Another win w/o a pouting Rondo

[gpap]

TP to the original poster.  This team plays so much better without Rondo.

I have a question for those out there who say this team needs Rondo so badly

How many championships did Rondo ever win for the Celtics, if he is so valuable?

And 2008 doesn't count because I think PJ Brown who was their 3rd back up center played more of a role in the team going all the way than Rondo did.

[gpap]

If you think we are a better team without Rondo, I have some moon real estate for sale real cheap...

What's the mortgage going to cost?

[gpap]

Definitely wouldn't say PROBABLY. Also that's not their fault. Rondo and doc both demand the ball to be in rondos hands like 95 percent of the time. He calls for the ball the very second someone gets a rebound. Also rondo is known for feeding pierce and KG and sometimes looking past the other guys.

You see it all the time with the lakers. When kobe starts holding the ball and shot jacking the other guys tend to just stand around. You ever try playing basketball with a ball hog? Its not fun. There's no doubt in my mind this team would be better if rondo was healthy and didn't hold the ball every possession for 20 seconds looking for an assist.

Did you just try to compare Rondo, one of the two best set up PGs in the league, to Kobe when he jacks up 28 shots and freezes out the rest of his teammates?   That's lunacy.  A PG focusing too much on setting teammates is a lot different than a gunner hoisting up shot after shot while his teammates stand around.

If you want to argue that the Cs being to Rondo-centric hurt the team because they were easier to defend, because everyone wasn't as engaged as all around players, maybe I'll buy into that, but saying the Celtics players were being freezed out when on the floor with a guy who could get them the ball at any time, better than any other player in the entire league, save CP3, is lunacy. 

I've played with ball hogs, and I've played with pass first set up PGs.  I hated playing with a ball hog, but if he were on, I'd make sure to set picks for him and if he was off, I'd hit the offensive glass.  With the pass hungry PG, I'd make sure I was ready for the ball at all times. Players need to be MORE engaged with Rondo, lest a pass will hit them in the face.   

Rondo is not one of the 2 top PG's in the league. I could even argue he's not in the top 10
-CP3
-Westbrook
-Irving
-Deron Williams
-Steve Nash
-Tony Parker
-Derrick Rose
-Steph Curry
-Jason Kidd
-Mike Conley

[alajet]

Well, the most concrete criticism for Rondo could be not giving his 100% to every game. He is coasting through games at times. I don't think this is an attitude you look forward to see in your supposed team leader.
Rondo is in the league of elite PGs. Top 2, Top 5, Top 10, doesn't matter that much. If you aren't a replaceable piece of your team, you are elite. Ranking beyond that isn't really essential.

Aside from that, I don't think we are essentially a better team without him. It's just Jeff and the Captain stepping up big time that makes us winning games at the moment, which is something we didn't have when we had Rondo earlier on.

[Vermont Green]

TO the OP:  Did you start threads like this when the Celtics were losing to Charlotte and Portland? .... and probably would have won in Portland and Charlotte with Rondo healthy.

With Rondo we lost games to Detroit (2), Phili (2), NO at home, and Sac among others.  The truth is that Rondo's minutes have been replaced with more minutes for Bradley, Lee, and Terry plus now minutes from Jordan Crawford and we are playing as good if not better.  Measure it how every you want, that is just black and white.

This either means that Rondo isn't as good as some think or that Bradley. Lee, Terry, Crawford are just as good as Rondo (or at least make an equal contribution to the team).  This very clearly proven reality seems very hard for people to accept.

[Lightskinsmurf]

Definitely wouldn't say PROBABLY. Also that's not their fault. Rondo and doc both demand the ball to be in rondos hands like 95 percent of the time. He calls for the ball the very second someone gets a rebound. Also rondo is known for feeding pierce and KG and sometimes looking past the other guys.

You see it all the time with the lakers. When kobe starts holding the ball and shot jacking the other guys tend to just stand around. You ever try playing basketball with a ball hog? Its not fun. There's no doubt in my mind this team would be better if rondo was healthy and didn't hold the ball every possession for 20 seconds looking for an assist.

