Author Topic: The NBA's top 10 PG's according to SI (Rondo is number 6)  (Read 24269 times)

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Re: The NBA's top 10 PG's according to SI (Rondo is number 6)
« Reply #30 on: March 04, 2013, 12:55:53 PM »

Offline Banner18now!

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The pundits will never have him in the top 3 because he doesnt score as much as other guards who are really 2 guards playing the point. In true fashion of a PG Rondo is top 3  in the league.

Re: The NBA's top 10 PG's according to SI (Rondo is number 6)
« Reply #31 on: March 04, 2013, 01:00:32 PM »

Offline pearljammer10

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The pundits will never have him in the top 3 because he doesnt score as much as other guards who are really 2 guards playing the point. In true fashion of a PG Rondo is top 3  in the league.

This is my argument as well. Are Westbrook and maybe Irving more talented than Rondo? Sure. Is Rondo a better point guard? absolutely.

Re: The NBA's top 10 PG's according to SI (Rondo is number 6)
« Reply #32 on: March 04, 2013, 01:05:20 PM »

Offline CelticG1

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I just don't get how you can have the league leader for Assists that high (or low, either way you say it) if we are ranking the PG position.

Oh well though.

Poor FG shooter,, shaq-like FT shooter. He's a liability in the 4th, where the others are assets.


Rondo Career fg%: 48%

Chris Paul: 47%

Westbrook: 43%

Kyrie Irving: 475

Rose: 46%

Tony Parker : 49%


Seems like his FG% is on par with these guys.
Sure but if you look at Points Per Shot, Rondo is way down that list (this year)

Rondo 1.12
Westbrook 1.25
Irving 1.27
Parker 1.35
Paul 1.37

Those guys all shoot more shots than Rondo, which negatively affects a percentage.  They are also their teams #1 or #2 scoring option, which means they don't get nearly as many open looks and often have forced time expiring type shots that Rondo doesn't get. 

I mean Serge Ibaka shoots 56%.  Would anyone call him a better shooter than Kevin Durant who shoots 51%?

I think its more that its just been exaggerated a bit. Plus the numbers, you can look at stats in so many ways to fit your arguement. There are always counters to everything.

Its ridiculous to think that Rondo is a liability in the 4th q tho. Hes one of the only guys in the game that can dominate a 4th quarter with scoring, rebounds, passing and or defense. Ive seen him.

Its not all the time but generally in big games he can piece together at least 2 of those attributes when most players only have a couple of those attributes to begin with.

Certainly not ridiculous. Rondo's effect on team offense in the 4th is a relevant comparison issue. But I think you're right to avoid statistic spin -- let's use real world situations to add color to the point.

If Paul, Curry, Irving, Parker, etc were on the Cs, do you think the only Cs play we'd see for their last shot (almost literally) is the Pierce iso fadeaway? Considering Doc's reputation for designing situational plays -- and how easy this one is for opposing teams to predict and defend -- I doubt it.

And if any of those same players were Celtics, do you think 9 times out of 10 they would be the inbounder out of 4th Q time outs? Not likely, because they're threats from further than 10 feet, and therefore require defensive attention on the perimeter, opening up subsequent options for themselves and other players. Rondo doesn't (and fears foul shooting), so he tends to draw that job. 

Rondo's offensive deficiencies should be considered objectively in the overall pluses and minuses of his game, not ignored. And these elements became harder to disguise without a lethal catch-and-shoot motion guy like Ray Allen on the team.

I think 6th is pretty good for a guy who shoots less than 25% from 3, and less than 65% from the FT line.

I didnt say he was a world beater and clutch player in the 4th. Your the one that is going to the extreme stating that he is a liability in the 4th.

But now you arent even talking about the 4th you are talking about the last 10 seconds of the 4th and not only that you are talking about him taking a last second shot.

Just stick to one arguement. Do I want him taking a last second shot? No. Do I think other pgs are better than him with 10 seconds left? Yeah some. Doesnt mean hes a liability in the 4th though.

