White Randolph Williams Playing Time Problems With Doc Rivers (NO DNP)

[beklog]

Why is it that Greg Pop can utilize all his young/rookie/new players within his game plans, and Doc can't? Unless it's just cuz Pop is the best coach in the league and Doc, ahh........isn't!!!!!!

yeah i think Pop is the best coach... in terms of playmaking/adjustment/rotation... Doc is what they called player's coach... he listen to players and i like how he talk to the refs and motivate his players

[Boris Badenov]

Why is it that Greg Pop can utilize all his young/rookie/new players within his game plans, and Doc can't? Unless it's just cuz Pop is the best coach in the league and Doc, ahh........isn't!!!!!!

There's a substantial talent difference there. I'm pretty sure that if we acquired Tiago Splitter, Danny Green and Kawhi Leonard, Doc would find minutes for them.

Heck, Dejuan Blair has been logging DNP-CDs all year for SA, and Blair would immediately be the second best big man on the Celtics. SA would have bought him out, but they were too worried he would go and be an immediate contributor somewhere else. That tells you something about their depth.

Randolph and Williams are not even legitimate NBA-level players, and Jordan Crawford was basically dumped by a franchise known for its immature players because he was the most immature of the bunch. He has already taken more bad shots in four games than every other player on the C's has taken all year.

[krook]

how can we become a contender, if garnett and pierce that we are relying too are toast come playoffs?
i believe this team can win
the best option is let the other guys play for a while
and let those veteran play for a lesser minutes
that is my one point here
should we wait for someone to get injured before we see randolph and white play?
what did doc rivers said, a big man who can rebounds and floor space...
player can learn the system through practice? not sure
or we should try them on the court....
varnando has respect to veterans... lets just say yes
but how about collins playing over milicic?
as for the birdman he can give you 4 rebounds and lets say 10 points a game which isn't that bad at all

as i said if randolph and white can get 10 minutes both in a game, maybe that is ok to reduce KG minutes... off course there is bass wilcox...up to doc....
but the rotation is really so bad....
if they saw a progress on randolph and white... then used them... i know they will DNP or 5 minutes a game....
but if not? danny should have gotten gortat or hickson tried and 100% sure helpful... no need for system instruction... your role is rebounds and score... yes they can defend too...

but past is past... all we got to do is rely on KG on #5 and hope no injuries occurred....
GO RANDOLPH GO WHITE SAVE THIS TEAM ^_^

[Lightskinsmurf]

how can we become a contender, if garnett and pierce that we are relying too are toast come playoffs?
i believe this team can win
the best option is let the other guys play for a while
and let those veteran play for a lesser minutes
that is my one point here
should we wait for someone to get injured before we see randolph and white play?
what did doc rivers said, a big man who can rebounds and floor space...
player can learn the system through practice? not sure
or we should try them on the court....
varnando has respect to veterans... lets just say yes
but how about collins playing over milicic?
as for the birdman he can give you 4 rebounds and lets say 10 points a game which isn't that bad at all

as i said if randolph and white can get 10 minutes both in a game, maybe that is ok to reduce KG minutes... off course there is bass wilcox...up to doc....
but the rotation is really so bad....
if they saw a progress on randolph and white... then used them... i know they will DNP or 5 minutes a game....
but if not? danny should have gotten gortat or hickson tried and 100% sure helpful... no need for system instruction... your role is rebounds and score... yes they can defend too...

but past is past... all we got to do is rely on KG on #5 and hope no injuries occurred....
GO RANDOLPH GO WHITE SAVE THIS TEAM ^_^

Lol

[OhioGreen]

Why is it that Greg Pop can utilize all his young/rookie/new players within his game plans, and Doc can't? Unless it's just cuz Pop is the best coach in the league and Doc, ahh........isn't!!!!!!

There's a substantial talent difference there. I'm pretty sure that if we acquired Tiago Splitter, Danny Green and Kawhi Leonard, Doc would find minutes for them.

