Author Topic: Scal interview on Rondo/Judas/KG/PP, being assistant coach , huge win in Utah  (Read 3741 times)

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Offline igorsure

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Again?  :)

Big Baby is out - never like this guy, fat, bad jump shot, bad attitude.
Ray is out - Judas, "that guy", betrayed us.
Rondo is out for season - team is better without him, selfish,  made everybody else worse

It is so simple to live in a Celtics fan's black&white world.  ;D 

Offline BudweiserCeltic

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Coincidentally, it was Ray who sacrificed the most out of the Big 3. So I'll take this perspective with a grain of salt. Sure, he had a different kind of mindset on approaching the game, but at the end of the day it was him who sacrificed the most, the one who got the less touches. At the end of the day, we're squabbling over semantics. So being in Allen's position, you know you're the one who's sacrificing the most, why wouldn't his mindset be about what more he can do to help this team? What is wrong with that all told?

All that said, Judas can go burn in hell for all I care, but these gripes people have over how Ray Allen's mindset with our team, lack of consideration about how hurt he sometimes played for us, sacrificed his body, pretty much giving us day in and day out everything he had to the limits of his physical ability, and lack of appreciation for that is in my view dumb.

But as I said, Ray Allen can go rot in hell.

Offline kgainez

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Having just listened to that part (starting around the 8:45 mark), Scal said that Ray Allen was a typical player who thought from a perspective of "the team needs to do more of what I'm good at".  RR/KG/PP are very atypical in thinking on a higher level. 

I don't think it's a bad or selfish thing.  It's more of a limitation and inability to see the big picture.  Not to get political, but it's the difference between a voter who thinks that what is good for the country is more of whatever improves his own personal position vs a voter who votes for what he thinks is good for the country, even if it is not in his personal financial best interest.

this makes much more sense.
thank you

Online csfansince60s

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sounds like Scal was calling him selfish but to Roy's point, it might have been more along the lines of being egocentric or even narcissistic - meaning he wanted to help the team win, but he was only concerned with how HE could help the team

if Rondo could help the team win by taking no shots, he would do it - that doesn't compute to Ray

Exactly, and that speaks volumes as to the character of each of those individuals.

I think these particularly salient points by Scal are especially [dang]ing and worth noting regarding Judas:

1. "Ray's focus and intent was not always on the Celtics winning."

2.Judas' point of view and interest being: "What do we need to do to get me more shots?"

True Celtic forever.  ::)




Offline igorsure

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It is just a difference between team leader and team player.
Team leader question - "How can our team win?"
Team player - "How can I do my best for team's win?"

And team just cannot have all it's players as leaders.



Online Roy H.

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It is just a difference between team leader and team player.
Team leader question - "How can our team win?"
Team player - "How can I do my best for team's win?"

And team just cannot have all it's players as leaders.

... and the other interesting thing is that Scal indicates that Rondo doesn't give 100% effort all the time.

I think that's interesting.  A team leader who tells other players what the team needs to do better to win, but doesn't give full effort.  It's just an interesting dichotomy.


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Offline BudweiserCeltic

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It is just a difference between team leader and team player.
Team leader question - "How can our team win?"
Team player - "How can I do my best for team's win?"

And team just cannot have all it's players as leaders.

... and the other interesting thing is that Scal indicates that Rondo doesn't give 100% effort all the time.

I think that's interesting.  A team leader who tells other players what the team needs to do better to win, but doesn't give full effort.  It's just an interesting dichotomy.

It was in full display early this year when he called out the team's effort, just to put up one of the worst efforts I've ever seen from him in the next game (don'r recall against who).

As they say, you have to walk the walk... it's what's maddening more than anything about Rondo.

Offline thirstyboots18

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Also, I get the general idea of the comment. I think Ray wasn't comfortable being option #4 and didn't like being pigeon holed in the offense as a corner 3-pt specialist, so he probably was more selfish than the others.

