Author Topic: Simple Question: Is Doc a great coach?  (Read 5469 times)

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Re: Simple Question: Is Doc a great coach?
« Reply #60 on: February 27, 2013, 05:22:52 PM »

Offline celtics2

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I don't think Ainge has always given Doc the right personnel.  Ainge seems to keep trying to add "instant offense" players to the bench.  I think Doc's coaching style would be better served by adding defense-oriented players and letting Doc figure out the offense.  You're not going to earn Doc's trust by scoring enough to outweigh your defensive liabilities.

You're right, he needs an All Star Team.

Re: Simple Question: Is Doc a great coach?
« Reply #61 on: February 27, 2013, 05:26:53 PM »

Offline kgainez

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I'd say yes, absolutely Glenn Doc Rivers is a great coach. Here's why:

1. One Banner and One Finals appearance since 07-08.

2. Other "Probable" Finals appearances and Banner
   opportunities were thwarted by none other than injuries
   (Perk, KG, Rondo)....

3. If we remember to just last summer - Doc Rivers was
   heavily rumored to be a candidate to coach the US Men's
   Olympic team in the future - along with Greg Popovich -
   another Great coach.

4. Someone name me another coach or team that has had to
   deal with the revolving door of personalities...egos...
   talents...that have come through BOS over the years:

   Marbury (08-09). The Blog, if I remember, almost
   imploded at mention of Stephon Marbury in Green. It
   happened, and the man performed admirably...even doing
   exactly what Doc said he would do "Marbury will help us
   win a game in the post-season (and he did just that).
   No other team would touch him, but he did well in BOS.

   Shaq. Doc got the last bit of good health out of the Big
   Shamrock right before the Big Fella just couldn't play
   anymore - and BOS looked unbeatable with Shaq....and Doc
   made it work.

Not to mention a constantly changing bench (PJ Brown, Posey, TA, Big Baby, JO, Sheed, Nate, etc, etc...

Doc's dealt with it all, and at the same time has kept BOS
as a contender for the last few years. Plus, he's done an OUTSTANDING job monitoring our older player's minutes (KG, especially).

For these and other reasons I'm sure have been mentioned here already, Glenn Doc Rivers is a Great Coach.

Only thing on that list that stands out is one championship and another finals appearance. Something spoelstra has done in his first two years since his big 3 formed. Doc is overrated. Most coaches in the league could have won with the 07-08 team. He doesn't get the best out of his players, his rotations blow, he relies too heavily on the vets, he thought playing terry like he was ray allen was a great idea. He relies on pierce ISO to win every game that comes down to the last shot even tho it works like 20-30 percent of the time.

Sully and bass playing together was another doc rivers special, the last 3 years his teams have been extremely inconsistent, it took our best player to go down to start playing better *Something that should NEVER happen*. I could go on and on, doc is so overrated its hysterical. Nothing he has done has made me say to myself wow, doc is a GREAT COACH. Hes *good* at BEST and even that's pushing it in my opinion. Watching this guy coach sometimes i honestly think most of us on here would do better just by using common sense alone.

not to mention #2 on the list is something you have no clue about, #3 is JUST a rumor and nothing came to fruition (and probably won't coming up).
I think #4 is the a prime example of how we overrate Doc. No other coach has to coach diff personalities? there are coaches who have two completely different teams between seasons. get out.

and I was going to add to mine, I think Doc is good along with the likes of frickin Doug Collins, Mike Woodson, Frank Vogel.

my fav coach this year aside from Pop is Thibs. He's got a winning team without their star player with a bunch of guys you wouldn't expect things from. You expect big things from a KG and PP and I think with a Thibs we'd be a top 4 seed right now. With a Pop we'd be #1 seed with multiple championships.

Re: Simple Question: Is Doc a great coach?
« Reply #62 on: February 27, 2013, 05:27:18 PM »

Offline celtics2

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Doc in his 1st 7 years didn't average 500, in fact got fired once.

Um, you left out the part about him winning Coach of the Year.

Ever see the Oscar winners?

Re: Simple Question: Is Doc a great coach?
« Reply #63 on: February 27, 2013, 05:29:00 PM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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I'd say yes, absolutely Glenn Doc Rivers is a great coach. Here's why:

1. One Banner and One Finals appearance since 07-08.

2. Other "Probable" Finals appearances and Banner
   opportunities were thwarted by none other than injuries
   (Perk, KG, Rondo)....