Heck, Dejuan Blair has been logging DNP-CDs all year for SA, and Blair would immediately be the second best big man on the Celtics. SA would have bought him out, but they were too worried he would go and be an immediate contributor somewhere else. That tells you something about their depth.

Randolph and Williams are not even legitimate NBA-level players, and Jordan Crawford was basically dumped by a franchise known for its immature players because he was the most immature of the bunch. He has already taken more bad shots in four games than every other player on the C's has taken all year.

Well, yeah, if you pick 3 Spurs starters, I guess you have a great argument! I was refering to their end of bench guys, like CJoseph, NDiColo, ABaynes, and to a lesser extent DBlair and PMills.  Going back over the past 7/8 games, no matter how close, win or lose, Pop played AT LEAST 12 GUYS, generally about 4/5 to 9/10 minutes every game! No, not huge minutes, but enough to keep all feeling like they're contributing members of the TEAM!
And that's why Pop can sit their top 4 players in ONE GAME, and still have a competitive team on the floor!
Let guys rot on the bench, game after game, and you get unsure, wild, garbage time players when you DO need them!

[Boris Badenov]

Why is it that Greg Pop can utilize all his young/rookie/new players within his game plans, and Doc can't? Unless it's just cuz Pop is the best coach in the league and Doc, ahh........isn't!!!!!!

There's a substantial talent difference there. I'm pretty sure that if we acquired Tiago Splitter, Danny Green and Kawhi Leonard, Doc would find minutes for them.

Heck, Dejuan Blair has been logging DNP-CDs all year for SA, and Blair would immediately be the second best big man on the Celtics. SA would have bought him out, but they were too worried he would go and be an immediate contributor somewhere else. That tells you something about their depth.

Randolph and Williams are not even legitimate NBA-level players, and Jordan Crawford was basically dumped by a franchise known for its immature players because he was the most immature of the bunch. He has already taken more bad shots in four games than every other player on the C's has taken all year.

Well, yeah, if you pick 3 Spurs starters, I guess you have a great argument! I was refering to their end of bench guys, like CJoseph, NDiColo, ABaynes, and to a lesser extent DBlair and PMills.  Going back over the past 7/8 games, no matter how close, win or lose, Pop played AT LEAST 12 GUYS, generally about 4/5 to 9/10 minutes every game! No, not huge minutes, but enough to keep all feeling like they're contributing members of the TEAM!
And that's why Pop can sit their top 4 players in ONE GAME, and still have a competitive team on the floor!
Let guys rot on the bench, game after game, and you get unsure, wild, garbage time players when you DO need them!

You were talking about "young/rookie/new" players - what does the starter/bench distinction have to do with it? I think you just helped to make my point - those guys are that good.

We already talked about Blair. You want to discuss Mills? OK - he is an Olympian who led the world in scoring during the 2012 Olympics. The only reason he only plays 10 minutes per game is because he's playing behind an MVP candidate.

If you want to pick Baynes - he has played more than 5 minutes 3 times since February 1st, out of 12 games. You are flat wrong about him.

Regarding Joseph, he has played in exactly ONE GAME out of the last 13. You are just so wrong about him it's silly.

Regarding DeColo, he has been playing. Of course, many of his minutes have come because Tony Parker has been struggling with injuries...but why let that little fact enter the discussion?

And as far as playing lots of guys, yes the Spurs have been doing that recently. Of course, in the last 7-8 games they have played two overtime games and had two 25-point blowouts. Most teams play their bench more in those situations. In the three games that were non-OT, non-blowout, they played "AT LEAST 12 GUYS" only once.

Meanwhile in the last 7 games Doc has played every available roster player not named Fab Melo, in every game, with the exception of Garnett (healthy scratch, which is just what Pop does), Randolph/White (in their first game on an NBA roster this year) and Twill (one game DNP). Everyone else has played in every game. Just in terms of the math, it is pretty hard to play "AT LEAST 12 GUYS" when you have only 10 players who are even available to play.

