Author Topic: Another win w/o a pouting Rondo  (Read 8611 times)

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Re: Another win w/o a pouting Rondo
« Reply #30 on: March 02, 2013, 11:14:23 AM »

Offline Lightskinsmurf

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Definitely wouldn't say PROBABLY. Also that's not their fault. Rondo and doc both demand the ball to be in rondos hands like 95 percent of the time. He calls for the ball the very second someone gets a rebound. Also rondo is known for feeding pierce and KG and sometimes looking past the other guys.

You see it all the time with the lakers. When kobe starts holding the ball and shot jacking the other guys tend to just stand around. You ever try playing basketball with a ball hog? Its not fun. There's no doubt in my mind this team would be better if rondo was healthy and didn't hold the ball every possession for 20 seconds looking for an assist.

Did you just try to compare Rondo, one of the two best set up PGs in the league, to Kobe when he jacks up 28 shots and freezes out the rest of his teammates?   That's lunacy.  A PG focusing too much on setting teammates is a lot different than a gunner hoisting up shot after shot while his teammates stand around.

If you want to argue that the Cs being to Rondo-centric hurt the team because they were easier to defend, because everyone wasn't as engaged as all around players, maybe I'll buy into that, but saying the Celtics players were being freezed out when on the floor with a guy who could get them the ball at any time, better than any other player in the entire league, save CP3, is lunacy. 

I've played with ball hogs, and I've played with pass first set up PGs.  I hated playing with a ball hog, but if he were on, I'd make sure to set picks for him and if he was off, I'd hit the offensive glass.  With the pass hungry PG, I'd make sure I was ready for the ball at all times. Players need to be MORE engaged with Rondo, lest a pass will hit them in the face.   

I was hoping you could comprehend my point without saying what you just said, guess not...And yes that's what I was trying to argue. Rondo having the ball every possession for most of the shot clock hurt the team. This team plays better when they play freely not when someone dominates the ball.

Ball hogs are no fun to play with but it is also no fun to play with someone who holds the ball always trying to make the home run pass.  In the group I play with, we seem to have more trouble with the latter.  The result is unnecessary turnovers more often than easy baskets (we are not as good as Rondo obviously).  After the second or third off-the-ball move with the same guy still dribbling around, you get frustrated.

This is exactly what I meant, thank you lol.

Re: Another win w/o a pouting Rondo
« Reply #31 on: March 02, 2013, 11:15:50 AM »

Offline moiso

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I still think rondo will be missed in the playoffs but if jeff green can play like an allstar we have a shot.
Same goes for Shavlick Randolph ;)

Re: Another win w/o a pouting Rondo
« Reply #32 on: March 02, 2013, 11:16:06 AM »

Online BballTim

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Definitely wouldn't say PROBABLY. Also that's not their fault. Rondo and doc both demand the ball to be in rondos hands like 95 percent of the time. He calls for the ball the very second someone gets a rebound. Also rondo is known for feeding pierce and KG and sometimes looking past the other guys.

You see it all the time with the lakers. When kobe starts holding the ball and shot jacking the other guys tend to just stand around. You ever try playing basketball with a ball hog? Its not fun. There's no doubt in my mind this team would be better if rondo was healthy and didn't hold the ball every possession for 20 seconds looking for an assist.

Did you just try to compare Rondo, one of the two best set up PGs in the league, to Kobe when he jacks up 28 shots and freezes out the rest of his teammates?   That's lunacy.  A PG focusing too much on setting teammates is a lot different than a gunner hoisting up shot after shot while his teammates stand around.

If you want to argue that the Cs being to Rondo-centric hurt the team because they were easier to defend, because everyone wasn't as engaged as all around players, maybe I'll buy into that, but saying the Celtics players were being freezed out when on the floor with a guy who could get them the ball at any time, better than any other player in the entire league, save CP3, is lunacy. 