Just say hes a poor ft and 3 pointer shooter. Hes not even bad at the mid range game if you go by the numbers. I mean I can even make a better argument for him being a liability in the 4th than you are

Re: The NBA's top 10 PG's according to SI (Rondo is number 6)
« Reply #33 on: March 04, 2013, 01:09:38 PM »

Offline BballTim

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The writer lost all credibility with me, putting Westbrook at #3.

You know who Westbrook would be if he didn't play with Durant?  Monta Ellis.  That's right, I said Monta Ellis.  An unconscionable chucker, who brings little else to the game.

CP3 and Parker, I'll concede are, at this very moment, a slight notch above Rondo.  They are close enough in playmaking ability, that their obviously better ability to score, gives them the edge.  Irving probably will be better shortly, but isn't at moment.  Rose, I'd put on par with Rondo.  Rose is immensely better as a scorer, Rondo is immensely better as a play maker.

Ultimately, the writer seems to place higher value on scoring ability (as do many).  From the PG position, I do not.

Don't see a problem with Monta Ellis, but you can add defense + superior rebounding, and in the end, better passer too.

CP3 and Parker are more than a slight notch above Rondo at the moment. I'd say Irving is definitely better than Rondo at the moment. And Rose once again quite better than Rondo, but asterisk right now because of the ACL.

Don't see the problem with putting high value on scoring ability, and Rondo needs to do a lot more and better of the other things if he wants to be considered above any of the other players. He just isn't, in particular on how he's played this year, and the inconsistent effort he brought this year, and his deteriorated defense, which wasn't good as far as I'm concerned anyways.

  Rondo does a lot more things a lot better than most of the other players on the list. Did you watch Curry play against the Celts the other night? I'm not talking about his poor shooting night, but the fact that when he's not scoring he does little if anything to help the team. Same with players like Westbrook. Rose isn't as bad but it's a similar situation. Same for Irving.

  If those guys didn't shoot any more often than Rondo and gave you 8 or so fewer points a game they'd all be below average point guards. If they shot as often as Rondo and weren't better shooters or ft shooters than Rondo they'd be lucky to be starters. The difference between Rondo and those point guards in non-scoring skills is the difference between a top point guard and a below average player. It's that significant.

  The writer puts Irving, who's the one of the best scoring point guards and best clutch scorers around pretty much neck and neck with Rondo. Figure out the difference in impact that you think Irving's scoring has versus Rondo's "being a liability". That's the magnitude of difference in Rondo's favor in the other aspects of their games.

Re: The NBA's top 10 PG's according to SI (Rondo is number 6)
« Reply #34 on: March 04, 2013, 01:15:51 PM »

Offline CelticG1

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Kinda funny looking at Ray Allens stats.

Hes shooting worse this year in over all and 3 point percentage than the last two years. This while taking less shots which apparently according to the Rondo rule the less shots you take the higher your percentage will be.

This while everyone was talking about all the open looks hed get

Seems like he was better and more efficient with Rondo even while shooting more shots and playing a whopping 10-12 more minutes

Re: The NBA's top 10 PG's according to SI (Rondo is number 6)
« Reply #35 on: March 04, 2013, 01:31:33 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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The writer lost all credibility with me, putting Westbrook at #3.

You know who Westbrook would be if he didn't play with Durant?  Monta Ellis.  That's right, I said Monta Ellis.  An unconscionable chucker, who brings little else to the game.

CP3 and Parker, I'll concede are, at this very moment, a slight notch above Rondo.  They are close enough in playmaking ability, that their obviously better ability to score, gives them the edge.  Irving probably will be better shortly, but isn't at moment.  Rose, I'd put on par with Rondo.  Rose is immensely better as a scorer, Rondo is immensely better as a play maker.

Ultimately, the writer seems to place higher value on scoring ability (as do many).  From the PG position, I do not.

Don't see a problem with Monta Ellis, but you can add defense + superior rebounding, and in the end, better passer too.

CP3 and Parker are more than a slight notch above Rondo at the moment. I'd say Irving is definitely better than Rondo at the moment. And Rose once again quite better than Rondo, but asterisk right now because of the ACL.

Don't see the problem with putting high value on scoring ability, and Rondo needs to do a lot more and better of the other things if he wants to be considered above any of the other players. He just isn't, in particular on how he's played this year, and the inconsistent effort he brought this year, and his deteriorated defense, which wasn't good as far as I'm concerned anyways.