Please, get your facts straight.

[OhioGreen]

Why is it that Greg Pop can utilize all his young/rookie/new players within his game plans, and Doc can't? Unless it's just cuz Pop is the best coach in the league and Doc, ahh........isn't!!!!!!

There's a substantial talent difference there. I'm pretty sure that if we acquired Tiago Splitter, Danny Green and Kawhi Leonard, Doc would find minutes for them.

Heck, Dejuan Blair has been logging DNP-CDs all year for SA, and Blair would immediately be the second best big man on the Celtics. SA would have bought him out, but they were too worried he would go and be an immediate contributor somewhere else. That tells you something about their depth.

Randolph and Williams are not even legitimate NBA-level players, and Jordan Crawford was basically dumped by a franchise known for its immature players because he was the most immature of the bunch. He has already taken more bad shots in four games than every other player on the C's has taken all year.

Well, yeah, if you pick 3 Spurs starters, I guess you have a great argument! I was refering to their end of bench guys, like CJoseph, NDiColo, ABaynes, and to a lesser extent DBlair and PMills.  Going back over the past 7/8 games, no matter how close, win or lose, Pop played AT LEAST 12 GUYS, generally about 4/5 to 9/10 minutes every game! No, not huge minutes, but enough to keep all feeling like they're contributing members of the TEAM!
And that's why Pop can sit their top 4 players in ONE GAME, and still have a competitive team on the floor!
Let guys rot on the bench, game after game, and you get unsure, wild, garbage time players when you DO need them!

You were talking about "young/rookie/new" players - what does the starter/bench distinction have to do with it? I think you just helped to make my point - those guys are that good.

We already talked about Blair. You want to discuss Mills? OK - he is an Olympian who led the world in scoring during the 2012 Olympics. The only reason he only plays 10 minutes per game is because he's playing behind an MVP candidate.

If you want to pick Baynes - he has played more than 5 minutes 3 times since February 1st, out of 12 games. You are flat wrong about him.

Regarding Joseph, he has played in exactly ONE GAME out of the last 13. You are just so wrong about him it's silly.

Regarding DiColo, he has been playing. Of course, many of his minutes have come because Tony Parker has been struggling with injuries...but why let that little fact enter the discussion?

And as far as playing lots of guys, yes the Spurs have been doing that recently. Of course, in the last 7-8 games they have played two overtime games and had two 25-point blowouts. Most teams play their bench more in those situations. In the three games that were non-OT, non-blowout, they played "AT LEAST 12 GUYS" only once.

Meanwhile in the last 7 games Doc has played every available roster player not named Fab Melo, in every game, with the exception of Garnett (healthy scratch, which is just what Pop does), Randolph/White (in their first game on an NBA roster this year) and Twill (one game DNP). Everyone else has played in every game. Just in terms of the math, it is pretty hard to play "AT LEAST 12 GUYS" when you have only 10 players who are even available to play.

Please, get your facts straight.

The C's roster was stacked completely with veterans by DA this season. So until recently we've only had AB,Sully,and Melo as players who fit into the cat I was refering to. Sully is out of the picture and AB plays tons of minutes. I'm sure you knew quite well I was refering to our newly added/acquired guys.
I'm not even going to quibble about a minute or two minutes playing time here or there and the Spurs have player 12 NOT COUNTING INJURED PLAYERS OR INACTIVE PLAYERS due to having too many available players!
My point was, that Pop coaching the C's would have had all these new Celtics getting in the action right off the bat, even if only 4/5 minutes, just to keep their minds and worth to the team perpetuated. Doc just doesn't deal with that well, and never has! He's a players coach, as long as you're a veteran--no matter how badly you play. It's like the new guys have to go thru a HAZING type of thing before he ALLOWS them to be a part of the team!
We'll see, though, in upcoming games. If he keeps riding the same 8/9 guys til the playoffs if won't matter anyway, cause our aging guys will be so worn out, it;ll be 4 and out!