3. If we remember to just last summer - Doc Rivers was
   heavily rumored to be a candidate to coach the US Men's
   Olympic team in the future - along with Greg Popovich -
   another Great coach.

4. Someone name me another coach or team that has had to
   deal with the revolving door of personalities...egos...
   talents...that have come through BOS over the years:

   Marbury (08-09). The Blog, if I remember, almost
   imploded at mention of Stephon Marbury in Green. It
   happened, and the man performed admirably...even doing
   exactly what Doc said he would do "Marbury will help us
   win a game in the post-season (and he did just that).
   No other team would touch him, but he did well in BOS.

   Shaq. Doc got the last bit of good health out of the Big
   Shamrock right before the Big Fella just couldn't play
   anymore - and BOS looked unbeatable with Shaq....and Doc
   made it work.

Not to mention a constantly changing bench (PJ Brown, Posey, TA, Big Baby, JO, Sheed, Nate, etc, etc...

Doc's dealt with it all, and at the same time has kept BOS
as a contender for the last few years. Plus, he's done an OUTSTANDING job monitoring our older player's minutes (KG, especially).

For these and other reasons I'm sure have been mentioned here already, Glenn Doc Rivers is a Great Coach.

Only thing on that list that stands out is one championship and another finals appearance. Something spoelstra has done in his first two years since his big 3 formed. Doc is overrated. Most coaches in the league could have won with the 07-08 team. He doesn't get the best out of his players, his rotations blow, he relies too heavily on the vets, he thought playing terry like he was ray allen was a great idea. He relies on pierce ISO to win every game that comes down to the last shot even tho it works like 20-30 percent of the time.

Sully and bass playing together was another doc rivers special, the last 3 years his teams have been extremely inconsistent, it took our best player to go down to start playing better *Something that should NEVER happen*. I could go on and on, doc is so overrated its hysterical. Nothing he has done has made me say to myself wow, doc is a GREAT COACH. Hes *good* at BEST and even that's pushing it in my opinion. Watching this guy coach sometimes i honestly think most of us on here would do better just by using common sense alone.

Well...you are obviously set on Doc being what you stated, so I'll leave it at that.

But as a man who went toe to toe with one of the greatest Basketball minds out there in Phil Jackson in 07-08 (and was commented on during parts of the series as coaching VERY WELL head-to-head vs Phil) - I still believe that Glenn Doc Rivers is a Great Coach.

I cannot convince you otherwise, and you can't convince me otherwise.

Let's just shake hands and agree to disagree.

Re: Simple Question: Is Doc a great coach?
« Reply #64 on: February 27, 2013, 05:59:46 PM »

Offline Redz

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Is it fair to say he is a "very good" coach who will end up having a great coaching career?

No

and here I thought I was being fair

GOCELTS

Re: Simple Question: Is Doc a great coach?
« Reply #65 on: February 27, 2013, 06:24:32 PM »

Offline scaryjerry

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Doc is very comparable to Phil Jackson.  Obviously, Phil had a legendary career, so it's not really fair to compare Doc to him, but there are many similarities.

Like Phil, Doc is an decent "x's & o's" coach, but is best known for is unique ability to effectively manage high-maintenance personalities/ego's.

In the NBA, people skills are every bit as important as actual coaching.  Sometimes, even more important.


nice effort to compare him to a coaching legend...but just no....not on his level.

Idk it's like saying the bobcats history is comparable to the Celtics.

many think Phil is overrated because he had Jordan...but the last I checked before he had Phil he was known as a selfish player you could never win a title with, Phil essentially created mj the champion he wasn't just along for the ride like Mr rivers.

Great..he's likable...last title we won was because of Garnett spearheading thibodeaus defense  not really much to do with doc at all, sorry

  I think you better re-check your sources, nobody was saying MJ was a player you could never win a title with, and Phil certainly didn't "create" him. That's just ridiculous.
He was every bit  the individual player putting up stats and more so without Phil...Phil helped make him a team leader, a team player and a champion.
read the "Jordan rules". There was absolutely speculation and question whether you could win a title with Michael Jordan before Phil

Re: Simple Question: Is Doc a great coach?
« Reply #66 on: February 27, 2013, 08:18:48 PM »

Offline mctyson

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Coaching is a tricky subject.  Doc obviously is great at some things, because if he wasn't, the team would suck.