I've played with ball hogs, and I've played with pass first set up PGs.  I hated playing with a ball hog, but if he were on, I'd make sure to set picks for him and if he was off, I'd hit the offensive glass.  With the pass hungry PG, I'd make sure I was ready for the ball at all times. Players need to be MORE engaged with Rondo, lest a pass will hit them in the face.   

Rondo is not one of the 2 top PG's in the league. I could even argue he's not in the top 10
-CP3
-Westbrook
-Irving
-Deron Williams
-Steve Nash
-Tony Parker
-Derrick Rose
-Steph Curry
-Jason Kidd
-Mike Conley

  You'd have just as easy a time arguing that he's the best in the league as you would arguing that he's not in the top 10. That list is hilarious. One would assume that you haven't seen Kidd play since 2004 or so and think he's still at that level.

Re: Another win w/o a pouting Rondo
« Reply #33 on: March 02, 2013, 11:17:29 AM »

Offline Lightskinsmurf

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TP to the original poster.  This team plays so much better without Rondo.

I have a question for those out there who say this team needs Rondo so badly

How many championships did Rondo ever win for the Celtics, if he is so valuable?

And 2008 doesn't count because I think PJ Brown who was their 3rd back up center played more of a role in the team going all the way than Rondo did.

Well, I do think that when Rondo does come back, perhaps he needs to grow a bit more and let Paul and others share the ball.

KG is even an elite passer for a big.

Some of that is on Doc....but I'm sure it will all work out.

I bolded your comment there, because one overlooked stat, sadly, is that in that clinching game 6 vs LA in BOS in June 2008, Rajon Rondo quietly flirted with a quadruple double:

21 pts, 7 rebs, 8 assists and SIX steals....all under 32 min.

He played less than Pierce, KG and Ray Allen in that game, too.

He was indeed showing signs of greatness even then, but was overshadowed somewhat by the Big Three.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200806170BOS.html

Those numbers you posted is not flirting with a quadruple double lol.

Re: Another win w/o a pouting Rondo
« Reply #34 on: March 02, 2013, 11:19:24 AM »

Offline beklog

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Another win and another Celtics are playing better w/o Rondo thread
Amateurs worry about equipment, professionals worry about money, masters worry about light… I just take pictures…

Re: Another win w/o a pouting Rondo
« Reply #35 on: March 02, 2013, 11:20:54 AM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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TP to the original poster.  This team plays so much better without Rondo.

I have a question for those out there who say this team needs Rondo so badly

How many championships did Rondo ever win for the Celtics, if he is so valuable?

And 2008 doesn't count because I think PJ Brown who was their 3rd back up center played more of a role in the team going all the way than Rondo did.

Well, I do think that when Rondo does come back, perhaps he needs to grow a bit more and let Paul and others share the ball.

KG is even an elite passer for a big.

Some of that is on Doc....but I'm sure it will all work out.

I bolded your comment there, because one overlooked stat, sadly, is that in that clinching game 6 vs LA in BOS in June 2008, Rajon Rondo quietly flirted with a quadruple double:

21 pts, 7 rebs, 8 assists and SIX steals....all under 32 min.

He played less than Pierce, KG and Ray Allen in that game, too.

He was indeed showing signs of greatness even then, but was overshadowed somewhat by the Big Three.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200806170BOS.html

Those numbers you posted is not flirting with a quadruple double lol.

Well, what is your definition of it, then?

These threads are crazy, lol...first, Doug Collins - Doc Rivers....Jeff Green is playing better, so he's off the hook (for now).....

....and now we have another Rondo Thread.

What's next? A "Trade Danny Ainge" thread? ;D

Re: Another win w/o a pouting Rondo
« Reply #36 on: March 02, 2013, 11:25:00 AM »

Offline Lightskinsmurf

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TP to the original poster.  This team plays so much better without Rondo.

I have a question for those out there who say this team needs Rondo so badly

How many championships did Rondo ever win for the Celtics, if he is so valuable?