  Rondo does a lot more things a lot better than most of the other players on the list. Did you watch Curry play against the Celts the other night? I'm not talking about his poor shooting night, but the fact that when he's not scoring he does little if anything to help the team. Same with players like Westbrook. Rose isn't as bad but it's a similar situation. Same for Irving.

  If those guys didn't shoot any more often than Rondo and gave you 8 or so fewer points a game they'd all be below average point guards. If they shot as often as Rondo and weren't better shooters or ft shooters than Rondo they'd be lucky to be starters. The difference between Rondo and those point guards in non-scoring skills is the difference between a top point guard and a below average player. It's that significant.

  The writer puts Irving, who's the one of the best scoring point guards and best clutch scorers around pretty much neck and neck with Rondo. Figure out the difference in impact that you think Irving's scoring has versus Rondo's "being a liability". That's the magnitude of difference in Rondo's favor in the other aspects of their games.

As far as walking triple-double threat, it's Rondo and Westbrook far ahead of the rest, but I'd probably give the edge to Westbrook since, like Rose before the ACL, he's still a few years away from his prime--whereas I believe that, at this point, we've seen Rondo's ceiling (a performance like Game 2 of the ECF).
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: The NBA's top 10 PG's according to SI (Rondo is number 6)
« Reply #36 on: March 04, 2013, 01:41:04 PM »

Offline lightspeed5

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i dont think tony parker is better than rondo.

Re: The NBA's top 10 PG's according to SI (Rondo is number 6)
« Reply #37 on: March 04, 2013, 01:58:28 PM »

Offline ssspence

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I just don't get how you can have the league leader for Assists that high (or low, either way you say it) if we are ranking the PG position.

Oh well though.

Poor FG shooter,, shaq-like FT shooter. He's a liability in the 4th, where the others are assets.


Rondo Career fg%: 48%

Chris Paul: 47%

Westbrook: 43%

Kyrie Irving: 475

Rose: 46%

Tony Parker : 49%


Seems like his FG% is on par with these guys.
Sure but if you look at Points Per Shot, Rondo is way down that list (this year)

Rondo 1.12
Westbrook 1.25
Irving 1.27
Parker 1.35
Paul 1.37

Those guys all shoot more shots than Rondo, which negatively affects a percentage.  They are also their teams #1 or #2 scoring option, which means they don't get nearly as many open looks and often have forced time expiring type shots that Rondo doesn't get. 

I mean Serge Ibaka shoots 56%.  Would anyone call him a better shooter than Kevin Durant who shoots 51%?

I think its more that its just been exaggerated a bit. Plus the numbers, you can look at stats in so many ways to fit your arguement. There are always counters to everything.

Its ridiculous to think that Rondo is a liability in the 4th q tho. Hes one of the only guys in the game that can dominate a 4th quarter with scoring, rebounds, passing and or defense. Ive seen him.

Its not all the time but generally in big games he can piece together at least 2 of those attributes when most players only have a couple of those attributes to begin with.

Certainly not ridiculous. Rondo's effect on team offense in the 4th is a relevant comparison issue. But I think you're right to avoid statistic spin -- let's use real world situations to add color to the point.

If Paul, Curry, Irving, Parker, etc were on the Cs, do you think the only Cs play we'd see for their last shot (almost literally) is the Pierce iso fadeaway? Considering Doc's reputation for designing situational plays -- and how easy this one is for opposing teams to predict and defend -- I doubt it.

And if any of those same players were Celtics, do you think 9 times out of 10 they would be the inbounder out of 4th Q time outs? Not likely, because they're threats from further than 10 feet, and therefore require defensive attention on the perimeter, opening up subsequent options for themselves and other players. Rondo doesn't (and fears foul shooting), so he tends to draw that job. 

Rondo's offensive deficiencies should be considered objectively in the overall pluses and minuses of his game, not ignored. And these elements became harder to disguise without a lethal catch-and-shoot motion guy like Ray Allen on the team.

I think 6th is pretty good for a guy who shoots less than 25% from 3, and less than 65% from the FT line.

