondo to fit into this type of system (rather than building a system around Rondo), the future will be brighter than I thought it would be.

Rondo does fit this type of system. We have seen it plenty of times, particularly in his early career. Have no clue why they went away from it, particularly as he's been improving his off-the-ball skills, especially his shooting.

We saw it a lot in pre-season too, then regular season started and all we had been seeing from this team went to the trash can for no apparent reason.

Re: (Merged) Celtics better with/without Rondo debate
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2013, 10:16:42 AM »

Offline Lightskinsmurf

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and there are starting to be enough games where it isn't an aberration.  Boston really does seem to play better as a team without Rondo. 

That said, they aren't winning a title without Rondo and if they can get Rondo to fit into this type of system (rather than building a system around Rondo), the future will be brighter than I thought it would be.

I didn't think they were winning one with him. Not the way they were playing.

Re: (Merged) Celtics better with/without Rondo debate
« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2013, 10:18:48 AM »

Online Boston Garden Leprechaun

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and there are starting to be enough games where it isn't an aberration.  Boston really does seem to play better as a team without Rondo. 

That said, they aren't winning a title without Rondo and if they can get Rondo to fit into this type of system (rather than building a system around Rondo), the future will be brighter than I thought it would be.

yep. when rondo comes back we keep it the same way as it is now. BALL MOVEMENT by everybody. no rondo hogging the ball. let others create. that way rondo can spend more time cutting to the basket scoring among other things. make the other team defend all 5 players from everywhere. nobody cares about rondos jumper. that needs to change.
LET'S GO CELTICS!

Re: (Merged) Celtics better with/without Rondo debate
« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2013, 10:19:24 AM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

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and there are starting to be enough games where it isn't an aberration.  Boston really does seem to play better as a team without Rondo. 

That said, they aren't winning a title without Rondo and if they can get Rondo to fit into this type of system (rather than building a system around Rondo), the future will be brighter than I thought it would be.

I didn't think they were winning one with him. Not the way they were playing.

That's the crux of it with these types of arguments, everyone likes to extrapolate about a team clearly underperforming and how they'll perform in the playoffs... it's a bad habit.

Re: (Merged) Celtics better with/without Rondo debate
« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2013, 10:19:58 AM »

Offline Lightskinsmurf

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and there are starting to be enough games where it isn't an aberration.  Boston really does seem to play better as a team without Rondo. 

That said, they aren't winning a title without Rondo and if they can get Rondo to fit into this type of system (rather than building a system around Rondo), the future will be brighter than I thought it would be.

yep. when rondo comes back we keep it the same way as it is now. BALL MOVEMENT by everybody. no rondo hogging the ball. let others create. that way rondo can spend more time cutting to the basket scoring among other things. make the other team defend all 5 players from everywhere. nobody cares about rondos jumper. that needs to change.

Can rondo dominate without the ball being in his hands all the time tho?

Re: (Merged) Celtics better with/without Rondo debate
« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2013, 10:26:02 AM »

Offline eugen

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With Rondo 20-23, without Rondo 12-4. This was told yesterday at NBA Game Time on TNT. Mention that Cs know move better the ball ad get better % on FG

Why do you need TNT to come up with this little gem? We kinda discuss this just about every hour on CelticsBlog.

Are jealous about TNT? ::) Instead of doing that, I strongly suggest you to analyze the statistics, not making bla bla bla. Do not destroy topics please.

Re: (Merged) Celtics better with/without Rondo debate
« Reply #9 on: March 06, 2013, 10:28:08 AM »

Offline Snakehead

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With Rondo 20-23, without Rondo 12-4. This was told yesterday at NBA Game Time on TNT. Mention that Cs know move better the ball ad get better % on FG

Why do you need TNT to come up with this little gem? We kinda discuss this just about every hour on CelticsBlog.

Are jealous about TNT? ::) Instead of doing that, I strongly suggest you to analyze the statistics, not making bla bla bla. Do not destroy topics please.

I think he's just saying this is being discussed in just about every thread, even one that's supposed to be about Avery Bradley right now.



and there are starting to be enough games where it isn't an aberration.  Boston really does seem to play better as a team without Rondo. 

