Author Topic: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?  (Read 7087 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline More Banners

  • Ray Allen
  • **
  • Posts: 2460
  • Tommy Points: 134
Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
« Reply #105 on: February 25, 2013, 08:52:22 PM »
I try to get a center since a good center is hard to come by and we need one, now and in the future since...we have 3 guards locked up with AB, Lee, and JET, and 3 forwards locked up in Green, Bass, and Sully, plus Pierce and KG for win-now.

Older Gasol with pick, younger Gasol straight up (binkie alert!).

Gortat plus Dragic or Gortat plus 1st.

I think such a thing leaves us still pretty well set up, no worse off than having Rondo, but just structured differently.  I'm biased toward bigs, so no surprise...

Things like that.

Offline BballTim

  • Robert Parish
  • *********************
  • Posts: 21180
  • Tommy Points: 945
Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
« Reply #106 on: February 25, 2013, 10:49:14 PM »
It's also completely untrue that he requires a really specific style of team and type of teammates in order for him to be successful".

While I don't think Rondo needs a specific style, I do think he does better in detail-oriented systems.  I actually don't think he would be that happy in a running offense unless the offense flows from a complex defense (one more principled than "stay in front of your man") that aggressively seeks to cause turnovers to initiate the transition game.

  Not sure exactly what you mean by a detail-oriented system, or why you'd think his happiness in a running offense is dependent on what type of defense his team plays.

By detail-oriented, I mean a system with a playbook that requires players to know their roles and execute well, the opposite of a system with a lot of free-lancing and unstructured individual creativity.  I think Rondo has the sort of mind that would find a Mike D'Antoni style transition offense to be abhorrent, even if he had a jump shot that made him seem like a better fit.  A team that runs more than average because its defense forces turnovers would fit Rondo better.  I sometimes think he gambles for steals because he thinks that is the best way to initiate points in transition.

  I think this is the first time I've ever heard the claim that a player wants to play in a running offense but only if the transition plays are based on turnovers and not from rebounds or quick inbounding after made baskets. What is it about Rondo's play have you seen that would make you think he wants to run after turnovers but not after defensive rebounds?

Offline BudweiserCeltic

  • Ed Macauley
  • ***********
  • Posts: 11281
  • Tommy Points: 1085
Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
« Reply #107 on: February 26, 2013, 12:06:54 AM »
So, any takers on Big Al yet to play with KG? Rondo is not my first choice to make it happen, but if needed be, come on, that would be a cool duo.

Online chambers

  • Bailey Howell
  • ***
  • Posts: 3081
  • Tommy Points: 331
  • Banner 18...all that matters.
Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
« Reply #108 on: February 26, 2013, 05:56:15 AM »
You guys are insane.  Sacramento won't even trade Cousins for Rondo let alone adding a lottery pick.  The thread wants realistic trades, not total nonsense that just won't happen.  It's fine if you don't want to trade Rondo, but having a starting point that is so far from reality takes realism totally out of the equation.

I find your consensus hilarious.
You think the Kings wouldn't trade Cousins for Rondo?
A young psycho/mentally ill big with all star potential and a top 12 pick in the first round for a bonafide All Star point guard that sells the 3rd most jerseys in the NBA and leads the NBA in assists and triple doubles?

You're not being realistic on what he's worth at all.
In fact you're almost trolling.
Go to Real GM in the NBA forum and make a topic. "what is Rondo worth in a trade?" and see what the average non-homer non-celtic fan says. It starts with someone like Cousins and gets better.
Lawl Teague and Williams? L A W L
http://www.youtube.com/watch?b=1&v=UWlJiz1X8q0

"Game 4: 4 minutes 28 seconds 87-81
Game 5:2 minutes 28 seconds 84-81
These are scores in the 4th period and time left in Games 4 and 5 in 2011 versus the Heat. The Celtics were ahead in both games and Rondo was hurt, playing with one arm."  -Pearl 131  So close, yet so far.

Offline BudweiserCeltic

  • Ed Macauley
  • ***********
  • Posts: 11281
  • Tommy Points: 1085
Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
« Reply #109 on: February 26, 2013, 08:04:37 AM »
You guys are insane.  Sacramento won't even trade Cousins for Rondo let alone adding a lottery pick.  The thread wants realistic trades, not total nonsense that just won't happen.  It's fine if you don't want to trade Rondo, but having a starting point that is so far from reality takes realism totally out of the equation.

I find your consensus hilarious.
You think the Kings wouldn't trade Cousins for Rondo?
A young psycho/mentally ill big with all star potential and a top 12 pick in the first round for a bonafide All Star point guard that sells the 3rd most jerseys in the NBA and leads the NBA in assists and triple doubles?

