Author Topic: Simple Question: Is Doc a great coach?  (Read 5456 times)

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Re: Simple Question: Is Doc a great coach?
« Reply #75 on: February 27, 2013, 09:25:55 PM »

Offline Lightskinsmurf

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But wait........docs teams has never exceeded their talent level.......they have played well below it tho...Doc has only won when he clearly had a superior team and even THEN they almost lost TWICE in the playoffs to teams no where near as good lol. I'm not here to say who is better than doc and who isn't. I'm here to say doc is overrated as hell, point blank period.

Please provide one clear example of a team Doc has coached that underachieved.  Surely you aren't saying any of the recent Celtics' seasons fit the bill?

If anything, I'd say they overachieved.  This team has been counted out by just about everybody over the last few years, but we're always there at the end with just as good of a chance as anyone.

I'm here to say, point blank, you're wrong.

Before rondo went down yes this years team was under achieving greatly. Unless you really felt we were a 20-23 team. It took our best player to go down to play better but we aren't better talent wise. It just shows how overrated doc is that he couldn't make it work before rondo went down.........As for the last sentence, lol, stop.

Re: Simple Question: Is Doc a great coach?
« Reply #76 on: February 27, 2013, 10:08:04 PM »

Offline celticsleyte

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It seems this topic is kind of polarizing.  I do not think Doc is awful by any means but I do not think he is any sort of basketball genius even back to his days as a player. If he was the Hawks may have been dangerous with the other pieces they had.

I think Doc is middle of the road vs the other Celtics coaches we have had since 1979.

His bias towards veterans is just sickening...giving Michael Finley some burn when there was obviously a fork sticking out his back is just one painfull example.  It is kind of hard for a bench player to be productive without a consistent chance to play because some washed up veteran has been taking your minutes for several weeks during the stretch run.

Re: Simple Question: Is Doc a great coach?
« Reply #77 on: February 27, 2013, 10:38:59 PM »

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"Is Doc a great coach?"
No

Re: Simple Question: Is Doc a great coach?
« Reply #78 on: February 27, 2013, 10:53:05 PM »

Offline Sec22

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It seems this topic is kind of polarizing.

The question is very broad, so there's plenty of room to argue. I think Doc is a strong motivator and excellent team builder. Those two things are critically important. I think he is good at coaching offensive and defensive schemes. And I appreciate that he's very accountable personally, and his teams have always been accountable.

I wonder about his game planning sometimes. That's hard to judge. I personally find it frustrating when people pick at little substitution pattern decisions, but I do have a hunch that he can over-think it sometimes. I think that on the whole the Celtics have a fairly mature attitude about officiating, and it seems as if Doc has said "leave that to me." That said, I think he could benefit from a "less is more" approach with the stripes. The incessant riding - right, wrong, and indifferent - just has to backfire at some point, and I think it does now and again.

Re: Simple Question: Is Doc a great coach?
« Reply #79 on: February 27, 2013, 10:56:36 PM »

Offline Snakehead

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I'd say yes, absolutely Glenn Doc Rivers is a great coach. Here's why:

1. One Banner and One Finals appearance since 07-08.

2. Other "Probable" Finals appearances and Banner
   opportunities were thwarted by none other than injuries
   (Perk, KG, Rondo)....

3. If we remember to just last summer - Doc Rivers was
   heavily rumored to be a candidate to coach the US Men's
   Olympic team in the future - along with Greg Popovich -
   another Great coach.

4. Someone name me another coach or team that has had to
   deal with the revolving door of personalities...egos...
   talents...that have come through BOS over the years:

   Marbury (08-09). The Blog, if I remember, almost
   imploded at mention of Stephon Marbury in Green. It
   happened, and the man performed admirably...even doing
   exactly what Doc said he would do "Marbury will help us
   win a game in the post-season (and he did just that).
   No other team would touch him, but he did well in BOS.

   Shaq. Doc got the last bit of good health out of the Big
   Shamrock right before the Big Fella just couldn't play
   anymore - and BOS looked unbeatable with Shaq....and Doc
   made it work.

Not to mention a constantly changing bench (PJ Brown, Posey, TA, Big Baby, JO, Sheed, Nate, etc, etc...

