Author Topic: Larry Bird schools Michael Jordan  (Read 10237 times)

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Larry Bird schools Michael Jordan
« on: March 02, 2013, 10:46:48 AM »

Offline stb

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Re: Larry Bird schools Michael Jordan
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2013, 10:57:06 AM »

Offline eja117

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yep. If Jordan had played the bulk of his career during prime healthy Magic/Bird/I Thomas days he would be just another guy
« Last Edit: March 02, 2013, 11:03:28 AM by eja117 »

Re: Larry Bird schools Michael Jordan
« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2013, 11:18:16 AM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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yep. If Jordan had played the bulk of his career during prime healthy Magic/Bird/I Thomas days he would be just another guy

Michael was truly one of the greatest of all time...near the top of the list.

It would've been interesting to see him play in the primes of those three you mentioned.

I would've loved to have seen THIS guy reach his prime:



Reggie Lewis would've certainly been a thorn in Michael's side.


Re: Larry Bird schools Michael Jordan
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2013, 11:32:22 AM »

Offline Jon

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That's always been my argument.  You list the top 10 players of all time, and Jordan is the only who was in his prime during the '90s.  Magic and Larry were on their way out and the likes of Shaq, Duncan, and Kobe (if you wanted to include them) were too young. 

I suppose you could bring Hakeem into the discussion, but he never actually faced Jordan in a playoff game...ever. 

I mean how many titles would Larry Bird have won if there was no Magic to play against?  Or how many titles would Wilt have won if Russell played in a different era? 

So I think there's really a good argument to be made about Jordan being overrated.  He's still a top 10 player and potentially the greatest ever, but if he played 10 years earlier or 10 years later, I'm not sure he'd stand out in people's minds as much as he does now. 


Re: Larry Bird schools Michael Jordan
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2013, 11:40:13 AM »

Offline ManUp

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Jordan was young and his supporting cast wasn't going to beat those battle tested Celtics teams.

Re: Larry Bird schools Michael Jordan
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2013, 11:47:09 AM »

Offline hwangjini_1

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for reggie lewis we will never know. but if you compare his first 5 years to pierce they are not terribly different in terms of points, rebounds, etc.

pierce was clearly better in those stats, but not dramatically.

so....based solely upon that weak basis, it looks as if lewis would have had a pretty darned good career for himself.

rip 35
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Re: Larry Bird schools Michael Jordan
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2013, 11:52:44 AM »

Offline nostar

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That's always been my argument.  You list the top 10 players of all time, and Jordan is the only who was in his prime during the '90s.  Magic and Larry were on their way out and the likes of Shaq, Duncan, and Kobe (if you wanted to include them) were too young. 

I suppose you could bring Hakeem into the discussion, but he never actually faced Jordan in a playoff game...ever. 

I mean how many titles would Larry Bird have won if there was no Magic to play against?  Or how many titles would Wilt have won if Russell played in a different era? 

So I think there's really a good argument to be made about Jordan being overrated.  He's still a top 10 player and potentially the greatest ever, but if he played 10 years earlier or 10 years later, I'm not sure he'd stand out in people's minds as much as he does now.

I have no idea what you're talking about. Jordan competed directly with Barkely, Ewing, Dumars, Thomas, Rice and Drexler, most of them in their prime. I'm not saying he had an equal in that list but come on. Those guys are all HoFers and most first-ballot.

Jordan was just better than them. He willed his teams to win through sickness and injury sometimes with little to no help.

The man took 2 years off and then came back to lead his team to the best single season record in NBA history and a title.

Overrated is never a word that should be used to describe Michael Jordan as a player. Ever.

Re: Larry Bird schools Michael Jordan
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2013, 11:55:11 AM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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for reggie lewis we will never know. but if you compare his first 5 years to pierce they are not terribly different in terms of points, rebounds, etc.

pierce was clearly better in those stats, but not dramatically.

so....based solely upon that weak basis, it looks as if lewis would have had a pretty darned good career for himself.

rip 35

Yes, truly.

But oddly enough..Jeff Green reminds me a bit of Reggie...there was even a similar thread/fanpost about this same thing a while back....similar build..long...great potential for defense..same heart condition, I believe - with the exception of Today's Technology perhaps identifying Jeff's condition.

Didn't Reggie and Jeff even attend schools in nearly the same location? Northeastern and Georgetown (Maryland area?)...

Jeff Green has already been key for us defensively vs Carmelo and LeBron....

Re: Larry Bird schools Michael Jordan
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2013, 12:27:09 PM »

Online Roy H.

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yep. If Jordan had played the bulk of his career during prime healthy Magic/Bird/I Thomas days he would be just another guy

Just another guy who dropped 63 on the Celtics in a playoff game.

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Re: Larry Bird schools Michael Jordan
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2013, 12:33:38 PM »

Offline Snakehead

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yep. If Jordan had played the bulk of his career during prime healthy Magic/Bird/I Thomas days he would be just another guy

Way overboard but I don't think he would have had the same championship success, no.

To me he isn't the far away best ever like some say but he could certainly be the best ever.  I find getting to that level of specific ranking rather pointless as there are so many facets to the players themselves and their situations.


That's always been my argument.  You list the top 10 players of all time, and Jordan is the only who was in his prime during the '90s.  Magic and Larry were on their way out and the likes of Shaq, Duncan, and Kobe (if you wanted to include them) were too young. 

I suppose you could bring Hakeem into the discussion, but he never actually faced Jordan in a playoff game...ever. 

I mean how many titles would Larry Bird have won if there was no Magic to play against?  Or how many titles would Wilt have won if Russell played in a different era? 

