Author Topic: PP trade bait around the draft ? can't see him coming back next year for 15mil  (Read 5056 times)

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Offline Kane3387

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On a per-minute basis, Pierce is averaging 24% more points than Green, 37% more rebounds, three times more assists, and 56% more steals.  That's with Pierce playing with a pinched nerve.

I think the "Green is better" argument is pretty premature.

Green is not greater then Pierce. It's not even close when you consider leadership and playmaking ability. I like what Green has been doing and his future still seems brighter then his present. However he has shown almost no ability to create for others and make them better. Pierce is still an elite SF and one of the best point forwards in the game.

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Offline Celtics18

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On a per-minute basis, Pierce is averaging 24% more points than Green, 37% more rebounds, three times more assists, and 56% more steals.  That's with Pierce playing with a pinched nerve.

I think the "Green is better" argument is pretty premature.

Green is not greater then Pierce. It's not even close when you consider leadership and playmaking ability. I like what Green has been doing and his future still seems brighter then his present. However he has shown almost no ability to create for others and make them better. Pierce is still an elite SF and one of the best point forwards in the game.

Yeah, I love Jeff Green and am starting to get excited about a future with him at small forward, but, nah, he's not on Paul Pierce's level. 
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Offline Smitty77

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Roy,

To be fair and objective, can you please run those numbers for January and February and get back with us with those??  I think we might be looking at a totally different set of statistics.  I look forward to seeing those shortly.

And I do realize that two months is not a large sample, but Green seems to be getting better and better and PP worse and worse over the last two months.

Thanks for running those Roy.

Smitty77

Offline kozlodoev

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On a per-minute basis, Pierce is averaging 24% more points than Green, 37% more rebounds, three times more assists, and 56% more steals.  That's with Pierce playing with a pinched nerve.

I think the "Green is better" argument is pretty premature.
And that's Green, who spent the first month of the season getting back into game shape after heart surgery. You can spin this either way.
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Offline Celtics18

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Roy,

To be fair and objective, can you please run those numbers for January and February and get back with us with those??  I think we might be looking at a totally different set of statistics.  I look forward to seeing those shortly.

And I do realize that two months is not a large sample, but Green seems to be getting better and better and PP worse and worse over the last two months.

Thanks for running those Roy.

Smitty77

Pierce isn't getting worse.  If I had a nickel for every time I've read that claim over the course of the past four years, well, I'd have a heck of a lot of nickels.

He's still an elite player, and he'll continue to have his ups and downs throughout the rest of the season, I'm sure.  During the downs, everyone will post their theories about him being washed up, and during the ups, people will go;  "wow, totally forgot the Truth could still do that." 
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Offline LooseCannon

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Should a trade be on the table as an option?  Yes, and I am sure it is.  Should Ainge shop Pierce around and take the best offer he gets?  No.  I'd probably say no to a hypothetical offer of the expiring contracts of a solid backup PF who isn't good enough to take the starting job from Bass and an overpaid aging point guard plus a first round draft pick likely to be in the 25-30 range.
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Offline hwangjini_1

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Roy,

To be fair and objective, can you please run those numbers for January and February and get back with us with those??  I think we might be looking at a totally different set of statistics.  I look forward to seeing those shortly.

And I do realize that two months is not a large sample, but Green seems to be getting better and better and PP worse and worse over the last two months.

Thanks for running those Roy.

Smitty77

Pierce isn't getting worse.  If I had a nickel for every time I've read that claim over the course of the past four years, well, I'd have a heck of a lot of nickels.

He's still an elite player, and he'll continue to have his ups and downs throughout the rest of the season, I'm sure.  During the downs, everyone will post their theories about him being washed up, and during the ups, people will go;  "wow, totally forgot the Truth could still do that."

pierce is still elite, but not as elite as he once was...or at least not elite on a consistent basis anymore. kozlo points out that pierce's shot is flat, he doesnt drive to the basket with the same authority and force he once did, and his defense is not consistently superior.

i see a pierce who has quarters, sometimes games, of elite performance. he still is a killer with timely 3 pointers.

but i also see him struggling some nights, more nights than used to be the case. some nights he looks just plain old.

pierce this season, i believe, is still good enough to help lift the celtics to victory against most nba teams in a short play off series. it is not a guarantee, but i wouldnt be surprised if he carried the team in a number of games in the playoffs.

but, he is aging and just watch his flat shot and his lack of lift when he jumps. it shows and eventually the "crafty veteran" stuff wont be enough to make up for deteriorating physical skills.

next year i would guess that barring injuries, pierce will still be one of the better sf in the nba. not elite, but very good with an occasional great outing.

in two years? geez....if he can play at even above average levels i would be very very pleased.

i state the obvious, i am good that.  :) pierce is still good, but let's enjoy it while we can.
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Offline celticsleyte

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If the right situation comes up he could be traded.  I do not think the team does it to clear cap space per se unless KG retires.

I think the fight PP and KG have put up against father time is commendable but the slippage is visible.  Knowing the best play to make via experience is quite valuable but as your athleticism slips there are less plays that you can make.  I love watching these guys play but it is near the end of all star level play.

