Author Topic: The deferment to KG and PP is starting to get under my skin  (Read 3030 times)

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Re: The deferment to KG and PP is starting to get under my skin
« Reply #30 on: February 25, 2013, 10:41:58 AM »

Offline vinnie

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FYI -- now 9-4 in the post "we are a better team without Rondo" era. FYI, Portland had lost 7 in a row including a 36-point shellacking at the hands of the Hornets and a loss to the horrid Suns.

9-4 beats 20-23. Just saying vinnie.

For sure. I am just providing an update.

Re: The deferment to KG and PP is starting to get under my skin
« Reply #31 on: February 25, 2013, 10:50:51 AM »

Offline kgainez

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I would like to see the team continue to run plays other than the Pierce ISO game and a strategy to take advantage of mismatches regardless of which Celtic has the good matchup but Doc just likes to call the same numbers and with Ray gone this year it is more predictable than ever.

i agree
i'm saying.
when things get bad, we know exactly who's shooting.

it's the same thing. and same when we blow a lead.
we play scared/pass to PP and KG only and get away from gets us the win which is the ball movement and stuff

Re: The deferment to KG and PP is starting to get under my skin
« Reply #32 on: February 25, 2013, 10:57:39 AM »

Offline TheReaLPuba

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We do have a lot of talent on this team but they don't play up to their capabilities.

PP and KG shouldn't have to play like HOF players anymore but the rest of the other guys needs to play ok to good.

We didn't get any "good" games from anyone outside of PP and KG.

We missed a ton of shots and stupid crazy layups. The other guys may not get the consistent minutes that they're used to getting but they have to adapt and play efficiently with whatever minutes they do get.

I don't see why fans are saying that KO and PP are the problem with this team...without those two we're a lottery team borderlining on the Bobcats record.


Re: The deferment to KG and PP is starting to get under my skin
« Reply #33 on: February 25, 2013, 11:00:10 AM »

Offline tonyto3690

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Likely one of those who complained KG and Pierce didn't get enough shots when we lose games and guys like Bass, Terry and Green shouldn't be taking their shots.

People will always complain about something when we lose.  Sometimes you just get outplayed and don't get the breaks.  A lot of our guys were missing a lot of wide open shots.  Sometimes the shots just don't fall.  I loved that after KG missed a couple jumpers he started driving to the rim.  Exactly what you want to see.

Re: The deferment to KG and PP is starting to get under my skin
« Reply #34 on: February 25, 2013, 11:00:26 AM »

Offline kgainez

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I understand that KG and PP shoot well (BB shot 50%, too, should we have given him the ball more?) -- but they unnecessarily carry the team. It seems like Doc goes into panic mode and stops trusting everyone else.

It doesn't matter how many times KG and PP brick, as soon as JET or Lee hit some bricks, they get pulled or he never goes to them again.

This unit THRIVES off team play. And I think this is my point. When we are not playing as a team, we lose. Now when PP has a 40 pt night, it's hard to lose there. But when PP is the leading scorer with 21 and the 2nd guy has 19 and the third has 15 -- that's balanced...so I don't really care about the win loss rate because I can count at least 4 or 5 times the aforementioned has happened.

KG and PP are our leading scorers and that's fine. what I'm saying is I can't stand the DEFERMENT...the 'oh ok, well we're down 6, instead of doing the things that make us win, let me just pass it Paul and let him do something' or 'let me just pass it KG in the post and hope he can knock a youngin around for a couple seconds to get a contested layup'.

When Kg and PP are hot, that's different. KG wasn't hot until the 4th. PP tried to create but the players kept giving it to him to do something.

Do you all realize I'm not arguing against KG/PP but against the other players and maybe Doc?

Re: The deferment to KG and PP is starting to get under my skin
« Reply #35 on: February 25, 2013, 11:03:09 AM »

Offline kgainez

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We do have a lot of talent on this team but they don't play up to their capabilities.

PP and KG shouldn't have to play like HOF players anymore but the rest of the other guys needs to play ok to good.

We didn't get any "good" games from anyone outside of PP and KG.

We missed a ton of shots and stupid crazy layups. The other guys may not get the consistent minutes that they're used to getting but they have to adapt and play efficiently with whatever minutes they do get.

I don't see why fans are saying that KO and PP are the problem with this team...without those two we're a lottery team borderlining on the Bobcats record.

i agree and disagree
at some point it feels like PP and KG are being force fed
and I'm not complaining and saying they are what's wrong
I'm saying how I hate how Doc/the others always hope and pray PP/KG can make a play instead of playing the type of TEAM ball that get's us going.

and also, I don't think without them we're a lottery team, but that's a whole nother argument

Re: The deferment to KG and PP is starting to get under my skin
« Reply #36 on: February 25, 2013, 11:38:03 AM »

Offline OsirusCeltics

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Yeah, lets tell Tony Parker to give up shots and pass to Bonner more
Or tell Durant to pass up shots and give to Ibaka more

Pierce and KG are the best players on this team, so the priority of the available shots go to them

Re: The deferment to KG and PP is starting to get under my skin
« Reply #37 on: February 25, 2013, 11:44:52 AM »

Offline kgainez

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Yeah, lets tell Tony Parker to give up shots and pass to Bonner more
Or tell Durant to pass up shots and give to Ibaka more

Pierce and KG are the best players on this team, so the priority of the available shots go to them

different team make up

Re: The deferment to KG and PP is starting to get under my skin
« Reply #38 on: February 25, 2013, 11:46:45 AM »

Offline BballTim

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Im not a rocket scientist by any means, but Pierce and KG are by far the top two options. For example, Pierce had 8 assists in less than 32 minutes tonight. Green didn't get one. If you are screaming at Doc for not running the offense thru Green in the fourth quarter. You may want evaluate Jeff Greens game.