And 2008 doesn't count because I think PJ Brown who was their 3rd back up center played more of a role in the team going all the way than Rondo did.

Well, I do think that when Rondo does come back, perhaps he needs to grow a bit more and let Paul and others share the ball.

KG is even an elite passer for a big.

Some of that is on Doc....but I'm sure it will all work out.

I bolded your comment there, because one overlooked stat, sadly, is that in that clinching game 6 vs LA in BOS in June 2008, Rajon Rondo quietly flirted with a quadruple double:

21 pts, 7 rebs, 8 assists and SIX steals....all under 32 min.

He played less than Pierce, KG and Ray Allen in that game, too.

He was indeed showing signs of greatness even then, but was overshadowed somewhat by the Big Three.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200806170BOS.html

Those numbers you posted is not flirting with a quadruple double lol.

Well, what is your definition of it, then?

These threads are crazy, lol...first, Doug Collins - Doc Rivers....Jeff Green is playing better, so he's off the hook (for now).....

....and now we have another Rondo Thread.

What's next? A "Trade Danny Ainge" thread? ;D

21, 10, 9, 9. That's flirting with a quadruple double lol..And I'm pretty sure a thread similar to that has already been made. Don't think It was a trade danny thread but it was a bash danny thread, I think.

Re: Another win w/o a pouting Rondo
« Reply #37 on: March 02, 2013, 11:26:57 AM »

Online BballTim

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TO the OP:  Did you start threads like this when the Celtics were losing to Charlotte and Portland? .... and probably would have won in Portland and Charlotte with Rondo healthy.

With Rondo we lost games to Detroit (2), Phili (2), NO at home, and Sac among others.  The truth is that Rondo's minutes have been replaced with more minutes for Bradley, Lee, and Terry plus now minutes from Jordan Crawford and we are playing as good if not better.  Measure it how every you want, that is just black and white.

This either means that Rondo isn't as good as some think or that Bradley. Lee, Terry, Crawford are just as good as Rondo (or at least make an equal contribution to the team).  This very clearly proven reality seems very hard for people to accept.

  ...or it means that Pierce and Terry are healthier and playing better than they were, or it means that Rondo wasn't really healthy in January, or that Green's getting back into playing form after a year away from basketball or that the reeling Clippers were 1 of the 2 top 10 defenses we've faced since Rondo left compared to 6 bottom 10 defenses. It's not that people don't accept the clear proof, they realize that it doesn't exist.

Re: Another win w/o a pouting Rondo
« Reply #38 on: March 02, 2013, 11:29:05 AM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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TP to the original poster.  This team plays so much better without Rondo.

I have a question for those out there who say this team needs Rondo so badly

How many championships did Rondo ever win for the Celtics, if he is so valuable?

And 2008 doesn't count because I think PJ Brown who was their 3rd back up center played more of a role in the team going all the way than Rondo did.

Well, I do think that when Rondo does come back, perhaps he needs to grow a bit more and let Paul and others share the ball.

KG is even an elite passer for a big.

Some of that is on Doc....but I'm sure it will all work out.

I bolded your comment there, because one overlooked stat, sadly, is that in that clinching game 6 vs LA in BOS in June 2008, Rajon Rondo quietly flirted with a quadruple double:

21 pts, 7 rebs, 8 assists and SIX steals....all under 32 min.

He played less than Pierce, KG and Ray Allen in that game, too.

He was indeed showing signs of greatness even then, but was overshadowed somewhat by the Big Three.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200806170BOS.html

Those numbers you posted is not flirting with a quadruple double lol.

Well, what is your definition of it, then?

These threads are crazy, lol...first, Doug Collins - Doc Rivers....Jeff Green is playing better, so he's off the hook (for now).....

....and now we have another Rondo Thread.