[mkogav]

The team is what it is. Don't expect any of these 3 players to get significant PT b/c the team is fighting for it's playoff position.

These three players are on Spring tryouts. Williams already received his call-up for the fall.

Mk

[Boris Badenov]

Why is it that Greg Pop can utilize all his young/rookie/new players within his game plans, and Doc can't? Unless it's just cuz Pop is the best coach in the league and Doc, ahh........isn't!!!!!!

There's a substantial talent difference there. I'm pretty sure that if we acquired Tiago Splitter, Danny Green and Kawhi Leonard, Doc would find minutes for them.

Heck, Dejuan Blair has been logging DNP-CDs all year for SA, and Blair would immediately be the second best big man on the Celtics. SA would have bought him out, but they were too worried he would go and be an immediate contributor somewhere else. That tells you something about their depth.

Randolph and Williams are not even legitimate NBA-level players, and Jordan Crawford was basically dumped by a franchise known for its immature players because he was the most immature of the bunch. He has already taken more bad shots in four games than every other player on the C's has taken all year.

Well, yeah, if you pick 3 Spurs starters, I guess you have a great argument! I was refering to their end of bench guys, like CJoseph, NDiColo, ABaynes, and to a lesser extent DBlair and PMills.  Going back over the past 7/8 games, no matter how close, win or lose, Pop played AT LEAST 12 GUYS, generally about 4/5 to 9/10 minutes every game! No, not huge minutes, but enough to keep all feeling like they're contributing members of the TEAM!
And that's why Pop can sit their top 4 players in ONE GAME, and still have a competitive team on the floor!
Let guys rot on the bench, game after game, and you get unsure, wild, garbage time players when you DO need them!

You were talking about "young/rookie/new" players - what does the starter/bench distinction have to do with it? I think you just helped to make my point - those guys are that good.

We already talked about Blair. You want to discuss Mills? OK - he is an Olympian who led the world in scoring during the 2012 Olympics. The only reason he only plays 10 minutes per game is because he's playing behind an MVP candidate.

If you want to pick Baynes - he has played more than 5 minutes 3 times since February 1st, out of 12 games. You are flat wrong about him.

Regarding Joseph, he has played in exactly ONE GAME out of the last 13. You are just so wrong about him it's silly.

Regarding DiColo, he has been playing. Of course, many of his minutes have come because Tony Parker has been struggling with injuries...but why let that little fact enter the discussion?

And as far as playing lots of guys, yes the Spurs have been doing that recently. Of course, in the last 7-8 games they have played two overtime games and had two 25-point blowouts. Most teams play their bench more in those situations. In the three games that were non-OT, non-blowout, they played "AT LEAST 12 GUYS" only once.

Meanwhile in the last 7 games Doc has played every available roster player not named Fab Melo, in every game, with the exception of Garnett (healthy scratch, which is just what Pop does), Randolph/White (in their first game on an NBA roster this year) and Twill (one game DNP). Everyone else has played in every game. Just in terms of the math, it is pretty hard to play "AT LEAST 12 GUYS" when you have only 10 players who are even available to play.

Please, get your facts straight.

The C's roster was stacked completely with veterans by DA this season. So until recently we've only had AB,Sully,and Melo as players who fit into the cat I was refering to. Sully is out of the picture and AB plays tons of minutes. I'm sure you knew quite well I was refering to our newly added/acquired guys.

OK, until Sully got hurt, two out of the three players you are "referring to" were STARTING and playing 50-60 minutes per game combined. Again, you are completely out of touch with reality by saying Doc does not give players like that minutes

I'm not even going to quibble about a minute or two minutes playing time here or there and the Spurs have player 12 NOT COUNTING INJURED PLAYERS OR INACTIVE PLAYERS due to having too many available players!

If you can't tell the difference between "a minute here or there" and saying someone has played eight games in a row when they've played one out of the last twelve, you are again completely out of touch with reality.