Doc's dealt with it all, and at the same time has kept BOS
as a contender for the last few years. Plus, he's done an OUTSTANDING job monitoring our older player's minutes (KG, especially).

For these and other reasons I'm sure have been mentioned here already, Glenn Doc Rivers is a Great Coach.

Only thing on that list that stands out is one championship and another finals appearance. Something spoelstra has done in his first two years since his big 3 formed. Doc is overrated. Most coaches in the league could have won with the 07-08 team.

  Obviously Spoelstra wouldn't have done as much in his first two years of LeBron had the same knee injury KG did. And most coaches could win with the rosters from the Spurs, Lakers, Bulls  or Heat teams as well. A list of coaches clearly better than Doc should include coaches whose team's results exceeded their talent level, not teams that won when they had the best players.

 

But wait........docs teams has never exceeded their talent level.......they have played well below it tho...Doc has only won when he clearly had a superior team and even THEN they almost lost TWICE in the playoffs to teams no where near as good lol. I'm not here to say who is better than doc and who isn't. I'm here to say doc is overrated as hell, point blank period.

Ha did you watch our depleted team last year come within one game of beating Miami?  Who went on to smoke OKC?  Or do you just pick and choose so you can prove that Doc sucks?


"I really don't want people to understand me." - Jordan Crawford

Re: Simple Question: Is Doc a great coach?
« Reply #80 on: February 27, 2013, 10:59:14 PM »

Offline BballTim

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But wait........docs teams has never exceeded their talent level.......they have played well below it tho...Doc has only won when he clearly had a superior team and even THEN they almost lost TWICE in the playoffs to teams no where near as good lol. I'm not here to say who is better than doc and who isn't. I'm here to say doc is overrated as hell, point blank period.

  The 08 team was the only team in modern nba history that won a title the same year that they added 2 of their top 3 scorers. Miami couldn't pull it off even though their top 3 were better than ours in 2008. Scoff at the tough playoff series if you want, what the Celts did that year was much more of an achievement than you realize. And, considering injuries, the Celts have represented themselves quite well since 2008, it's silly to claim that they've played below their talent level.

Re: Simple Question: Is Doc a great coach?
« Reply #81 on: February 27, 2013, 11:04:44 PM »

Offline BballTim

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But wait........docs teams has never exceeded their talent level.......they have played well below it tho...Doc has only won when he clearly had a superior team and even THEN they almost lost TWICE in the playoffs to teams no where near as good lol. I'm not here to say who is better than doc and who isn't. I'm here to say doc is overrated as hell, point blank period.

Please provide one clear example of a team Doc has coached that underachieved.  Surely you aren't saying any of the recent Celtics' seasons fit the bill?

If anything, I'd say they overachieved.  This team has been counted out by just about everybody over the last few years, but we're always there at the end with just as good of a chance as anyone.

I'm here to say, point blank, you're wrong.

Before rondo went down yes this years team was under achieving greatly. Unless you really felt we were a 20-23 team. It took our best player to go down to play better but we aren't better talent wise. It just shows how overrated doc is that he couldn't make it work before rondo went down.........As for the last sentence, lol, stop.

  The team would have been fine. The team was taking a while to come together but they'd have been ready for the playoffs, that's really what Doc's coaching for. We went to the finals in 2010, that's more important than the 27-27 finish to the regular season. We went to the ECF last year, that's more important than their 15-17 start. Don't read too much into our record in January.

Re: Simple Question: Is Doc a great coach?
« Reply #82 on: February 27, 2013, 11:10:31 PM »

Offline BballTim

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Doc is very comparable to Phil Jackson.  Obviously, Phil had a legendary career, so it's not really fair to compare Doc to him, but there are many similarities.

Like Phil, Doc is an decent "x's & o's" coach, but is best known for is unique ability to effectively manage high-maintenance personalities/ego's.

In the NBA, people skills are every bit as important as actual coaching.  Sometimes, even more important.


nice effort to compare him to a coaching legend...but just no....not on his level.

Idk it's like saying the bobcats history is comparable to the Celtics.

many think Phil is overrated because he had Jordan...but the last I checked before he had Phil he was known as a selfish player you could never win a title with, Phil essentially created mj the champion he wasn't just along for the ride like Mr rivers.

