Another win w/o a pouting Rondo

[BballTim]

TP to the original poster.  This team plays so much better without Rondo.

I have a question for those out there who say this team needs Rondo so badly

How many championships did Rondo ever win for the Celtics, if he is so valuable?

And 2008 doesn't count because I think PJ Brown who was their 3rd back up center played more of a role in the team going all the way than Rondo did.

When did Avery Bradley win us a championship?  Jeff Green?  Glen Davis?  Nate Robinson? Kendrick Perkins?  Courtney Lee?  Jason Terry?  Greg Stiemsma?  Marquis Daniels?  What about these guys?  Why the hell didn't they win us a championship?

This "Rondo makes us worse" thing is insane.  I'd love to pull up these threads when we get bounced in the first or second round.

To those who say Rondo is a ball hog who hurts our offense: You know what isn't going to be fun?  Watching our team unable to score against Miami, Chicago, Indiana, or any other team we may face in the playoffs who cares even a lick about defense.

After that, we'll see a bunch of, "Oh, man, if only we had Rondo, one of the few guys in the league capable of breaking down elite defenses."  And the best part: many of those posts will be coming from people. Who say we're better without Rondo.

This is disgusting.

Oh, oh, pick me pick me! Because those guys are role players.

So if we're talking about stars, then how come Ray, Paul, and KG don't get the blame for not winning us championships in 2009, 2010, 2011, and last year?  Is it all Rondo's fault?

Well, of course it is.  Because, you know, Rondo hold the ball way too much.

Wait a minute!  Rondo is considered one of the best passers in the league and is great at getting teammates involved!

No, you're wrong, alter ego, because Rondo is a ball hog because I've watched him hold the ball for 20 seconds a couple times a game.

But, wait!  Carmelo, LeBron, Durant, and Kobe do that, so why don't they get criticized?

Because it's Rondo, and our record happened to be pretty bad with him, and it's slightly improved without him, so it's obviously HIS fault.  It is ALL Rondo's fault.

By the way LSS, I'm guessing you don't have an answer for the rest of my original post, so I'll just go on to the next Rondo critic.

You're talking to the wrong guy. I blame everyone that deserves blame. I'm one of the few guys on here that doesn't fanboy it up to ANYONE. Doc pierce KG idc. If they are hurting the team Ill call it.

  Claiming that you're not a fanboy doesn't magically add any accuracy to your opinions. It's admirable that you can be critical enough of Rondo to say that his having the ball so much hurts the team. But that doesn't change the fact that our best offensive play over the last few years (including this year) has come with Rondo controlling the ball on offense and "hunting for assists". In the grand scheme of things reconciling the fact that our best offense comes with Rondo controlling the ball with your claim that his controlling the ball hurts the team would go farther than insulting the people who point out the flaws in your analysis.

I'm done going in circles with you. No matter how much better or worse we look with rondo, no matter how much we win or lose without him, no matter how much better or worse people look playing beside him, none of that matters. You will defend rondo to the grave and you have made that extremely clear.

Therefore I see no point in going back and forth with you. You like to pull up numbers when they back your stance but ignore them when they don't. I use the eye test first then I resort to numbers. This team *This year* plays better when rondo doesn't dominate the ball, my eyes tell me that and our record tells me that.

I remember awhile back lebron had a triple double in a playoff game. If you just look at the numbers you'd say well, lebron played great. If you actually watch the game you would know that was the most irrelevant triple double ever and wasn't the case. Numbers only tell so much of the story. Watching the games and wins and losses tell more than any statistical number you bring up. So with that said, I'm done here.

I totally agree with this point.  In fact, I take it a step further and rarely look at those advanced stats and such for two reasons:

1.  I don't really understand them

2.  Once you start using them, I feel like you end up over-analyzing stuff about players.

The eye test has always been the route for me.

To connect this to the argument about Rondo: When I watch this team (since January 25, the day Rondo tore his ACL), they do play well, no question about it.  The ball moves, the defense is there, and guys are thriving in their roles; however, the Playoffs are a whole other beast, and that's when we'll miss Rondo most.

There are junctures in these past 15 or so games when we struggled to create offense.  Unsurprisingly, these junctures appear when the game is winding down, and usually end in pretty bad shot-selection (the ol' Pierce iso mainly).  So while we may be playing well right now, I think people should lower their expectations when the postseason rolls around, because that's when ALL of us (Rondo detractors, Rondo fanboys, and whatever's in between) will truly appreciate what Rondo does for this team.