Did you just try to compare Rondo, one of the two best set up PGs in the league, to Kobe when he jacks up 28 shots and freezes out the rest of his teammates?   That's lunacy.  A PG focusing too much on setting teammates is a lot different than a gunner hoisting up shot after shot while his teammates stand around.

If you want to argue that the Cs being to Rondo-centric hurt the team because they were easier to defend, because everyone wasn't as engaged as all around players, maybe I'll buy into that, but saying the Celtics players were being freezed out when on the floor with a guy who could get them the ball at any time, better than any other player in the entire league, save CP3, is lunacy. 

I've played with ball hogs, and I've played with pass first set up PGs.  I hated playing with a ball hog, but if he were on, I'd make sure to set picks for him and if he was off, I'd hit the offensive glass.  With the pass hungry PG, I'd make sure I was ready for the ball at all times. Players need to be MORE engaged with Rondo, lest a pass will hit them in the face.   

I was hoping you could comprehend my point without saying what you just said, guess not...And yes that's what I was trying to argue. Rondo having the ball every possession for most of the shot clock hurt the team. This team plays better when they play freely not when someone dominates the ball.

[crimson_stallion]

Definitely wouldn't say PROBABLY. Also that's not their fault. Rondo and doc both demand the ball to be in rondos hands like 95 percent of the time. He calls for the ball the very second someone gets a rebound. Also rondo is known for feeding pierce and KG and sometimes looking past the other guys.

You see it all the time with the lakers. When kobe starts holding the ball and shot jacking the other guys tend to just stand around. You ever try playing basketball with a ball hog? Its not fun. There's no doubt in my mind this team would be better if rondo was healthy and didn't hold the ball every possession for 20 seconds looking for an assist.

Did you just try to compare Rondo, one of the two best set up PGs in the league, to Kobe when he jacks up 28 shots and freezes out the rest of his teammates?   That's lunacy.  A PG focusing too much on setting teammates is a lot different than a gunner hoisting up shot after shot while his teammates stand around.

If you want to argue that the Cs being to Rondo-centric hurt the team because they were easier to defend, because everyone wasn't as engaged as all around players, maybe I'll buy into that, but saying the Celtics players were being freezed out when on the floor with a guy who could get them the ball at any time, better than any other player in the entire league, save CP3, is lunacy. 

I've played with ball hogs, and I've played with pass first set up PGs.  I hated playing with a ball hog, but if he were on, I'd make sure to set picks for him and if he was off, I'd hit the offensive glass.  With the pass hungry PG, I'd make sure I was ready for the ball at all times. Players need to be MORE engaged with Rondo, lest a pass will hit them in the face.   

Rondo is not one of the 2 top PG's in the league. I could even argue he's not in the top 10
-CP3
-Westbrook
-Irving
-Deron Williams
-Steve Nash
-Tony Parker
-Derrick Rose
-Steph Curry
-Jason Kidd
-Mike Conley

I have more than my share of criticism for Rondo, but that list is garbage

The only guy on that list who is clearly above Rondo talent-wise is CP3.

Nash and Kidd aren't even CLOSE to Rondo's level at this point in their careers, and the rest of the guys on that list are primarilly scoring guards who happen to be decent passers.  Outside of Kidd, Nash, Deron and Paul not one of those guys has ever come close to Rondo as a passer and a playmaker, and three of those four who have (Kidd, Nash, Deron) have gone downhill hard as of late.

Rondo may have his issues (and yes, he has a lot of them) but he's a better POINT GUARD tthan everyone on that list bar Paul.

[Vermont Green]

What's our record without Rondo?  I have always said I'd wait the 38 games plus the playoffs to evaluate but it can't be ignored that a case is being made.  And again, its not about dumping rondo for nothing.  Honestly, I wish that DA could have any of the speculated deals using rondo before now.  I think he knew this all along.  Can you imagine having Curry on this team?

  The evaluation of the team shouldn't end when the playoffs start, it should begin when the playoffs start.

