Author Topic: Doc starts Coaching Celts start Losing  (Read 7612 times)

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Re: Doc starts Coaching Celts start Losing
« Reply #45 on: March 27, 2013, 03:28:48 PM »

Offline Chief

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Look at our rotation and then tell me this is Doc's fault.

We're missing four of our starters.  Let me say that again:  our starting PG, SG, PF and C are all injured. 

We gave 40 minutes to a guy who couldn't get on the court in Washington.  The worst part is that he deserved it - not because he's so good, but because he's the best of a bad situation. 

No coach in the league could win with the squad we suited up tonight.

Not if they went 3 sgs and 2 sf for a large portion of the game.

That sounds insane. Some might not think much of our new bigs, but they are big. Basketball has not changed that much in the last 50 years. Big men are an important part of the game. You play who you got, in their right positions, and then outcoach the other team.

Doc is trying to reinvent the wheel. Right now he's got a triangle.

Basketball has changed drastically in the last 50 years.
This article from Zach Lowe, just the other day, highlights that as well as anything (and, really, any work Lowe has done this year shows how much the game has changed and evolved):

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/9098417/how-miami-heat-went-historic-winning-streak-came-dominate-league

To say that a team, missing 4/5ths of its starting lineup just needs to play some bigs to right the ship seems to be putting a bit too much faith in the strength of an antiquated system.

It works when you have the greatest player on the planet. We don't.

That doesn't mean you go back to a system that isn't working for anyone. Defenses are so wildly more sophisticated now. And, yes, Lowe was looking at The Heat but he has written numerous other articles on a variety of teams, all of which pinpoint how the game has developed and changed. The Heat in that article are an example, the best one, of how offenses, and defenses, have changed. If you really think the answer to a team's woes, any teams, is to regress to an offensive or defensive scheme that most every team has figured out how to stop, or succeed against, well, we think fundamentally differently.

I think Indiana and Memphis play a very similar style as the 1980s Celtics. Seems to be working there.
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Re: Doc starts Coaching Celts start Losing
« Reply #46 on: March 27, 2013, 04:04:33 PM »

Offline ChainSmokingLikeDino

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Look at our rotation and then tell me this is Doc's fault.

We're missing four of our starters.  Let me say that again:  our starting PG, SG, PF and C are all injured. 

We gave 40 minutes to a guy who couldn't get on the court in Washington.  The worst part is that he deserved it - not because he's so good, but because he's the best of a bad situation. 

No coach in the league could win with the squad we suited up tonight.

Not if they went 3 sgs and 2 sf for a large portion of the game.

That sounds insane. Some might not think much of our new bigs, but they are big. Basketball has not changed that much in the last 50 years. Big men are an important part of the game. You play who you got, in their right positions, and then outcoach the other team.

Doc is trying to reinvent the wheel. Right now he's got a triangle.

Basketball has changed drastically in the last 50 years.
This article from Zach Lowe, just the other day, highlights that as well as anything (and, really, any work Lowe has done this year shows how much the game has changed and evolved):

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/9098417/how-miami-heat-went-historic-winning-streak-came-dominate-league

To say that a team, missing 4/5ths of its starting lineup just needs to play some bigs to right the ship seems to be putting a bit too much faith in the strength of an antiquated system.

It works when you have the greatest player on the planet. We don't.

That doesn't mean you go back to a system that isn't working for anyone. Defenses are so wildly more sophisticated now. And, yes, Lowe was looking at The Heat but he has written numerous other articles on a variety of teams, all of which pinpoint how the game has developed and changed. The Heat in that article are an example, the best one, of how offenses, and defenses, have changed. If you really think the answer to a team's woes, any teams, is to regress to an offensive or defensive scheme that most every team has figured out how to stop, or succeed against, well, we think fundamentally differently.

I think Indiana and Memphis play a very similar style as the 1980s Celtics. Seems to be working there.

I would still say those offenses and defenses run very differently from the 80's C's. Indiana suffers when they try and utilize Hibbert as a classic post-up big man (though he is playing better than the beginning of the year, but that was abysmal). Memphis's center, Gasol, plays best from the elbow. He is a terrific basketball player but hardly a "throwback." I would say he is a very modern player.

What this discussion has gone away from is the players we had available. The calls for size are great but the available size in last nights game was all picked up from the scrapheap from China.

Putting a system in place that you have none of the pieces to make work makes zero sense. How did the roster the C's had available last night lend itself to playing that kind of game?

It is fine to take Doc to task for certain moves but with the injuries this team has had the roster is a mess (and that isn't blaming Danny). 4 out of the 5 starters on this team were out last night. No NBA team, barring The Spurs, can see any success with that. I just don't get killing Doc for the bad luck this team has had.

Re: Doc starts Coaching Celts start Losing
« Reply #47 on: March 27, 2013, 04:30:39 PM »

Offline OwnthePaint

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I think you have a really good subject line. After that I disagree. I would like to propose an alternative subject line to "Doc starts Coaching Celts start losing"

"Celtics start losing, Fan starts doubting."
"Celtics keep losing, Fan starts blaming."
"Fan starts blogging, heads start scratching."

Re: Doc starts Coaching Celts start Losing
« Reply #48 on: March 27, 2013, 05:12:56 PM »

Offline Atzar

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I think Indiana and Memphis play a very similar style as the 1980s Celtics. Seems to be working there.

Which one of Brandon Bass, Chris Wilcox, DJ White and Shavlik Randolph is going to replicate what ZBo, Marc Gasol, Roy Hibbert and David West do for a basketball team? 

That's not a system problem, that's a talent problem.  Doc doesn't play many bigs because we have no good bigs. 

Doc showed a willingness to go with a more traditional lineup when Sully and KG were both playing.  But right now, we don't have the horses for that kind of race.  He's essentially telling our five best players to go out there and win us a ballgame, but unfortunately we can't just out-talent teams anymore. 

Re: Doc starts Coaching Celts start Losing
« Reply #49 on: March 27, 2013, 06:31:31 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Coach as he may with our injuries right now the talent isn't there.  Red would not win every game with this team.