My previous post was more about having double standards of players' comments. Just because you don't like a player doesn't mean every public uttering has to be twisted around to make them sound like they are public enemy #1.

(Unless it's Kobe)

I was a dedicated Kobe hater, but now I find him very respectable compared to Judas.
I always liked Ray, even after he left, and even with the circumstances he left in.   I am finding myself admiring Kobe's game, in a Wilt Chamberlain sort of way.  Dang, he is good...I hate to admit how good he is; but I (foolishly,  perhaps) still  don't like him, or his game. (If that makes any sense...)
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Offline Clench123

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Coincidentally, it was Ray who sacrificed the most out of the Big 3.

Sorry bro, but I call BS on that.  How did he sacrificed more than KG who all of a sudden had to play center position but thrived in it regardless and didn't complain, who took way less money to come back this season than he should've just for the greater good of the team?

Or how did he sacrificed more than Paul, who has been the Celtic right from day one but still was on the trading block just like everyone else (including Ray)?

Ray didn't have to sacrifice much if at all.  His nagging injuries and diminishing talent dictated how he was supposed to be used. 


Offline Clench123

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It is just a difference between team leader and team player.
Team leader question - "How can our team win?"
Team player - "How can I do my best for team's win?"

And team just cannot have all it's players as leaders.

... and the other interesting thing is that Scal indicates that Rondo doesn't give 100% effort all the time.

I think that's interesting.  A team leader who tells other players what the team needs to do better to win, but doesn't give full effort.  It's just an interesting dichotomy.

So he had days when he didn't perform like he's suppose to.  Every player in the league have those days.  You can't bring it every game, you'll burn out fast.  Not even Rose brought it EVERY game.  Ironically though, Rondo was the most consistent player on the team before his season ending injury when you think of effort

Offline Bankshot

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Coincidentally, it was Ray who sacrificed the most out of the Big 3.

Sorry bro, but I call BS on that.  How did he sacrificed more than KG who all of a sudden had to play center position but thrived in it regardless and didn't complain, who took way less money to come back this season than he should've just for the greater good of the team?

Or how did he sacrificed more than Paul, who has been the Celtic right from day one but still was on the trading block just like everyone else (including Ray)?

Ray didn't have to sacrifice much if at all.  His nagging injuries and diminishing talent dictated how he was supposed to be used.

Yeah, I never was for that "Ray sacrificed the most" BS.  Personally, I think Pierce sacrificed the most.  He was the alpha dog of the Celtics and had to share the ball with 2 other players who were just as capable.  Paul was used to being "everything" to the Celtics for a period of time until Ray and KG came along and he was very willing to share.

Remember when people thought Paul was a selfish player? :-\
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Offline BudweiserCeltic

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Coincidentally, it was Ray who sacrificed the most out of the Big 3.

Sorry bro, but I call BS on that.  How did he sacrificed more than KG who all of a sudden had to play center position but thrived in it regardless and didn't complain, who took way less money to come back this season than he should've just for the greater good of the team?

Or how did he sacrificed more than Paul, who has been the Celtic right from day one but still was on the trading block just like everyone else (including Ray)?

Ray didn't have to sacrifice much if at all.  His nagging injuries and diminishing talent dictated how he was supposed to be used.

All of it irrelevant at the matter at hand, we're talking about the games here, not crap outside of the court.

KG played center? Well, Ray Allen played SF and at times played a bit of PG when needed.

Offline Clench123

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Coincidentally, it was Ray who sacrificed the most out of the Big 3.

Sorry bro, but I call BS on that.  How did he sacrificed more than KG who all of a sudden had to play center position but thrived in it regardless and didn't complain, who took way less money to come back this season than he should've just for the greater good of the team?

Or how did he sacrificed more than Paul, who has been the Celtic right from day one but still was on the trading block just like everyone else (including Ray)?

Ray didn't have to sacrifice much if at all.  His nagging injuries and diminishing talent dictated how he was supposed to be used.