I didnt say he was a world beater and clutch player in the 4th. Your the one that is going to the extreme stating that he is a liability in the 4th.

But now you arent even talking about the 4th you are talking about the last 10 seconds of the 4th and not only that you are talking about him taking a last second shot.

Just stick to one arguement. Do I want him taking a last second shot? No. Do I think other pgs are better than him with 10 seconds left? Yeah some. Doesnt mean hes a liability in the 4th though.

Just say hes a poor ft and 3 pointer shooter. Hes not even bad at the mid range game if you go by the numbers. I mean I can even make a better argument for him being a liability in the 4th than you are

Rondo's a tremendous player, and a competitor (when he feels like it). The point is he's not a guy you can go to as a consistent scorer, nor one with the game on the line. That's what prevents him from being ranked higher against these other guys considering his many strengths.

Don't believe me -- trust these guys. See the first minute (Magic Johnson), minute 3 (Bill Simmons), and minute 4 (both of them):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ov5kPQH2PPI
Mike

(My name is not Mike)

Re: The NBA's top 10 PG's according to SI (Rondo is number 6)
« Reply #38 on: March 04, 2013, 02:01:30 PM »

Offline BballTim

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The writer lost all credibility with me, putting Westbrook at #3.

You know who Westbrook would be if he didn't play with Durant?  Monta Ellis.  That's right, I said Monta Ellis.  An unconscionable chucker, who brings little else to the game.

CP3 and Parker, I'll concede are, at this very moment, a slight notch above Rondo.  They are close enough in playmaking ability, that their obviously better ability to score, gives them the edge.  Irving probably will be better shortly, but isn't at moment.  Rose, I'd put on par with Rondo.  Rose is immensely better as a scorer, Rondo is immensely better as a play maker.

Ultimately, the writer seems to place higher value on scoring ability (as do many).  From the PG position, I do not.

Don't see a problem with Monta Ellis, but you can add defense + superior rebounding, and in the end, better passer too.

CP3 and Parker are more than a slight notch above Rondo at the moment. I'd say Irving is definitely better than Rondo at the moment. And Rose once again quite better than Rondo, but asterisk right now because of the ACL.

Don't see the problem with putting high value on scoring ability, and Rondo needs to do a lot more and better of the other things if he wants to be considered above any of the other players. He just isn't, in particular on how he's played this year, and the inconsistent effort he brought this year, and his deteriorated defense, which wasn't good as far as I'm concerned anyways.

  Rondo does a lot more things a lot better than most of the other players on the list. Did you watch Curry play against the Celts the other night? I'm not talking about his poor shooting night, but the fact that when he's not scoring he does little if anything to help the team. Same with players like Westbrook. Rose isn't as bad but it's a similar situation. Same for Irving.

  If those guys didn't shoot any more often than Rondo and gave you 8 or so fewer points a game they'd all be below average point guards. If they shot as often as Rondo and weren't better shooters or ft shooters than Rondo they'd be lucky to be starters. The difference between Rondo and those point guards in non-scoring skills is the difference between a top point guard and a below average player. It's that significant.

  The writer puts Irving, who's the one of the best scoring point guards and best clutch scorers around pretty much neck and neck with Rondo. Figure out the difference in impact that you think Irving's scoring has versus Rondo's "being a liability". That's the magnitude of difference in Rondo's favor in the other aspects of their games.

As far as walking triple-double threat, it's Rondo and Westbrook far ahead of the rest, but I'd probably give the edge to Westbrook since, like Rose before the ACL, he's still a few years away from his prime--whereas I believe that, at this point, we've seen Rondo's ceiling (a performance like Game 2 of the ECF).

  I don't like Westbrook at all. A point guard who takes more shots than Durant in spite of being a much less efficient scorer than KD just doesn't do it for me. You could easily claim he's a better individual performer than Rondo but I don't think he's better for your team.

Re: The NBA's top 10 PG's according to SI (Rondo is number 6)
« Reply #39 on: March 04, 2013, 02:08:39 PM »

Offline CelticG1

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I just don't get how you can have the league leader for Assists that high (or low, either way you say it) if we are ranking the PG position.

Oh well though.

Poor FG shooter,, shaq-like FT shooter. He's a liability in the 4th, where the others are assets.