Great..he's likable...last title we won was because of Garnett spearheading thibodeaus defense  not really much to do with doc at all, sorry

  I think you better re-check your sources, nobody was saying MJ was a player you could never win a title with, and Phil certainly didn't "create" him. That's just ridiculous.
He was every bit  the individual player putting up stats and more so without Phil...Phil helped make him a team leader, a team player and a champion.
read the "Jordan rules". There was absolutely speculation and question whether you could win a title with Michael Jordan before Phil

  Phil happened onto the scene where he was coaching the best player in the league and the dominant players in the league over the previous 10 years or so were breaking down. The league was wide open at the time without any great teams/players to challenge the Bulls. Jordan did mature as a player. So did LeBron recently. That wasn't because of Spoelstra, it would have happened regardless.

Re: Simple Question: Is Doc a great coach?
« Reply #83 on: February 27, 2013, 11:18:50 PM »

Offline Lightskinsmurf

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I'd say yes, absolutely Glenn Doc Rivers is a great coach. Here's why:

1. One Banner and One Finals appearance since 07-08.

2. Other "Probable" Finals appearances and Banner
   opportunities were thwarted by none other than injuries
   (Perk, KG, Rondo)....

3. If we remember to just last summer - Doc Rivers was
   heavily rumored to be a candidate to coach the US Men's
   Olympic team in the future - along with Greg Popovich -
   another Great coach.

4. Someone name me another coach or team that has had to
   deal with the revolving door of personalities...egos...
   talents...that have come through BOS over the years:

   Marbury (08-09). The Blog, if I remember, almost
   imploded at mention of Stephon Marbury in Green. It
   happened, and the man performed admirably...even doing
   exactly what Doc said he would do "Marbury will help us
   win a game in the post-season (and he did just that).
   No other team would touch him, but he did well in BOS.

   Shaq. Doc got the last bit of good health out of the Big
   Shamrock right before the Big Fella just couldn't play
   anymore - and BOS looked unbeatable with Shaq....and Doc
   made it work.

Not to mention a constantly changing bench (PJ Brown, Posey, TA, Big Baby, JO, Sheed, Nate, etc, etc...

Doc's dealt with it all, and at the same time has kept BOS
as a contender for the last few years. Plus, he's done an OUTSTANDING job monitoring our older player's minutes (KG, especially).

For these and other reasons I'm sure have been mentioned here already, Glenn Doc Rivers is a Great Coach.

Only thing on that list that stands out is one championship and another finals appearance. Something spoelstra has done in his first two years since his big 3 formed. Doc is overrated. Most coaches in the league could have won with the 07-08 team.

  Obviously Spoelstra wouldn't have done as much in his first two years of LeBron had the same knee injury KG did. And most coaches could win with the rosters from the Spurs, Lakers, Bulls  or Heat teams as well. A list of coaches clearly better than Doc should include coaches whose team's results exceeded their talent level, not teams that won when they had the best players.

 

But wait........docs teams has never exceeded their talent level.......they have played well below it tho...Doc has only won when he clearly had a superior team and even THEN they almost lost TWICE in the playoffs to teams no where near as good lol. I'm not here to say who is better than doc and who isn't. I'm here to say doc is overrated as hell, point blank period.

Ha did you watch our depleted team last year come within one game of beating Miami?  Who went on to smoke OKC?  Or do you just pick and choose so you can prove that Doc sucks?

What you just said I have debunked so many times its getting tiring. You sit there and try to accuse me of picking and choosing yet you CHOOSE to IGNORE the fact that miami also had injuries and they had one injury that was more important than any injury we had *CHRIS BOSH*. You also ignore the fact that the toughest matchup we would have had to face we didn't because rose got hurt.

If nobody gets hurt there's a very good chance we never make it out the second round. If you're going to use the "The celtics were banged up" route then use it for everybody else too. Also them beating OKC has nothing to do with our series. The NBA is all about matchups. Please tell me you know this by now.