  You also have to consider that in those 15 games we've played 7 of the bottom 10 defenses in the league and just 2 of the top 10. One of the top 10 defenses was the Clippers (our game was sandwiched between their losses to the Raptors and Wizards) and the Bulls game, in which our offense was abysmal.

[Meadowlark_Scal]

I just think that - even with all of Rondo's gifts - he is not perfect...no player is.

But we STILL have a gift in Rajon Rondo.

Poster "Who" posted a comment from Andre Iguodala (can't find it for the life of me) giving him much praise.

Even Kobe Bryant listed Rondo as one of his faves...

http://celticshub.com/2013/02/07/kobe-bryant-loves-rajon-rondo/

“You don’t want Rondo? Send him my way,” Kobe declared. “I love everything about him. Everything. I love his attitude, I love his chippiness, his edge, his intellect, his know-it-allness. All of it. That’s what makes championship players.

“What guard have you seen at his size that will get you 18 assists, 17 boards and 20 points all in one game? That’s unheard of. I love that kid. I always make a point of talking to him during All-Star [Weekend]. He’s one of my favorites.”

THAT is exactly right..I believe a PLAYER like Kobe knows much better than a POSTER here....Rondo is very good and we are lucky to have him...too bad our coach cannot find a way to make him better..and improve those things some here do not like.....no player is perfect..! Bradley fixes rondo's imperfections....that is why they work well togther...

[CoachBo]

It isn't an issue of whether Rondo is a quality player.

It's an issue that he no longer fits with the group of players Ainge has assembled. That is quite clear, and it has been for awhile. As I've said before, he was a perfect fit with three veteran, slowing All-Star scorers.

He is not a fit at all - in fact, he is an impediment - with the group Ainge has assembled right now, led by two veterans who struggle to score every night.

Exacerbated by Rondo's growing laziness on the defensive end of the floor.

Confident Ainge will move him in the off-season. As he should.

[Celtics18]

It isn't an issue of whether Rondo is a quality player.

It's an issue that he no longer fits with the group of players Ainge has assembled. That is quite clear, and it has been for awhile. As I've said before, he was a perfect fit with three veteran, slowing All-Star scorers.

He is not a fit at all - in fact, he is an impediment - with the group Ainge has assembled right now, led by two veterans who struggle to score every night.

Exacerbated by Rondo's growing laziness on the defensive end of the floor.

Confident Ainge will move him in the off-season. As he should.

I'm confused as to which players you don't think he fits with.  Personally, I think guys like Green, Bradley, Lee, and Wilcox--up-tempo guys--are going to be a great fit with Rondo for the future of this franchise. 

I'm looking forward to seeing the next phase of the Boston Celtics being a defensive minded up-tempo team, built around the strengths of Rajon Rondo. 

[Greenback]

The Celtics are clearly better without Rondo. 

What part of his game is really missed?  Its not his 65% free throw percentage.  Its not his 24% 3pt percentage.  Its not his defense.  Its not his attitude.  Not his stat padding consciousness.  Not his dominating rebounding presence in the paint.  Not his inability to close games with questionable decision making. 

Rondo and Doc are the reasons the Celtics have not won more than 1 title since the big 3 were formed.

Why are you all so hard on lightskinsmurf?

[Snakehead]

The Celtics are clearly better without Rondo. 

What part of his game is really missed?  Its not his 65% free throw percentage.  Its not his 24% 3pt percentage.  Its not his defense.  Its not his attitude.  Not his stat padding consciousness.  Not his dominating rebounding presence in the paint.  Not his inability to close games with questionable decision making. 

Rondo and Doc are the reasons the Celtics have not won more than 1 title since the big 3 were formed.

Why are you all so hard on lightskinsmurf?

Because he's wrong?  And I guess so are you.

Or I guess never has a player damaged his team more while making it to All-Star games, dominating playoff games, leading the league in assists, etc.  It's truly remarkable... almost.... nonsensical.

[scaryjerry]

The Celtics are clearly better without Rondo. 

What part of his game is really missed?  Its not his 65% free throw percentage.  Its not his 24% 3pt percentage.  Its not his defense.  Its not his attitude.  Not his stat padding consciousness.  Not his dominating rebounding presence in the paint.  Not his inability to close games with questionable decision making. 

Rondo and Doc are the reasons the Celtics have not won more than 1 title since the big 3 were formed.