My point was, that Pop coaching the C's would have had all these new Celtics getting in the action right off the bat, even if only 4/5 minutes, just to keep their minds and worth to the team perpetuated. Doc just doesn't deal with that well, and never has!

Last week we added two players, Crawford and Williams. For the 5 games Williams has been on the roster he is averaging 12 minutes per game. For the 4 games Crawford has been on the roster he is averaging 13 minutes per game.

Again - in what reality are these guys not playing "if only 4/5 minutes"? They are playing far more than that....

If you are talking about Randolph and White - they have been on the roster for ONE GAME. One. Even if you include their DNPs, our 4 new players are still averaging more than 10 minutes per contest  - and we have added four, count them, FOUR, new roster players since the middle of February. Please point out to me a similar situation Popovich has faced, where he played his new players more minutes.

[krook]

hope to see minutes on randolph and white

[connor]

I don't expect to see much, if any, of these guys at all in the near future and I'm perfectly happy with that. Any game that Doc isn't resting KG or PP is a game we are trying to win and with Doc as our coach that means tighter rotations and little to no playing time for fringe bench players.

Right now its all about seeding and health. There is still a good chance that the Celtics can make a move up and avoid first round match ups with the Heat or the Pacers and thats what we should be focusing on. As the season comes to a close the seedings are going to take shape and we will know where we stand. Thats when Doc can run these guys out there and see if they might have anything to contribute. Until then, let them ride the pine, learn the plays and pick up minutes in any game we sit our stars or in garbage time.

It doesn't make sense for us to be forcing these guys onto the court for any amount of minutes when we are still competing for a better first round playoff match up. These guys are scrap heap China players, they're just extra bodies. Any extra contribution they can provide is just a bonus. To actually expect them to provide any significant boost is unrealistic (although Crawford and Twill both seem to have the talent to make a difference, I just don't know if they can fix their major issues in time to put their talent to good use).

[krook]

I don't expect to see much, if any, of these guys at all in the near future and I'm perfectly happy with that. Any game that Doc isn't resting KG or PP is a game we are trying to win and with Doc as our coach that means tighter rotations and little to no playing time for fringe bench players.

Right now its all about seeding and health. There is still a good chance that the Celtics can make a move up and avoid first round match ups with the Heat or the Pacers and thats what we should be focusing on. As the season comes to a close the seedings are going to take shape and we will know where we stand. Thats when Doc can run these guys out there and see if they might have anything to contribute. Until then, let them ride the pine, learn the plays and pick up minutes in any game we sit our stars or in garbage time.

It doesn't make sense for us to be forcing these guys onto the court for any amount of minutes when we are still competing for a better first round playoff match up. These guys are scrap heap China players, they're just extra bodies. Any extra contribution they can provide is just a bonus. To actually expect them to provide any significant boost is unrealistic (although Crawford and Twill both seem to have the talent to make a difference, I just don't know if they can fix their major issues in time to put their talent to good use).

randolph says what he did in china he wants to do in celtics, but i don't see it unless wilcox gets injured

[Tr1boy]

You would think these guys would get at least a few min tonight against the lowly 76rs.

So unless the celtics have a 20 pt lead with less than 2 mins to go, or if there are injuries to one or both bass and wilcox, Randolph and White won't see a sec on the court. Lucky for them due to needing a full roster they will prob get signed for the rest of the year like T Williams.

I see now why T Ohlbretch said no thank you.

[LooseCannon]

So unless the celtics have a 20 pt lead with less than 2 mins to go, or if there are injuries to one or both bass and wilcox, Randolph and White won't see a sec on the court.

Garnett played 28:04, Bass played 24:45 and Wilcox played 16:54.  Garnett and Bass both played a couple of minutes less than their season averages, so it's not like Doc is running his best bigs into the ground to avoid playing the new guys.

[bfrombleacher]

Don't know where else to post this...

From ESPN's Rapid Reaction's comment board

I really liked what I saw from the new guys tonight. DJ White was quick with the high 5's and Shavlik appeared to clap in rhythm. Solid night!