Re: Simple Question: Is Doc a great coach?
« Reply #84 on: February 27, 2013, 11:20:42 PM »

Offline Lightskinsmurf

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But wait........docs teams has never exceeded their talent level.......they have played well below it tho...Doc has only won when he clearly had a superior team and even THEN they almost lost TWICE in the playoffs to teams no where near as good lol. I'm not here to say who is better than doc and who isn't. I'm here to say doc is overrated as hell, point blank period.

Please provide one clear example of a team Doc has coached that underachieved.  Surely you aren't saying any of the recent Celtics' seasons fit the bill?

If anything, I'd say they overachieved.  This team has been counted out by just about everybody over the last few years, but we're always there at the end with just as good of a chance as anyone.

I'm here to say, point blank, you're wrong.

Before rondo went down yes this years team was under achieving greatly. Unless you really felt we were a 20-23 team. It took our best player to go down to play better but we aren't better talent wise. It just shows how overrated doc is that he couldn't make it work before rondo went down.........As for the last sentence, lol, stop.

  The team would have been fine. The team was taking a while to come together but they'd have been ready for the playoffs, that's really what Doc's coaching for. We went to the finals in 2010, that's more important than the 27-27 finish to the regular season. We went to the ECF last year, that's more important than their 15-17 start. Don't read too much into our record in January.

You don't know that. What happend in the past to other teams has nothing to do with what would have happend with this team. I'm going by what actually happend and what actually happend is we were 20-23 and underachieving greatly.

Re: Simple Question: Is Doc a great coach?
« Reply #85 on: February 28, 2013, 12:12:58 AM »

Offline BballTim

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But wait........docs teams has never exceeded their talent level.......they have played well below it tho...Doc has only won when he clearly had a superior team and even THEN they almost lost TWICE in the playoffs to teams no where near as good lol. I'm not here to say who is better than doc and who isn't. I'm here to say doc is overrated as hell, point blank period.

Please provide one clear example of a team Doc has coached that underachieved.  Surely you aren't saying any of the recent Celtics' seasons fit the bill?

If anything, I'd say they overachieved.  This team has been counted out by just about everybody over the last few years, but we're always there at the end with just as good of a chance as anyone.

I'm here to say, point blank, you're wrong.

Before rondo went down yes this years team was under achieving greatly. Unless you really felt we were a 20-23 team. It took our best player to go down to play better but we aren't better talent wise. It just shows how overrated doc is that he couldn't make it work before rondo went down.........As for the last sentence, lol, stop.

  The team would have been fine. The team was taking a while to come together but they'd have been ready for the playoffs, that's really what Doc's coaching for. We went to the finals in 2010, that's more important than the 27-27 finish to the regular season. We went to the ECF last year, that's more important than their 15-17 start. Don't read too much into our record in January.

You don't know that. What happend in the past to other teams has nothing to do with what would have happend with this team. I'm going by what actually happend and what actually happend is we were 20-23 and underachieving greatly.

  I wasn't talking about what happened in the past to other teams, I was talking about what happened in the past to these Celts.

Re: Simple Question: Is Doc a great coach?
« Reply #86 on: February 28, 2013, 06:30:49 AM »

Offline celtics2

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OK let's hang a banner for him. Get it over with before rabid Celtic fans crash. They need some fresh meat because this team as presently constructed is over achieving without Rondo and under achieving with him. It has to be Doc and his wizardly way of Coaching. I don't know why this is an issue. Just look at Doc's contribution as a Coach and show me where a Team actually got better because of himself. Facts are facts. Ignore them if you will to.

Re: Simple Question: Is Doc a great coach?
« Reply #87 on: February 28, 2013, 06:34:12 AM »

Offline BballTim

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OK let's hang a banner for him. Get it over with before rabid Celtic fans crash. They need some fresh meat because this team as presently constructed is over achieving without Rondo and under achieving with him. It has to be Doc and his wizardly way of Coaching. I don't know why this is an issue. Just look at Doc's contribution as a Coach and show me where a Team actually got better because of himself. Facts are facts. Ignore them if you will to.

  Facts are facts. All you have is some opinions.