Yeah, I can see it now, after we lose in the playoffs to Indiana or Miami, the calls will come that "see, we told you so, we would have won if we had Rondo".

It is totally rhetorical to say even though the team is playing better in the regular season without Rondo, that it will definitely be different in the playoffs.  This is rhetorical because there is no way to compile evidence to prove or disprove this.

[saltlover]

Definitely wouldn't say PROBABLY. Also that's not their fault. Rondo and doc both demand the ball to be in rondos hands like 95 percent of the time. He calls for the ball the very second someone gets a rebound. Also rondo is known for feeding pierce and KG and sometimes looking past the other guys.

You see it all the time with the lakers. When kobe starts holding the ball and shot jacking the other guys tend to just stand around. You ever try playing basketball with a ball hog? Its not fun. There's no doubt in my mind this team would be better if rondo was healthy and didn't hold the ball every possession for 20 seconds looking for an assist.

Did you just try to compare Rondo, one of the two best set up PGs in the league, to Kobe when he jacks up 28 shots and freezes out the rest of his teammates?   That's lunacy.  A PG focusing too much on setting teammates is a lot different than a gunner hoisting up shot after shot while his teammates stand around.

If you want to argue that the Cs being to Rondo-centric hurt the team because they were easier to defend, because everyone wasn't as engaged as all around players, maybe I'll buy into that, but saying the Celtics players were being freezed out when on the floor with a guy who could get them the ball at any time, better than any other player in the entire league, save CP3, is lunacy. 

I've played with ball hogs, and I've played with pass first set up PGs.  I hated playing with a ball hog, but if he were on, I'd make sure to set picks for him and if he was off, I'd hit the offensive glass.  With the pass hungry PG, I'd make sure I was ready for the ball at all times. Players need to be MORE engaged with Rondo, lest a pass will hit them in the face.   

Rondo is not one of the 2 top PG's in the league. I could even argue he's not in the top 10
-CP3
-Westbrook
-Irving
-Deron Williams
-Steve Nash
-Tony Parker
-Derrick Rose
-Steph Curry
-Jason Kidd
-Mike Conley

lolz.  Jason Kidd is better than Rondo?  You say you can argue that.  Please, go right ahead.

[Lightskinsmurf]

TO the OP:  Did you start threads like this when the Celtics were losing to Charlotte and Portland? .... and probably would have won in Portland and Charlotte with Rondo healthy.

With Rondo we lost games to Detroit (2), Phili (2), NO at home, and Sac among others.  The truth is that Rondo's minutes have been replaced with more minutes for Bradley, Lee, and Terry plus now minutes from Jordan Crawford and we are playing as good if not better.  Measure it how every you want, that is just black and white.

This either means that Rondo isn't as good as some think or that Bradley. Lee, Terry, Crawford are just as good as Rondo (or at least make an equal contribution to the team).  This very clearly proven reality seems very hard for people to accept.

I think we won't really know about this team until the playoffs. If we somehow beat miami the rondo supporters will lose their minds lol.

[saltlover]

TO the OP:  Did you start threads like this when the Celtics were losing to Charlotte and Portland? .... and probably would have won in Portland and Charlotte with Rondo healthy.

With Rondo we lost games to Detroit (2), Phili (2), NO at home, and Sac among others.  The truth is that Rondo's minutes have been replaced with more minutes for Bradley, Lee, and Terry plus now minutes from Jordan Crawford and we are playing as good if not better.  Measure it how every you want, that is just black and white.

This either means that Rondo isn't as good as some think or that Bradley. Lee, Terry, Crawford are just as good as Rondo (or at least make an equal contribution to the team).  This very clearly proven reality seems very hard for people to accept.

I think we won't really know about this team until the playoffs. If we somehow beat miami the rondo supporters will lose their minds lol.