All of it irrelevant at the matter at hand, we're talking about the games here, not crap outside of the court.

KG played center? Well, Ray Allen played SF and at times played a bit of PG when needed.

Paul did too (still doing it).  So...your point is...?

Offline bdm860

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Coincidentally, it was Ray who sacrificed the most out of the Big 3.

Sorry bro, but I call BS on that.  How did he sacrificed more than KG who all of a sudden had to play center position but thrived in it regardless and didn't complain, who took way less money to come back this season than he should've just for the greater good of the team?

Or how did he sacrificed more than Paul, who has been the Celtic right from day one but still was on the trading block just like everyone else (including Ray)?

Ray didn't have to sacrifice much if at all.  His nagging injuries and diminishing talent dictated how he was supposed to be used.

All of it irrelevant at the matter at hand, we're talking about the games here, not crap outside of the court.

KG played center? Well, Ray Allen played SF and at times played a bit of PG when needed.

Paul did too (still doing it).  So...your point is...?

From a team perspective, they were all used to being the alpha dog.  Now Pierce was the alpha on Offense, Garnett was the alpha on defense, and Ray was the alpha on shooting technicals?

In their first year in Boston, Ray got 36% less shot attempts, to Pierce's 24% decrease and Garnett's 21% decrease.  Ray's FGA continued to drop every year, while Pierce and Garnett's kind of plateaued (and they actually saw some increases in FGA in years 4 and 5, something Ray never got).

Similarly, Ray scored 34% fewer points that first year, while Pierce decreased 22%, and Garnett decreased 17%.

Ray Allen got 24% less assists, while Pierce got 10% more, and Garnett decreased by 17%.

From a Usage perspective, Ray saw a decrease of 27%, while Pierce and Garnett only decreased 19% each.

I'm sure there's a stat somewhere for touches or how long you have the ball in your hands, I just don't know where to find it.  But I imagined Ray decreased the most.


Sure, I think Ray Allen was the worst of the Big 3 too, and also his game fell off the most during his time in Boston, but I definitely understand the argument of Ray sacrificed the most.  He saw the biggest decrease in touches, shots, points, and plays where he created for others of the Big 3 while in Boston.  (Though not saying I don't see justification for the decreases).

He took the biggest decrease in production and got the least amount of credit.  That's a sound argument for "sacrificing the most" I think.  Though I guess you could argue that it wasn't a "sacrifice" it was just his natural decline, but then I'd fell like we're just talking semantics.


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Offline BudweiserCeltic

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Coincidentally, it was Ray who sacrificed the most out of the Big 3.

Sorry bro, but I call BS on that.  How did he sacrificed more than KG who all of a sudden had to play center position but thrived in it regardless and didn't complain, who took way less money to come back this season than he should've just for the greater good of the team?

Or how did he sacrificed more than Paul, who has been the Celtic right from day one but still was on the trading block just like everyone else (including Ray)?

Ray didn't have to sacrifice much if at all.  His nagging injuries and diminishing talent dictated how he was supposed to be used.

All of it irrelevant at the matter at hand, we're talking about the games here, not crap outside of the court.

KG played center? Well, Ray Allen played SF and at times played a bit of PG when needed.

Paul did too (still doing it).  So...your point is...?

My point is exactly that. KG playing center doesn't add much to that "sacrifice" aspect, particularly seeing how effective he's been there, and one can argue played better there.

Be aware that prior to coming to Boston, Ray Allen shot 21 shots a game in Seattle, the most between the Big 3. So yes, he's the one who sacrificed his offense the most between them. Not only that, it was quite evident that he was the 3rd or 4th choice in our offense most of the time, to the point that at times we had to go out of our way to give him some touches.

I don't know why that's even in dispute, and that being the case, his mindset of "what more I can do for this team" shouldn't be as vilified as you guys want to, on a hearsay of Scalabrine on top of it and his opinion, perspective, assumption.

 

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