What's next? A "Trade Danny Ainge" thread? ;D

21, 10, 9, 9. That's flirting with a quadruple double lol..And I'm pretty sure a thread similar to that has already been made. Don't think It was a trade danny thread but it was a bash danny thread, I think.

Oh C'mon, Man...that's close enough, lol

When we don't like certain players, we can generate enough statistics, plus/minus, incidents, etc - to paint a player a certain way.

You'd think that Ray Allen ate someone's kid by the way some of these threads speak of him.

Look - I'm just glad we're playing well without him.

But this team STILL needs him going forward.

This time off is hopefully showing him some things.

He WILL come back even better than before.

We need him.

Re: Another win w/o a pouting Rondo
« Reply #39 on: March 02, 2013, 11:32:54 AM »

Online BballTim

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TO the OP:  Did you start threads like this when the Celtics were losing to Charlotte and Portland? .... and probably would have won in Portland and Charlotte with Rondo healthy.

With Rondo we lost games to Detroit (2), Phili (2), NO at home, and Sac among others.  The truth is that Rondo's minutes have been replaced with more minutes for Bradley, Lee, and Terry plus now minutes from Jordan Crawford and we are playing as good if not better.  Measure it how every you want, that is just black and white.

This either means that Rondo isn't as good as some think or that Bradley. Lee, Terry, Crawford are just as good as Rondo (or at least make an equal contribution to the team).  This very clearly proven reality seems very hard for people to accept.


I think we won't really know about this team until the playoffs. If we somehow beat miami the rondo supporters will lose their minds lol.

  We weren't playing bad because of Rondo and much of our recent improvement is unrelated to Rondo leaving. If we beat the Heat it will go to show how dangerous the team would have been in the playoffs with Rondo on the team.

Re: Another win w/o a pouting Rondo
« Reply #40 on: March 02, 2013, 11:35:26 AM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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To the OP - I apologize if I come off wrong - no offense to you or any of the other OPs out there.

But why can't we just enjoy these wins without saying whose here or whatnot?

Rajon Rondo NEEDS to grow a bit and mature....but even the great Kobe Bryant has grown this year - he's learning to share the ball at THIS stage of his career, which is incredible.

And Kobe is 34. Rajon is ONLY 27...just turned 27, too...still in his prime.

I have absolutely NO doubt that Rajon Rondo will come back even better than before. He will lead this team far, and prove that he is just as good, if not better, than Chris Paul.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2013, 12:11:42 PM by GreenFaith1819 »

Re: Another win w/o a pouting Rondo
« Reply #41 on: March 02, 2013, 11:42:07 AM »

Online BballTim

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TO the OP:  Did you start threads like this when the Celtics were losing to Charlotte and Portland? Boston is winning their home games without Rondo.  NBA teams win home games.  Boston is 3-4 on the road since he went down, and probably would have won in Portland and Charlotte with Rondo healthy.

This whole "Rondo Pouting" stuff is foolishness.  The guy is great at running a team.  Now that he's not there, others are expanding their role and the Celtics are winning games.  If these players took it upon themselves to be more active, instead of waiting for Rondo to set the table for them, they would have been winning with Rondo.

One thing I do agree with the Rondo critics is that he wasn't held to a high standard defensively in the regular season. Pressuring the ball defensively has been a key reason why the Celtics have been winning.  Maybe when Rondo returns, he and Doc will have a different perspective on how much energy he can expend on the defensive end and still run the team.     

The regular season is a marathon, and teams, good and bad, go on runs, based on schedule, health, etc.  Let's see how the Cs do in a playoff series before we make and grand pronouncements about how the Celtics are better off without Rajon Rondo.

Definitely wouldn't say PROBABLY. Also that's not their fault. Rondo and doc both demand the ball to be in rondos hands like 95 percent of the time. He calls for the ball the very second someone gets a rebound. Also rondo is known for feeding pierce and KG and sometimes looking past the other guys.