So I think there's really a good argument to be made about Jordan being overrated.  He's still a top 10 player and potentially the greatest ever, but if he played 10 years earlier or 10 years later, I'm not sure he'd stand out in people's minds as much as he does now.

I have no idea what you're talking about. Jordan competed directly with Barkely, Ewing, Dumars, Thomas, Rice and Drexler, most of them in their prime. I'm not saying he had an equal in that list but come on. Those guys are all HoFers and most first-ballot.

Jordan was just better than them. He willed his teams to win through sickness and injury sometimes with little to no help.

The man took 2 years off and then came back to lead his team to the best single season record in NBA history and a title.

Overrated is never a word that should be used to describe Michael Jordan as a player. Ever.

You have no idea what he's talking about?  I think he pretty clearly said it:

The only top 10 player who didn't face other top 10 players in his prime.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2013, 12:40:10 PM by Snakehead »


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Re: Larry Bird schools Michael Jordan
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2013, 12:37:15 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Jordan was a great player, so too was Bird.  Jordan won his titles at a time when the league was low on talent.   It's not his fault but no way do they beat the C's of the 80's, the showtime Lakers or the 83 sixers.   Pipp and MJ would not be enough to take those teams, our bench guys on the 86 team would have started on the MJ teams.   I would take 86 Walton over Longley.

Re: Larry Bird schools Michael Jordan
« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2013, 12:37:51 PM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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yep. If Jordan had played the bulk of his career during prime healthy Magic/Bird/I Thomas days he would be just another guy

Just another guy who dropped 63 on the Celtics in a playoff game.

And lost, thankfully.

The Big Three stepped up Big-Time in that game.

But Michael was on fire...

Re: Larry Bird schools Michael Jordan
« Reply #12 on: March 02, 2013, 12:48:10 PM »

Offline ianboyextreme

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for reggie lewis we will never know. but if you compare his first 5 years to pierce they are not terribly different in terms of points, rebounds, etc.

pierce was clearly better in those stats, but not dramatically.

so....based solely upon that weak basis, it looks as if lewis would have had a pretty darned good career for himself.

rip 35

Yes, truly.

But oddly enough..Jeff Green reminds me a bit of Reggie...there was even a similar thread/fanpost about this same thing a while back....similar build..long...great potential for defense..same heart condition, I believe - with the exception of Today's Technology perhaps identifying Jeff's condition.

Didn't Reggie and Jeff even attend schools in nearly the same location? Northeastern and Georgetown (Maryland area?)...

Jeff Green has already been key for us defensively vs Carmelo and LeBron....
It was actually Bias who had all the uncanny similarities with Green. Maybe Lewis is connected with another player, though.

Avery Bradley kind of seems to channel the same kind demeanor as Lewis to me.

Re: Larry Bird schools Michael Jordan
« Reply #13 on: March 02, 2013, 12:52:27 PM »

Offline Jon

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yep. If Jordan had played the bulk of his career during prime healthy Magic/Bird/I Thomas days he would be just another guy

Way overboard but I don't think he would have had the same championship success, no.

To me he isn't the far away best ever like some say but he could certainly be the best ever.  I find getting to that level of specific ranking rather pointless as there are so many facets to the players themselves and their situations.


That's always been my argument.  You list the top 10 players of all time, and Jordan is the only who was in his prime during the '90s.  Magic and Larry were on their way out and the likes of Shaq, Duncan, and Kobe (if you wanted to include them) were too young. 

I suppose you could bring Hakeem into the discussion, but he never actually faced Jordan in a playoff game...ever. 

I mean how many titles would Larry Bird have won if there was no Magic to play against?  Or how many titles would Wilt have won if Russell played in a different era? 

So I think there's really a good argument to be made about Jordan being overrated.  He's still a top 10 player and potentially the greatest ever, but if he played 10 years earlier or 10 years later, I'm not sure he'd stand out in people's minds as much as he does now.

I have no idea what you're talking about. Jordan competed directly with Barkely, Ewing, Dumars, Thomas, Rice and Drexler, most of them in their prime. I'm not saying he had an equal in that list but come on. Those guys are all HoFers and most first-ballot.

Jordan was just better than them. He willed his teams to win through sickness and injury sometimes with little to no help.

The man took 2 years off and then came back to lead his team to the best single season record in NBA history and a title.

Overrated is never a word that should be used to describe Michael Jordan as a player. Ever.

You have no idea what he's talking about?  I think he pretty clearly said it:

The only top 10 player who didn't face other top 10 players in his prime.

Yep. 

That's pretty much it. 

None of those players you mentioned are really elite, elite players.  If Barkley was truly a transcendent player, he would've made it to the Finals more than once. 

And that's the problem.  Bird has to contend with Magic's Lakers and vice versa.  Both were perennial contenders.  Who was a perennial contender in Jordan's era? 

No one.  The closest thing we get is the Utah Jazz, who managed to string together two Finals appearance in a row. 

Again, my point isn't that Jordan isn't the greatest player ever.  I said in my last post that he quite possibly could be.  I simply think he's overrated when people say that his status as the all time great player is unquestioned. 

If he had played 10 years earlier or later, it's quite possible he'd have won far fewer titles and would've been viewed as simply a top 10 player and not the unquestioned greatest player of all time. 

Re: Larry Bird schools Michael Jordan
« Reply #14 on: March 02, 2013, 12:53:35 PM »

Offline moiso

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yep. If Jordan had played the bulk of his career during prime healthy Magic/Bird/I Thomas days he would be just another guy

Just another guy who dropped 63 on the Celtics in a playoff game.
Seems like eja117 was poking fun at how Isiah said that if Bird were black he would be just another guy.  Maybe I'm wrong.

 

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