You're not being realistic on what he's worth at all.
In fact you're almost trolling.
Go to Real GM in the NBA forum and make a topic. "what is Rondo worth in a trade?" and see what the average non-homer non-celtic fan says. It starts with someone like Cousins and gets better.
Lawl Teague and Williams? L A W L

I'm pretty sure Sacramento would be interested in Rondo for Cousins personally, but I don't think Rondo's trade value is as high as some of us speculate we want it to be, despite how some of us rank Rondo among the best players in the league.

Offline Moranis

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8930
  • Tommy Points: 399
Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
« Reply #110 on: February 26, 2013, 08:59:01 AM »
I think something like Jeff Teague (sign and trade) and Lou Williams for Rondo and Bass would make sense for both teams (assuming Josh Smith and Atlanta worked something out).

That would make no sense for us.  Why would we do that?  We get worse at PG and pick up a small SG (6"1) that we don't need that is also coming off knee wurgery.
Because his idea of good value for Rajon Rondo is getting bad as fast as possible so we can get back into the lottery.
I actually like Jeff Teague a lot.  14.5/7.1 this year at 24 while shooting 38% from 3, 88% from the line.  His offense would open up the floor for everyone else and he has gotten better every single year and will only get better.  Williams is an excellent scorer with a great contract. 

That is good value for Rondo, no matter what you guys think.

Very similar trade to the one I wanted to do last year i.e. Rondo for Conley and Mayo.  Everyone said the same thing about Conley that they are saying about Teague and Conley then took another jump.  Teague will take that jump.

  Mayo and Conley aren't worth Rondo.

Not that it really matters at this point, but this is a classic homer view of Rondo. Getting two solid young starters for Rondo is as good as the Cs will ever do.

They will never get one 'equal' player in return, because despite his flash and gaudy stats, Rondo can't score consistently or shoot FTs in the 4th Q.


  I'd say it's the classic realistic view of Rondo. It's true Rondo's not much of a free throw shooter, it's equally true that when he's healthy he's one of the best playoff performers in the league. Those "gaudy stats" have a much bigger impact on games than you think.
Rondo has some great playoff games no doubt, but he also some atrociously bad games.  No one ever talks about the bad games, you know when Rondo goes 4 of 12 without taking a single foul shot in a 1 point loss to the Sixers.  Or how about the 6 of 17, again without taking a single foul shot in a 1 point loss to the Hawks.  Or how about the 4 of 14 in the 7 point loss to the Sixers.  Or the 3 of 15 game against the Heat (which Boston won).  Those are just from last year.  And sure he had the monster 44 point game (in the game 2 loss) and lots of other quality games.  The problem with Rondo though is that consistency.  Even when he turns it up a notch in the playoffs, he still has the down right awful games that cost Boston playoff victories as much as gets them wins in the monster games. 

A lesser talented, but more consistent player as well as some other value is a good trade for Rondo.  A player that even if the shot isn't going can still get to the line and hit the foul shots, would be valuable.  When Rondo is on he is on, but he is also off a lot more than most on this board want to acknowledge and when he is off, he is way off and has nothing to fall back on.
2014 Pick 2 Draft 18th pick of 20
Sacramento Kings
Starters - Isaiah Thomas, Eric Gordon, Jimmy Butler, Dirk Nowitzki, Demarcus Cousins
Bench - Kendall Marshall, Michael Carter-Williams, Vince Carter, Wesley Johnson, Marcus Morris, Miles Plumlee, Nerlens Noel

Online Celtics18

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7568
  • Tommy Points: 785
Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
« Reply #111 on: February 26, 2013, 09:24:34 AM »
I think something like Jeff Teague (sign and trade) and Lou Williams for Rondo and Bass would make sense for both teams (assuming Josh Smith and Atlanta worked something out).

That would make no sense for us.  Why would we do that?  We get worse at PG and pick up a small SG (6"1) that we don't need that is also coming off knee wurgery.
Because his idea of good value for Rajon Rondo is getting bad as fast as possible so we can get back into the lottery.
I actually like Jeff Teague a lot.  14.5/7.1 this year at 24 while shooting 38% from 3, 88% from the line.  His offense would open up the floor for everyone else and he has gotten better every single year and will only get better.  Williams is an excellent scorer with a great contract. 

That is good value for Rondo, no matter what you guys think.

Very similar trade to the one I wanted to do last year i.e. Rondo for Conley and Mayo.  Everyone said the same thing about Conley that they are saying about Teague and Conley then took another jump.  Teague will take that jump.

  Mayo and Conley aren't worth Rondo.

Not that it really matters at this point, but this is a classic homer view of Rondo. Getting two solid young starters for Rondo is as good as the Cs will ever do.

They will never get one 'equal' player in return, because despite his flash and gaudy stats, Rondo can't score consistently or shoot FTs in the 4th Q.