You see it all the time with the lakers. When kobe starts holding the ball and shot jacking the other guys tend to just stand around. You ever try playing basketball with a ball hog? Its not fun. There's no doubt in my mind this team would be better if rondo was healthy and didn't hold the ball every possession for 20 seconds looking for an assist.

  And yet, without Rondo, we take the same number of shots at the end of the shot clock, about 2-3 possessions per quarter. We also average more shot clock violations without him. Rondo demanding the ball and holding it for the entire shot clock is people's memories of the occasional possession in a game reinforced by other people making the same claim.

Re: Another win w/o a pouting Rondo
« Reply #42 on: March 02, 2013, 11:45:32 AM »

Offline CelticsFan9

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TP to the original poster.  This team plays so much better without Rondo.

I have a question for those out there who say this team needs Rondo so badly

How many championships did Rondo ever win for the Celtics, if he is so valuable?

And 2008 doesn't count because I think PJ Brown who was their 3rd back up center played more of a role in the team going all the way than Rondo did.

When did Avery Bradley win us a championship?  Jeff Green?  Glen Davis?  Nate Robinson? Kendrick Perkins?  Courtney Lee?  Jason Terry?  Greg Stiemsma?  Marquis Daniels?  What about these guys?  Why the hell didn't they win us a championship?

This "Rondo makes us worse" thing is insane.  I'd love to pull up these threads when we get bounced in the first or second round.

To those who say Rondo is a ball hog who hurts our offense: You know what isn't going to be fun?  Watching our team unable to score against Miami, Chicago, Indiana, or any other team we may face in the playoffs who cares even a lick about defense.

After that, we'll see a bunch of, "Oh, man, if only we had Rondo, one of the few guys in the league capable of breaking down elite defenses."  And the best part: many of those posts will be coming from people. Who say we're better without Rondo.

This is disgusting.

Re: Another win w/o a pouting Rondo
« Reply #43 on: March 02, 2013, 11:48:04 AM »

Online BballTim

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TP to the original poster.  This team plays so much better without Rondo.

I have a question for those out there who say this team needs Rondo so badly

How many championships did Rondo ever win for the Celtics, if he is so valuable?

  There's a long list of players in the league that aren't valuable. Up until last year LeBron headlined the group, now you'd have to say Durant does.

And 2008 doesn't count because I think PJ Brown who was their 3rd back up center played more of a role in the team going all the way than Rondo did.

  I thought the list of 10 point guards better than Rondo was ridiculous but it pales in comparison to this.

Re: Another win w/o a pouting Rondo
« Reply #44 on: March 02, 2013, 11:50:41 AM »

Offline Lightskinsmurf

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TO the OP:  Did you start threads like this when the Celtics were losing to Charlotte and Portland? .... and probably would have won in Portland and Charlotte with Rondo healthy.

With Rondo we lost games to Detroit (2), Phili (2), NO at home, and Sac among others.  The truth is that Rondo's minutes have been replaced with more minutes for Bradley, Lee, and Terry plus now minutes from Jordan Crawford and we are playing as good if not better.  Measure it how every you want, that is just black and white.

This either means that Rondo isn't as good as some think or that Bradley. Lee, Terry, Crawford are just as good as Rondo (or at least make an equal contribution to the team).  This very clearly proven reality seems very hard for people to accept.


I think we won't really know about this team until the playoffs. If we somehow beat miami the rondo supporters will lose their minds lol.

  We weren't playing bad because of Rondo and much of our recent improvement is unrelated to Rondo leaving. If we beat the Heat it will go to show how dangerous the team would have been in the playoffs with Rondo on the team.

Whoa whoa WHOA! Really? So basically, no matter how bad we play with rondo its not his fault and no matter how good we play without him its irrelevant because we'd play much better with him even tho our 20-23 record says otherwise? Let me sum all this up........all hail the mighty rondo. Seriously tim, I have never seen a guy defend ANYONE the way you defend rondo lol. 

 

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