Re: Simple Question: Is Doc a great coach?
« Reply #67 on: February 27, 2013, 08:21:51 PM »

Offline Meadowlark_Scal

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I don't think he is. I've seen little evidence of it. Doug Collins looks like one...HE gats a LOT out of a little.....O'Brien too, Popovich.....If we traded KG, you would see we have only a guy in a suit that has been around the league for a while. Pulling the hot hand out of the game, sitting rebounders, overplaying players..

Re: Simple Question: Is Doc a great coach?
« Reply #68 on: February 27, 2013, 08:39:51 PM »

Offline BballTim

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I'd say yes, absolutely Glenn Doc Rivers is a great coach. Here's why:

1. One Banner and One Finals appearance since 07-08.

2. Other "Probable" Finals appearances and Banner
   opportunities were thwarted by none other than injuries
   (Perk, KG, Rondo)....

3. If we remember to just last summer - Doc Rivers was
   heavily rumored to be a candidate to coach the US Men's
   Olympic team in the future - along with Greg Popovich -
   another Great coach.

4. Someone name me another coach or team that has had to
   deal with the revolving door of personalities...egos...
   talents...that have come through BOS over the years:

   Marbury (08-09). The Blog, if I remember, almost
   imploded at mention of Stephon Marbury in Green. It
   happened, and the man performed admirably...even doing
   exactly what Doc said he would do "Marbury will help us
   win a game in the post-season (and he did just that).
   No other team would touch him, but he did well in BOS.

   Shaq. Doc got the last bit of good health out of the Big
   Shamrock right before the Big Fella just couldn't play
   anymore - and BOS looked unbeatable with Shaq....and Doc
   made it work.

Not to mention a constantly changing bench (PJ Brown, Posey, TA, Big Baby, JO, Sheed, Nate, etc, etc...

Doc's dealt with it all, and at the same time has kept BOS
as a contender for the last few years. Plus, he's done an OUTSTANDING job monitoring our older player's minutes (KG, especially).

For these and other reasons I'm sure have been mentioned here already, Glenn Doc Rivers is a Great Coach.

Only thing on that list that stands out is one championship and another finals appearance. Something spoelstra has done in his first two years since his big 3 formed. Doc is overrated. Most coaches in the league could have won with the 07-08 team.

  Obviously Spoelstra wouldn't have done as much in his first two years of LeBron had the same knee injury KG did. And most coaches could win with the rosters from the Spurs, Lakers, Bulls  or Heat teams as well. A list of coaches clearly better than Doc should include coaches whose team's results exceeded their talent level, not teams that won when they had the best players.

 

Re: Simple Question: Is Doc a great coach?
« Reply #69 on: February 27, 2013, 08:43:07 PM »

Offline ManUp

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No.

IMO, Greg Popovich is the only "great" coach in the league right now. Thibs is also looking like a great coach early in his head coaching career. You can do a lot worse than Doc, but you can also do better. I also consider guys like Adelman, and Carlisle better. IMO, Doc is a great at drawing plays and inspiring faith in his players. He' not too impressive on the other stuff.

He's arguably top 5.

Re: Simple Question: Is Doc a great coach?
« Reply #70 on: February 27, 2013, 08:47:57 PM »

Offline Lightskinsmurf

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I'd say yes, absolutely Glenn Doc Rivers is a great coach. Here's why:

1. One Banner and One Finals appearance since 07-08.

2. Other "Probable" Finals appearances and Banner
   opportunities were thwarted by none other than injuries
   (Perk, KG, Rondo)....

3. If we remember to just last summer - Doc Rivers was
   heavily rumored to be a candidate to coach the US Men's
   Olympic team in the future - along with Greg Popovich -
   another Great coach.

4. Someone name me another coach or team that has had to
   deal with the revolving door of personalities...egos...
   talents...that have come through BOS over the years:

   Marbury (08-09). The Blog, if I remember, almost
   imploded at mention of Stephon Marbury in Green. It
   happened, and the man performed admirably...even doing
   exactly what Doc said he would do "Marbury will help us
   win a game in the post-season (and he did just that).
   No other team would touch him, but he did well in BOS.

   Shaq. Doc got the last bit of good health out of the Big
   Shamrock right before the Big Fella just couldn't play
   anymore - and BOS looked unbeatable with Shaq....and Doc
   made it work.