Why are you all so hard on lightskinsmurf?

Lol. I'd say kgs injury was the biggest reason we only won one title there bub...as a matter of fact if kg wasn't out/hobbled the 2 seasons following our only title of the era..we probably 3 peat with rondo as a main cog.

Wasn't his fault we lost game 7 of the finals or lost last year in 7 to the heat....as a matter of fact he was the reason we made it that far...buy a clue

[Greenback]

I forgot to add that Rondo misses more Bunnies than Elmer Fudd

[Snakehead]

I forgot to add that Rondo misses more Bunnies than Elmer Fudd

Oh .613 eFG from inside this year, yeah that's so bad man.

http://www.82games.com/1213/12BOS1.HTM

and Pierce shoots .567 at the rim, he must be really bad huh?

http://www.82games.com/1213/12BOS9.HTM

[scaryjerry]

I forgot to add that Rondo misses more Bunnies than Elmer Fudd

Yet led guards in fg% without a reliable jumpshot

Cool

[BballTim]

It isn't an issue of whether Rondo is a quality player.

It's an issue that he no longer fits with the group of players Ainge has assembled. That is quite clear, and it has been for awhile. As I've said before, he was a perfect fit with three veteran, slowing All-Star scorers.

He is not a fit at all - in fact, he is an impediment - with the group Ainge has assembled right now, led by two veterans who struggle to score every night.

Exacerbated by Rondo's growing laziness on the defensive end of the floor.

Confident Ainge will move him in the off-season. As he should.

  I hope Danny knows better than that. The offense was fine with Rondo once we got things squared away last year, it was pretty good in the playoffs and it started out the year playing fine. I don't think Danny's memory is short enough that he's forgotten the deep playoff runs Rondo's led us on.

[BballTim]

I forgot to add that Rondo misses more Bunnies than Elmer Fudd

  Your analysis is off but at least you have your sense of humor. That was fairly amusing, even if it wasn't at all accurate.

[tarheelsxxiii]

Celtics are more consistent without Rondo. This isn't a shocker - he has the ball in his hands the entire game and he's super inconsistent in the regular season.

Celtics will struggle in the playoffs without Rondo. He's a star, and stars win playoff games/series. When it matters most, he is one of the best in the league.

[Lightskinsmurf]

I forgot to add that Rondo misses more Bunnies than Elmer Fudd

Lol!!!

[Vermont Green]

It isn't an issue of whether Rondo is a quality player.

It's an issue that he no longer fits with the group of players Ainge has assembled. That is quite clear, and it has been for awhile. As I've said before, he was a perfect fit with three veteran, slowing All-Star scorers.

He is not a fit at all - in fact, he is an impediment - with the group Ainge has assembled right now, led by two veterans who struggle to score every night.

Exacerbated by Rondo's growing laziness on the defensive end of the floor.

Confident Ainge will move him in the off-season. As he should.

I think Coach Bo is right in general.  I see the "problem" (if you want to call it that) with Rondo is that other teams have now universally figured him out and this will make it very difficult for him to change and just adopt the move the ball mentality that the current team is playing so well with.

This is a nuanced situation and hard to describe in a concise post.  Rondo is a good passer, no doubt, perhaps the best pure passer in the league, but he can't shoot (I know, he has a high EFg% but if you watch the games and come to the conclusion that Rondo is a good shooter, then just don't read any more of my post because you are not going to agree or understand any of it).

The problem is that Doc/Rondo can't figure out what to do with Rondo when he doesn't have the ball.  The other team doesn't cover him so it is like giving them another defender.  For a while they tried having him camp out at the extreme low post (almost under the basket) but that didn't really work.  So it always comes back to you might as well just let Rondo have the ball.  Then he dribbles around, compiles a ton of assists, and no one really likes playing with him (at least that is the story according to Doc).  Along the way, Rondo does make some fantastic plays but actually the team averages more assists when Rondo doesn't play.  For every easy dunk off a flashy pass, there is a shot against a double team because the other team isn't covering Rondo.

And defense, yes, our defense appears better without Rondo.  He seems to like to rebound, they count those, but he doesn't seem to care about just staying in front of him man and fighting through picks (there isn't a stat for that).  I know, I know, in the playoffs, he will be different.

Rondo is a player with unique skills but also some glaring weaknesses.  If we keep Rondo, we need to figure out a way to use him that doesn't kind of clog up the team.  Depending on what we get back, a trade may not be such a bad thing for the team either.