Rondo Career fg%: 48%

Chris Paul: 47%

Westbrook: 43%

Kyrie Irving: 475

Rose: 46%

Tony Parker : 49%


Seems like his FG% is on par with these guys.
Sure but if you look at Points Per Shot, Rondo is way down that list (this year)

Rondo 1.12
Westbrook 1.25
Irving 1.27
Parker 1.35
Paul 1.37

Those guys all shoot more shots than Rondo, which negatively affects a percentage.  They are also their teams #1 or #2 scoring option, which means they don't get nearly as many open looks and often have forced time expiring type shots that Rondo doesn't get. 

I mean Serge Ibaka shoots 56%.  Would anyone call him a better shooter than Kevin Durant who shoots 51%?

I think its more that its just been exaggerated a bit. Plus the numbers, you can look at stats in so many ways to fit your arguement. There are always counters to everything.

Its ridiculous to think that Rondo is a liability in the 4th q tho. Hes one of the only guys in the game that can dominate a 4th quarter with scoring, rebounds, passing and or defense. Ive seen him.

Its not all the time but generally in big games he can piece together at least 2 of those attributes when most players only have a couple of those attributes to begin with.

Certainly not ridiculous. Rondo's effect on team offense in the 4th is a relevant comparison issue. But I think you're right to avoid statistic spin -- let's use real world situations to add color to the point.

If Paul, Curry, Irving, Parker, etc were on the Cs, do you think the only Cs play we'd see for their last shot (almost literally) is the Pierce iso fadeaway? Considering Doc's reputation for designing situational plays -- and how easy this one is for opposing teams to predict and defend -- I doubt it.

And if any of those same players were Celtics, do you think 9 times out of 10 they would be the inbounder out of 4th Q time outs? Not likely, because they're threats from further than 10 feet, and therefore require defensive attention on the perimeter, opening up subsequent options for themselves and other players. Rondo doesn't (and fears foul shooting), so he tends to draw that job. 

Rondo's offensive deficiencies should be considered objectively in the overall pluses and minuses of his game, not ignored. And these elements became harder to disguise without a lethal catch-and-shoot motion guy like Ray Allen on the team.

I think 6th is pretty good for a guy who shoots less than 25% from 3, and less than 65% from the FT line.

I didnt say he was a world beater and clutch player in the 4th. Your the one that is going to the extreme stating that he is a liability in the 4th.

But now you arent even talking about the 4th you are talking about the last 10 seconds of the 4th and not only that you are talking about him taking a last second shot.

Just stick to one arguement. Do I want him taking a last second shot? No. Do I think other pgs are better than him with 10 seconds left? Yeah some. Doesnt mean hes a liability in the 4th though.

Just say hes a poor ft and 3 pointer shooter. Hes not even bad at the mid range game if you go by the numbers. I mean I can even make a better argument for him being a liability in the 4th than you are

Rondo's a tremendous player, and a competitor (when he feels like it). The point is he's not a guy you can go to as a consistent scorer, nor one with the game on the line. That's what prevents him from being ranked higher against these other guys considering his many strengths.

Don't believe me -- trust these guys. See the first minute (Magic Johnson), minute 3 (Bill Simmons), and minute 4 (both of them):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ov5kPQH2PPI

Im just confused you said he was a liability in the 4th quarter and now you are just changing your arguement basically softening your stance.

Ill pass on bill simmons and crew. If you want I can dig up some Tommy quotes comparing Greg Stiemsma and Bill Russell.

Re: The NBA's top 10 PG's according to SI (Rondo is number 6)
« Reply #40 on: March 04, 2013, 02:09:06 PM »

Offline BballTim

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I just don't get how you can have the league leader for Assists that high (or low, either way you say it) if we are ranking the PG position.

Oh well though.

Poor FG shooter,, shaq-like FT shooter. He's a liability in the 4th, where the others are assets.