Re: Simple Question: Is Doc a great coach?
« Reply #88 on: February 28, 2013, 08:11:17 AM »

Offline Snakehead

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I'd say yes, absolutely Glenn Doc Rivers is a great coach. Here's why:

1. One Banner and One Finals appearance since 07-08.

2. Other "Probable" Finals appearances and Banner
   opportunities were thwarted by none other than injuries
   (Perk, KG, Rondo)....

3. If we remember to just last summer - Doc Rivers was
   heavily rumored to be a candidate to coach the US Men's
   Olympic team in the future - along with Greg Popovich -
   another Great coach.

4. Someone name me another coach or team that has had to
   deal with the revolving door of personalities...egos...
   talents...that have come through BOS over the years:

   Marbury (08-09). The Blog, if I remember, almost
   imploded at mention of Stephon Marbury in Green. It
   happened, and the man performed admirably...even doing
   exactly what Doc said he would do "Marbury will help us
   win a game in the post-season (and he did just that).
   No other team would touch him, but he did well in BOS.

   Shaq. Doc got the last bit of good health out of the Big
   Shamrock right before the Big Fella just couldn't play
   anymore - and BOS looked unbeatable with Shaq....and Doc
   made it work.

Not to mention a constantly changing bench (PJ Brown, Posey, TA, Big Baby, JO, Sheed, Nate, etc, etc...

Doc's dealt with it all, and at the same time has kept BOS
as a contender for the last few years. Plus, he's done an OUTSTANDING job monitoring our older player's minutes (KG, especially).

For these and other reasons I'm sure have been mentioned here already, Glenn Doc Rivers is a Great Coach.

Only thing on that list that stands out is one championship and another finals appearance. Something spoelstra has done in his first two years since his big 3 formed. Doc is overrated. Most coaches in the league could have won with the 07-08 team.

  Obviously Spoelstra wouldn't have done as much in his first two years of LeBron had the same knee injury KG did. And most coaches could win with the rosters from the Spurs, Lakers, Bulls  or Heat teams as well. A list of coaches clearly better than Doc should include coaches whose team's results exceeded their talent level, not teams that won when they had the best players.

 

But wait........docs teams has never exceeded their talent level.......they have played well below it tho...Doc has only won when he clearly had a superior team and even THEN they almost lost TWICE in the playoffs to teams no where near as good lol. I'm not here to say who is better than doc and who isn't. I'm here to say doc is overrated as hell, point blank period.

Ha did you watch our depleted team last year come within one game of beating Miami?  Who went on to smoke OKC?  Or do you just pick and choose so you can prove that Doc sucks?

What you just said I have debunked so many times its getting tiring. You sit there and try to accuse me of picking and choosing yet you CHOOSE to IGNORE the fact that miami also had injuries and they had one injury that was more important than any injury we had *CHRIS BOSH*. You also ignore the fact that the toughest matchup we would have had to face we didn't because rose got hurt.

If nobody gets hurt there's a very good chance we never make it out the second round. If you're going to use the "The celtics were banged up" route then use it for everybody else too. Also them beating OKC has nothing to do with our series. The NBA is all about matchups. Please tell me you know this by now.

Wow.  I'm not picking and choosing anything, Miami's team with injury was better than our team with injury, Miami's team without injury was better than our team without injury.

And matchups be [dang]ed, seeing a team everyone things is a powerhouse get steamrolled by Miami shows that we put up a great fight.


"I really don't want people to understand me." - Jordan Crawford

Re: Simple Question: Is Doc a great coach?
« Reply #89 on: February 28, 2013, 11:27:34 AM »

Offline kgainez

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i do think is a much better playoff series coach than regular season
and i think that's because he plays strictly from matchups. and then of course, you play them more than once, you start to understand certain things

and whle we overachieved last year, i think, for a team with a broken PP, Ray, Steamer...we were close to ECF. I mean...we won 3.5 quarters of game 6. then something happened...I have no clue what. It just stopped.

but my point was even tho that happened, we went 6 games with a wack ATL and 7 with the sixers. smh.

i'd be a tinch happier if he utilized the talent before we had an opp to go sub500. i don't think team should've ever been sub 500 unless we lost our first game. we were, as constructed, easily 2 or 3...when Rondo goes down, 3-5. no reason we should be fighting for #7 but we are.

 

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