No, I'll be ecstatic.  Shocked as well, but ecstatic.  It won't make me think less of Rondo, however.  Last year we almost beat Miami, and it was pretty much a team of Rondo, KG, and Bass by that point.  Allen was hobbled, Pierce was hobbled, and everyone else was scrubs.  This year's team was supposed to be better, because we would have more depth and health.  It didn't start out well, but Green certainly wasn't at full strength, AB didn't play until early January.  JET has stunk most of the year, with and without Rondo.  Lee's played a little bit better.  Wilcox is heating up.  I like this year's team without Rondo better than last year's playoff team with Rondo, but it's not because of the absence of Rondo.  It's because we have 9 players capable of playing 20 minutes a night.  It's because when KG has an off night like last night, Wilcox is there to step up.  It's because Green on many nights can give us that 6th man quality we lacked last year.  It's because Bradley and Lee wreak havoc on opponents backcourts in ways that would make Ray Allen blush.  None of that was on last year's team, which again, took the Heat to the brink in the conference finals, with Rondo.

The only thing that will make me go crazy are inane threads like this, that are clearly trolling.

[GreenFaith1819]

TP to the original poster.  This team plays so much better without Rondo.

I have a question for those out there who say this team needs Rondo so badly

How many championships did Rondo ever win for the Celtics, if he is so valuable?

And 2008 doesn't count because I think PJ Brown who was their 3rd back up center played more of a role in the team going all the way than Rondo did.

Well, I do think that when Rondo does come back, perhaps he needs to grow a bit more and let Paul and others share the ball.

KG is even an elite passer for a big.

Some of that is on Doc....but I'm sure it will all work out.

I bolded your comment there, because one overlooked stat, sadly, is that in that clinching game 6 vs LA in BOS in June 2008, Rajon Rondo quietly flirted with a quadruple double:

21 pts, 7 rebs, 8 assists and SIX steals....all under 32 min.

He played less than Pierce, KG and Ray Allen in that game, too.

He was indeed showing signs of greatness even then, but was overshadowed somewhat by the Big Three.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200806170BOS.html

[Vermont Green]

Definitely wouldn't say PROBABLY. Also that's not their fault. Rondo and doc both demand the ball to be in rondos hands like 95 percent of the time. He calls for the ball the very second someone gets a rebound. Also rondo is known for feeding pierce and KG and sometimes looking past the other guys.

You see it all the time with the lakers. When kobe starts holding the ball and shot jacking the other guys tend to just stand around. You ever try playing basketball with a ball hog? Its not fun. There's no doubt in my mind this team would be better if rondo was healthy and didn't hold the ball every possession for 20 seconds looking for an assist.

Did you just try to compare Rondo, one of the two best set up PGs in the league, to Kobe when he jacks up 28 shots and freezes out the rest of his teammates?   That's lunacy.  A PG focusing too much on setting teammates is a lot different than a gunner hoisting up shot after shot while his teammates stand around.

If you want to argue that the Cs being to Rondo-centric hurt the team because they were easier to defend, because everyone wasn't as engaged as all around players, maybe I'll buy into that, but saying the Celtics players were being freezed out when on the floor with a guy who could get them the ball at any time, better than any other player in the entire league, save CP3, is lunacy. 

I've played with ball hogs, and I've played with pass first set up PGs.  I hated playing with a ball hog, but if he were on, I'd make sure to set picks for him and if he was off, I'd hit the offensive glass.  With the pass hungry PG, I'd make sure I was ready for the ball at all times. Players need to be MORE engaged with Rondo, lest a pass will hit them in the face.   

I was hoping you could comprehend my point without saying what you just said, guess not...And yes that's what I was trying to argue. Rondo having the ball every possession for most of the shot clock hurt the team. This team plays better when they play freely not when someone dominates the ball.

Ball hogs are no fun to play with but it is also no fun to play with someone who holds the ball always trying to make the home run pass.  In the group I play with, we seem to have more trouble with the latter.  The result is unnecessary turnovers more often than easy baskets (we are not as good as Rondo obviously).  After the second or third off-the-ball move with the same guy still dribbling around, you get frustrated.

[pearljammer10]

Hey sweet. Another better without rondo thread. Like we haven't heard enough of this nonsense already.

[BballTim]

Rondo is becoming one of the most underrated Celtics of all time

  Hard to disagree with that.