Rondo Career fg%: 48%

Chris Paul: 47%

Westbrook: 43%

Kyrie Irving: 475

Rose: 46%

Tony Parker : 49%


Seems like his FG% is on par with these guys.
Sure but if you look at Points Per Shot, Rondo is way down that list (this year)

Rondo 1.12
Westbrook 1.25
Irving 1.27
Parker 1.35
Paul 1.37

Those guys all shoot more shots than Rondo, which negatively affects a percentage.  They are also their teams #1 or #2 scoring option, which means they don't get nearly as many open looks and often have forced time expiring type shots that Rondo doesn't get. 

I mean Serge Ibaka shoots 56%.  Would anyone call him a better shooter than Kevin Durant who shoots 51%?

I think its more that its just been exaggerated a bit. Plus the numbers, you can look at stats in so many ways to fit your arguement. There are always counters to everything.

Its ridiculous to think that Rondo is a liability in the 4th q tho. Hes one of the only guys in the game that can dominate a 4th quarter with scoring, rebounds, passing and or defense. Ive seen him.

Its not all the time but generally in big games he can piece together at least 2 of those attributes when most players only have a couple of those attributes to begin with.

Certainly not ridiculous. Rondo's effect on team offense in the 4th is a relevant comparison issue. But I think you're right to avoid statistic spin -- let's use real world situations to add color to the point.

If Paul, Curry, Irving, Parker, etc were on the Cs, do you think the only Cs play we'd see for their last shot (almost literally) is the Pierce iso fadeaway? Considering Doc's reputation for designing situational plays -- and how easy this one is for opposing teams to predict and defend -- I doubt it.

And if any of those same players were Celtics, do you think 9 times out of 10 they would be the inbounder out of 4th Q time outs? Not likely, because they're threats from further than 10 feet, and therefore require defensive attention on the perimeter, opening up subsequent options for themselves and other players. Rondo doesn't (and fears foul shooting), so he tends to draw that job. 

Rondo's offensive deficiencies should be considered objectively in the overall pluses and minuses of his game, not ignored. And these elements became harder to disguise without a lethal catch-and-shoot motion guy like Ray Allen on the team.

I think 6th is pretty good for a guy who shoots less than 25% from 3, and less than 65% from the FT line.

I didnt say he was a world beater and clutch player in the 4th. Your the one that is going to the extreme stating that he is a liability in the 4th.

But now you arent even talking about the 4th you are talking about the last 10 seconds of the 4th and not only that you are talking about him taking a last second shot.

Just stick to one arguement. Do I want him taking a last second shot? No. Do I think other pgs are better than him with 10 seconds left? Yeah some. Doesnt mean hes a liability in the 4th though.

Just say hes a poor ft and 3 pointer shooter. Hes not even bad at the mid range game if you go by the numbers. I mean I can even make a better argument for him being a liability in the 4th than you are

Rondo's a tremendous player, and a competitor (when he feels like it). The point is he's not a guy you can go to as a consistent scorer, nor one with the game on the line. That's what prevents him from being ranked higher against these other guys considering his many strengths.

Don't believe me -- trust these guys. See the first minute (Magic Johnson), minute 3 (Bill Simmons), and minute 4 (both of them):

  I think going into the finals Rondo had made more shots in the playoffs late in close games than anyone else in the league. He's definitely been more willing to take late shots this year than he was in the past as well.

Re: The NBA's top 10 PG's according to SI (Rondo is number 6)
« Reply #41 on: March 04, 2013, 02:11:25 PM »

Offline wdleehi

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i dont think tony parker is better than rondo.


Why?



21 points

7.6 assists

.533 FG %

.379 3 FG %

.82 FT % getting to the line almost 5 times a game. 


And leads the team with the best record in the NBA.




What is there not to like?

Re: The NBA's top 10 PG's according to SI (Rondo is number 6)
« Reply #42 on: March 04, 2013, 02:13:35 PM »

Offline BballTim

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I just don't get how you can have the league leader for Assists that high (or low, either way you say it) if we are ranking the PG position.

Oh well though.

Poor FG shooter,, shaq-like FT shooter. He's a liability in the 4th, where the others are assets.