Offline Celtics18

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Roy,

To be fair and objective, can you please run those numbers for January and February and get back with us with those??  I think we might be looking at a totally different set of statistics.  I look forward to seeing those shortly.

And I do realize that two months is not a large sample, but Green seems to be getting better and better and PP worse and worse over the last two months.

Thanks for running those Roy.

Smitty77

Feel free to double check, as I did this in kind of a rush:

January and February:

Paul Pierce per 36:  17.2 points, 6.9 rebounds, 5.4 assists.

Jeff Green per 36: 16.4 points, 5.1 rebounds, 1.9 assists.
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Offline Smitty77

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I will do it myself.

PP vs. JG for January and February!!!

FG%:  PP= 39.19% ///JG= 51.94%
3pt%: PP= 34.38% /// JG = 41.51%
PPG: PP= 16.24pts.//  JG= 12.28pts.
FT%: PP=74.38% /// JG 84.52%
Rebs: PP= 7.4 /// JG 3.68
Assists: PP= 5.12 /// JG 1.4
Blocks: PP=.32 /// JG 1.12
Steals:  PP=.96 ///JG .48

I will let someone else do the percentages or comparisons, but clearly Jeff has been FAR MORE efficient on offense and by the eyesight test, a better defender in Jan. and Feb. combined, but clearly in February.

Green clearly needs to rebound better and pass more.  I would like to see him average about 1.5 steals per game as well.

Smitty77

Offline Celtics18

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I will do it myself.

PP vs. JG for January and February!!!

FG%:  PP= 39.19% ///JG= 51.94%
3pt%: PP= 34.38% /// JG = 41.51%
PPG: PP= 16.24pts.//  JG= 12.28pts.
FT%: PP=74.38% /// JG 84.52%
Rebs: PP= 7.4 /// JG 3.68
Assists: PP= 5.12 /// JG 1.4
Blocks: PP=.32 /// JG 1.12
Steals:  PP=.96 ///JG .48

I will let someone else do the percentages or comparisons, but clearly Jeff has been FAR MORE efficient on offense and by the eyesight test, a better defender in Jan. and Feb. combined, but clearly in February.

Green clearly needs to rebound better and pass more.  I would like to see him average about 1.5 steals per game as well.

Smitty77

See above.  I did the per 36 for you in points, rebounds, and assists.
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Offline Cman

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All of the Celtics are trade bait in the days leading up to the draft. No secret there. PP and KG in particular, with Rondo not far behind. If Danny sees a good trade, he'll take it (as he should). 
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Offline TripleOT

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Roy,

To be fair and objective, can you please run those numbers for January and February and get back with us with those??  I think we might be looking at a totally different set of statistics.  I look forward to seeing those shortly.

And I do realize that two months is not a large sample, but Green seems to be getting better and better and PP worse and worse over the last two months.

Thanks for running those Roy.

Smitty77

I don't think you need Roy to do that.  Go to any stat site and click on "splits".

Anyways, Pierce is still outscoring Green the past two months, and dominating him in every other category besides blocks.  Green is scoring more efficiently, however. 

Pierce is still Top 5 at his position. Unless the Cs get a solid offer this summer, I can see ownership paying Pierce his money next year. Ownership places a value on PP's legacy, which they should.     

Offline ssspence

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On a per-minute basis, Pierce is averaging 24% more points than Green, 37% more rebounds, three times more assists, and 56% more steals.  That's with Pierce playing with a pinched nerve.

I think the "Green is better" argument is pretty premature.
And that's Green, who spent the first month of the season getting back into game shape after heart surgery. You can spin this either way.

How can you spin those numbers Green's way, without reaching for the 'poor baby doesn't get enough run' argument?

Having absolutely nothing to do with Green, i think the chances Pierce is playing for the Cs next year on his current contract is about 10%. I suspect when the season's over, they'll let him know they can't keep him at $16mil, try to trade him to a 'contender' -- to LAL for Gasol, for example, makes sense for both teams...thought I'm not sure the Lakers wouldn't then just cut him -- and if they can't, they'll release him from his deal.


Offline kozlodoev

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On a per-minute basis, Pierce is averaging 24% more points than Green, 37% more rebounds, three times more assists, and 56% more steals.  That's with Pierce playing with a pinched nerve.

I think the "Green is better" argument is pretty premature.
And that's Green, who spent the first month of the season getting back into game shape after heart surgery. You can spin this either way.

How can you spin those numbers Green's way, without reaching for the 'poor baby doesn't get enough run' argument?

Having absolutely nothing to do with Green, i think the chances Pierce is playing for the Cs next year on his current contract is about 10%. I suspect when the season's over, they'll let him know they can't keep him at $16mil, try to trade him to a 'contender' -- to LAL for Gasol, for example, makes sense for both teams...thought I'm not sure the Lakers wouldn't then just cut him -- and if they can't, they'll release him from his deal.
For a player not too long removed from a heart surgery, he was getting plenty much burn early in the season.

Of course, our insistence to go to Pierce is understandable -- how can you pass on this .420 FG%.
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