Not to mention a constantly changing bench (PJ Brown, Posey, TA, Big Baby, JO, Sheed, Nate, etc, etc...

Doc's dealt with it all, and at the same time has kept BOS
as a contender for the last few years. Plus, he's done an OUTSTANDING job monitoring our older player's minutes (KG, especially).

For these and other reasons I'm sure have been mentioned here already, Glenn Doc Rivers is a Great Coach.

Only thing on that list that stands out is one championship and another finals appearance. Something spoelstra has done in his first two years since his big 3 formed. Doc is overrated. Most coaches in the league could have won with the 07-08 team.

  Obviously Spoelstra wouldn't have done as much in his first two years of LeBron had the same knee injury KG did. And most coaches could win with the rosters from the Spurs, Lakers, Bulls  or Heat teams as well. A list of coaches clearly better than Doc should include coaches whose team's results exceeded their talent level, not teams that won when they had the best players.

 

But wait........docs teams has never exceeded their talent level.......they have played well below it tho...Doc has only won when he clearly had a superior team and even THEN they almost lost TWICE in the playoffs to teams no where near as good lol. I'm not here to say who is better than doc and who isn't. I'm here to say doc is overrated as hell, point blank period.

Re: Simple Question: Is Doc a great coach?
« Reply #71 on: February 27, 2013, 09:01:51 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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For right now, for today's game, he's great because he can lure people to your team on top of his results.

All time, he's good. Like Rudy T good. Like Bill Fitch good. Like Red Holzman good.

Re: Simple Question: Is Doc a great coach?
« Reply #72 on: February 27, 2013, 09:07:08 PM »

Offline LooseCannon

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I think we should do a series of 29 polls, asking "Is Doc better than..." for every other current NBA coach.
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Re: Simple Question: Is Doc a great coach?
« Reply #73 on: February 27, 2013, 09:08:21 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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But wait........docs teams has never exceeded their talent level.......they have played well below it tho...Doc has only won when he clearly had a superior team and even THEN they almost lost TWICE in the playoffs to teams no where near as good lol. I'm not here to say who is better than doc and who isn't. I'm here to say doc is overrated as hell, point blank period.

Please provide one clear example of a team Doc has coached that underachieved.  Surely you aren't saying any of the recent Celtics' seasons fit the bill?

If anything, I'd say they overachieved.  This team has been counted out by just about everybody over the last few years, but we're always there at the end with just as good of a chance as anyone.

I'm here to say, point blank, you're wrong.

Re: Simple Question: Is Doc a great coach?
« Reply #74 on: February 27, 2013, 09:24:24 PM »

Offline eja117

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Doc is clearly a good coach.  We need to see what he does without KG and Pierce before you can call him a great coach.  Before KG and Ray came to town, Doc's coaching career was closer to Sam Mitchell's than Popovich's, Jackson's or even Thib's.

Mike

This is a ridiculous statement.

You don't even consider personnel in any of your logic.  Because of course Pop had no talent and Doc had plenty before the big three arrived right?   ::)


I don't think Ainge has always given Doc the right personnel.  Ainge seems to keep trying to add "instant offense" players to the bench.  I think Doc's coaching style would be better served by adding defense-oriented players and letting Doc figure out the offense.  You're not going to earn Doc's trust by scoring enough to outweigh your defensive liabilities.

This is actually a very interesting point.  Something worth considering for sure.

Danny doesn't want to pay for height but I wonder what a big, defensive minded team would look like being coached by Doc.



I don't think he's done anything that other coaches couldn't have done, and he's made a lot of mistakes and has leaned heavily on great assistants like Thibs and Ray and to a lesser extent Frank. But I think he's above average and at times has been very good. He totally dismantled Phil Jackson in the finals.  However he just allows way too many shenanigans and doesn't lay down the law enough. The entire regular season of Sheed was a mail in -collect my check -type travesty and I think the players saw that

Rasheed Wallace did exactly what he's always done: but very talented but just about the most unprofessional player in the league.  How he acts doesn't apply to other players or let them know they can "get something over".  And Doc didn't manage to corral him like NO ONE has ever managed to corral him. 

Sheed was a grown man.  He is who he is, this isn't college and he isn't in his early 20's.
So you think that was the type of season the Celts were signing up for and expecting? You don't think it had any effect on Glen Davis?  Granted I think Glen would have been selfish anyway in a contract year, but still

 

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