Rondo Career fg%: 48%

Chris Paul: 47%

Westbrook: 43%

Kyrie Irving: 475

Rose: 46%

Tony Parker : 49%


Seems like his FG% is on par with these guys.
Sure but if you look at Points Per Shot, Rondo is way down that list (this year)

Rondo 1.12
Westbrook 1.25
Irving 1.27
Parker 1.35
Paul 1.37

Those guys all shoot more shots than Rondo, which negatively affects a percentage.  They are also their teams #1 or #2 scoring option, which means they don't get nearly as many open looks and often have forced time expiring type shots that Rondo doesn't get. 

I mean Serge Ibaka shoots 56%.  Would anyone call him a better shooter than Kevin Durant who shoots 51%?

I think its more that its just been exaggerated a bit. Plus the numbers, you can look at stats in so many ways to fit your arguement. There are always counters to everything.

Its ridiculous to think that Rondo is a liability in the 4th q tho. Hes one of the only guys in the game that can dominate a 4th quarter with scoring, rebounds, passing and or defense. Ive seen him.

Its not all the time but generally in big games he can piece together at least 2 of those attributes when most players only have a couple of those attributes to begin with.

Certainly not ridiculous. Rondo's effect on team offense in the 4th is a relevant comparison issue. But I think you're right to avoid statistic spin -- let's use real world situations to add color to the point.

If Paul, Curry, Irving, Parker, etc were on the Cs, do you think the only Cs play we'd see for their last shot (almost literally) is the Pierce iso fadeaway? Considering Doc's reputation for designing situational plays -- and how easy this one is for opposing teams to predict and defend -- I doubt it.

And if any of those same players were Celtics, do you think 9 times out of 10 they would be the inbounder out of 4th Q time outs? Not likely, because they're threats from further than 10 feet, and therefore require defensive attention on the perimeter, opening up subsequent options for themselves and other players. Rondo doesn't (and fears foul shooting), so he tends to draw that job. 

Rondo's offensive deficiencies should be considered objectively in the overall pluses and minuses of his game, not ignored. And these elements became harder to disguise without a lethal catch-and-shoot motion guy like Ray Allen on the team.

I think 6th is pretty good for a guy who shoots less than 25% from 3, and less than 65% from the FT line.

I didnt say he was a world beater and clutch player in the 4th. Your the one that is going to the extreme stating that he is a liability in the 4th.

But now you arent even talking about the 4th you are talking about the last 10 seconds of the 4th and not only that you are talking about him taking a last second shot.

Just stick to one arguement. Do I want him taking a last second shot? No. Do I think other pgs are better than him with 10 seconds left? Yeah some. Doesnt mean hes a liability in the 4th though.

Just say hes a poor ft and 3 pointer shooter. Hes not even bad at the mid range game if you go by the numbers. I mean I can even make a better argument for him being a liability in the 4th than you are

Rondo's a tremendous player, and a competitor (when he feels like it). The point is he's not a guy you can go to as a consistent scorer, nor one with the game on the line. That's what prevents him from being ranked higher against these other guys considering his many strengths.

Don't believe me -- trust these guys. See the first minute (Magic Johnson), minute 3 (Bill Simmons), and minute 4 (both of them):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ov5kPQH2PPI

  Since you trust those guys so much I might be able to hunt up some quotes from Magic about Rondo being the best pg in the league.

Re: The NBA's top 10 PG's according to SI (Rondo is number 6)
« Reply #43 on: March 04, 2013, 02:16:36 PM »

Offline timobusa

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You can say that you think Rondo is the best. But if you wouldn't trade Rondo for Irving or CP3 you're crazy.

Those are the only 2 point guards I'd consider trading for Rondo, but I doubt their teams would let them go.

In the same regard, Rondo has more playoff experience than those 2 point guards, or any other point guards in the list, in exception of Parker.
So I'd rather have Rondo than anybody else.
Plus Rondo is so much more interesting to watch than those 2.
Lol

Re: The NBA's top 10 PG's according to SI (Rondo is number 6)
« Reply #44 on: March 04, 2013, 02:21:05 PM »

Offline BballTim

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i dont think tony parker is better than rondo.


Why?



21 points

7.6 assists

.533 FG %

.379 3 FG %

.82 FT % getting to the line almost 5 times a game. 


And leads the team with the best record in the NBA.




What is there not to like?

  That's one year though, I don't think he's really been top 5 or so in any of the previous 3-4 years.