That said, they aren't winning a title without Rondo and if they can get Rondo to fit into this type of system (rather than building a system around Rondo), the future will be brighter than I thought it would be.

yep. when rondo comes back we keep it the same way as it is now. BALL MOVEMENT by everybody. no rondo hogging the ball. let others create. that way rondo can spend more time cutting to the basket scoring among other things. make the other team defend all 5 players from everywhere. nobody cares about rondos jumper. that needs to change.

Can rondo dominate without the ball being in his hands all the time tho?


We've had great teams with this apparently bad formula of Rondo dominating the ball.  I like the movement now and I think Rondo can fit into it, why wouldn't he?
"I really don't want people to understand me." - Jordan Crawford

Re: (Merged) Celtics better with/without Rondo debate
« Reply #10 on: March 06, 2013, 10:36:25 AM »

Offline Lightskinsmurf

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[/quote]

Can rondo dominate without the ball being in his hands all the time tho?
[/quote]


We've had great teams with this apparently bad formula of Rondo dominating the ball.  I like the movement now and I think Rondo can fit into it, why wouldn't he?
[/quote]

GREAT teams? We've had good teams not great. There's a difference between good and great by the way. Also those teams ain't this team. People can't seem to grasp that simple concept. Rondo dominating the ball might work with certain groups of players but it doesn't work well with this one.

Re: (Merged) Celtics better with/without Rondo debate
« Reply #11 on: March 06, 2013, 10:38:18 AM »

Offline Fafnir

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Since Rondo's ACL injury the C's are:

Shooting .6% better on 2 point shots
Shooting 3.5% better on 3 point shots
Taking a higher ratio of 3s to 2s.
Also turning it over slightly less as a team.
Our FTAs to FGAs is essentially the same
Our FT% is essentially the same.
Our pace has increased roughly 1 possession per game.

Edit:
Our rebounding on both ends declined. (That's Sullinger more than Rondo, though Rondo going out hurts that aspect too)
« Last Edit: March 06, 2013, 10:49:05 AM by Fafnir »

Re: (Merged) Celtics better with/without Rondo debate
« Reply #12 on: March 06, 2013, 10:39:42 AM »

Offline Lightskinsmurf

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Since Rondo's ACL injury the C's are:

Shooting .6% better on 2 point shots
Shooting 3.5% better on 3 point shots
Taking a higher ratio of 3s to 2s.
Also turning it over slightly less as a team.
Our FTAs to FGAs is essentially the same
Our FT% is essentially the same.
Our pace has increased roughly 1 possession per game.

And our defense? Better right?

Re: (Merged) Celtics better with/without Rondo debate
« Reply #13 on: March 06, 2013, 10:41:47 AM »

Offline Snakehead

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Can rondo dominate without the ball being in his hands all the time tho?
[/quote]


We've had great teams with this apparently bad formula of Rondo dominating the ball.  I like the movement now and I think Rondo can fit into it, why wouldn't he?
[/quote]

GREAT teams? We've had good teams not great. There's a difference between good and great by the way. Also those teams ain't this team. People can't seem to grasp that simple concept. Rondo dominating the ball might work with certain groups of players but it doesn't work well with this one.
[/quote]

What concept are you saying I can't grasp?

The Celtics teams of the last few years have been pretty great teams.

This teams woes this year were not just on Rondo's play.  It was the whole team.  People are fabricating things to support the claim, like saying our pace is so much faster and when fast break more when we really don't and we're playing at the same pace.

I think Rondo should adapt to playing more off the ball, it would allow him to increase scoring which would be great.



Since Rondo's ACL injury the C's are:

Shooting .6% better on 2 point shots
Shooting 3.5% better on 3 point shots
Taking a higher ratio of 3s to 2s.
Also turning it over slightly less as a team.
Our FTAs to FGAs is essentially the same
Our FT% is essentially the same.
Our pace has increased roughly 1 possession per game.

And our defense? Better right?

And this coincided more with Avery Bradley coming back than Rondo being injured.
"I really don't want people to understand me." - Jordan Crawford

Re: (Merged) Celtics better with/without Rondo debate
« Reply #14 on: March 06, 2013, 10:44:03 AM »

Offline Lightskinsmurf

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Our defense being better had alot to do with bradley AND Lee replacing rondo in the starting lineup.