Frankly, KG and PP should be top 2 options in the fourth quarter
If we play like we play in Phoenix against any and all teams, who's stopping us?

I think EVERYONE (Doc and players included) keep holding on to the past of Paul and KG. They are good now. They were GREAT then.
In addition, we have TONS OF TALENT ON THIS TEAM!! UTILIZE IT!!

  Offensively we don't have a ton of talent on the team. PP and KG are above average offensive players. Terry's close to average, Green's been average or better for the last few weeks, players like Bass, Lee and AB aren't generally good/great scorers. Doc keeps talking about how the team needs to play uptempo because without Rondo they aren't good enough to do well in a half court game. He isn't kidding.

Re: The deferment to KG and PP is starting to get under my skin
« Reply #39 on: February 25, 2013, 11:54:16 AM »

Offline kgainez

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Im not a rocket scientist by any means, but Pierce and KG are by far the top two options. For example, Pierce had 8 assists in less than 32 minutes tonight. Green didn't get one. If you are screaming at Doc for not running the offense thru Green in the fourth quarter. You may want evaluate Jeff Greens game.

Frankly, KG and PP should be top 2 options in the fourth quarter
If we play like we play in Phoenix against any and all teams, who's stopping us?

I think EVERYONE (Doc and players included) keep holding on to the past of Paul and KG. They are good now. They were GREAT then.
In addition, we have TONS OF TALENT ON THIS TEAM!! UTILIZE IT!!

  Offensively we don't have a ton of talent on the team. PP and KG are above average offensive players. Terry's close to average, Green's been average or better for the last few weeks, players like Bass, Lee and AB aren't generally good/great scorers. Doc keeps talking about how the team needs to play uptempo because without Rondo they aren't good enough to do well in a half court game. He isn't kidding.

this is half of my point
this team is athletic now, so we need to move the ball.
when they get it to PP it's always some sort of halfcourt set with maybe 2 or 3 passes max. never the extra pass and I've seen times when we pass behind.

and with or without Rondo, we should be playing as such.

Re: The deferment to KG and PP is starting to get under my skin
« Reply #40 on: February 25, 2013, 11:56:07 AM »

Offline FreeGreen

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When the shot clock is running down, or when the game is tight and defenses tighten up it makes sense to let the plays run through PP and KG.  I don't think the PP ISO is a great offense, but that's not what we were running.  We were running an offense with PP initiating.  That's all.

Look at the other night in Denver ... it was a 2 point game, PP ran the pick and roll up top, beat his guy, drew the help and dished to Bradley who missed a wide open 16 footer.

The end result was we lost, but the play worked.  That's exactly the type of shot you want in that situation.

Look at the offense down the stretch tonight. Starting from when we were down 8:

1.  Pierce PnR pass to Bass for 2 points
2.  KG dunk off PP pass
3.  KG fouled, hits 2 FTs
4.  PP basket off KG pass
5.  Bass scores off KG pass
6.  KG misses off PP pass
7.  KG layup off PP pass
8.  PP misses 3

That's a pretty effective offense down the stretch.  Unfortunately our DEFENSE was porous.   

The Lilliard layup + foul was absolutely TERRIBLE defense in that situation.  Bradley is a phenomenal defender, but you cannot allow the blow by in that situation and then Bass halfheartedly rotated over and gently hacks him.  It was pathetic.

Re: The deferment to KG and PP is starting to get under my skin
« Reply #41 on: February 25, 2013, 11:57:44 AM »

Offline kgainez

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When the shot clock is running down, or when the game is tight and defenses tighten up it makes sense to let the plays run through PP and KG.  I don't think the PP ISO is a great offense, but that's not what we were running.  We were running an offense with PP initiating.  That's all.

Look at the other night in Denver ... it was a 2 point game, PP ran the pick and roll up top, beat his guy, drew the help and dished to Bradley who missed a wide open 16 footer.

The end result was we lost, but the play worked.  That's exactly the type of shot you want in that situation.

Look at the offense down the stretch tonight. Starting from when we were down 8:

1.  Pierce PnR pass to Bass for 2 points
2.  KG dunk off PP pass
3.  KG fouled, hits 2 FTs
4.  PP basket off KG pass
5.  Bass scores off KG pass
6.  KG misses off PP pass
7.  KG layup off PP pass
8.  PP misses 3

That's a pretty effective offense down the stretch.  Unfortunately our DEFENSE was porous.   

The Lilliard layup + foul was absolutely TERRIBLE defense in that situation.  Bradley is a phenomenal defender, but you cannot allow the blow by in that situation and then Bass halfheartedly rotated over and gently hacks him.  It was pathetic.

and i've already said i don't mind it down the stretch/in the 4th quarter.

 

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