  I'd say it's the classic realistic view of Rondo. It's true Rondo's not much of a free throw shooter, it's equally true that when he's healthy he's one of the best playoff performers in the league. Those "gaudy stats" have a much bigger impact on games than you think.
Rondo has some great playoff games no doubt, but he also some atrociously bad games.  No one ever talks about the bad games, you know when Rondo goes 4 of 12 without taking a single foul shot in a 1 point loss to the Sixers.  Or how about the 6 of 17, again without taking a single foul shot in a 1 point loss to the Hawks.  Or how about the 4 of 14 in the 7 point loss to the Sixers.  Or the 3 of 15 game against the Heat (which Boston won).  Those are just from last year.  And sure he had the monster 44 point game (in the game 2 loss) and lots of other quality games.  The problem with Rondo though is that consistency.  Even when he turns it up a notch in the playoffs, he still has the down right awful games that cost Boston playoff victories as much as gets them wins in the monster games. 

A lesser talented, but more consistent player as well as some other value is a good trade for Rondo.  A player that even if the shot isn't going can still get to the line and hit the foul shots, would be valuable.  When Rondo is on he is on, but he is also off a lot more than most on this board want to acknowledge and when he is off, he is way off and has nothing to fall back on.

You'd prefer the more consistent Jeff Teague?  Jeff Teague who shot 33% or worse in three of the six playoff games his Hawks played in their series loss to the Celtics last year. 

Sure, like Jeff Teague, and everyone else in the league, Rondo has some bad games (do I need to remind you of how Lebron James played in the last three games of the 2010 series against the Celtics?),  but Jeff Teague doesn't have the ability, like Rondo, to take over games and have transcendent performances.  That's why Rondo is much, much better than a nice player like Jeff Teague. 

You can call Jeff Teague "consistent" because when he's bad, he's not much worse than what anybody expects out of his talent level, but you are absolutely kidding yourself if you think he has anywhere near the value to his team as somebody with the talent level of Rajon Rondo. 
Philadelphia Seventy-Sixers  DKC General Manager

Kendall Marshall/Dennis Schroeder/Marquis Teague/Ray McCallum
Evan Turner/Roger Mason Jr./Jason Richardson(injured)
Thaddeus Young/Victor Claver/Otto Porter
Spencer Hawes/Darrell Arthur/Erik Murphy
Timofey Mozgov/Lavoy Allen

Offline ssspence

  • Jim Loscutoff
  • ****
  • Posts: 4533
  • Tommy Points: 261
  • James Naismith to Dickey Betts for the jam.....
Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
« Reply #112 on: February 26, 2013, 09:49:08 AM »
I would not trade Rondo and Bass for Teague and Williams (and change).

I would have traded Rondo and Bass before the deadline for Teague, Horford and one other asset (i.e. Korver, a pick, etc). Would have greatly increased the Cs chances to compete for a title this season, and it'll likely be a while before they're position to compete for one again.

I'd also think the Hawks would have been interested in such a deal if there was a desirable domino effect for them... Rondo convinces Smith to stay, Smith and Rondo convince Howard to sign this summer, and so on... so I'd venture to guess that the Hawks decided they have no interest at all in re-signing Smith, and therefore don't see the point in trading for Rondo.


Offline ssspence

  • Jim Loscutoff
  • ****
  • Posts: 4533
  • Tommy Points: 261
  • James Naismith to Dickey Betts for the jam.....
Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
« Reply #113 on: February 26, 2013, 09:55:12 AM »
So, any takers on Big Al yet to play with KG? Rondo is not my first choice to make it happen, but if needed be, come on, that would be a cool duo.

I want to like this idea.... but Al is still such a poor defender. It's a little offensive. I feel like it would make me crazy to watch.

Offline BballTim

  • Robert Parish
  • *********************
  • Posts: 21180
  • Tommy Points: 945
Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
« Reply #114 on: February 26, 2013, 10:06:40 AM »
I think something like Jeff Teague (sign and trade) and Lou Williams for Rondo and Bass would make sense for both teams (assuming Josh Smith and Atlanta worked something out).

That would make no sense for us.  Why would we do that?  We get worse at PG and pick up a small SG (6"1) that we don't need that is also coming off knee wurgery.
Because his idea of good value for Rajon Rondo is getting bad as fast as possible so we can get back into the lottery.
I actually like Jeff Teague a lot.  14.5/7.1 this year at 24 while shooting 38% from 3, 88% from the line.  His offense would open up the floor for everyone else and he has gotten better every single year and will only get better.  Williams is an excellent scorer with a great contract. 

That is good value for Rondo, no matter what you guys think.

Very similar trade to the one I wanted to do last year i.e. Rondo for Conley and Mayo.  Everyone said the same thing about Conley that they are saying about Teague and Conley then took another jump.  Teague will take that jump.

  Mayo and Conley aren't worth Rondo.

Not that it really matters at this point, but this is a classic homer view of Rondo. Getting two solid young starters for Rondo is as good as the Cs will ever do.

They will never get one 'equal' player in return, because despite his flash and gaudy stats, Rondo can't score consistently or shoot FTs in the 4th Q.


  I'd say it's the classic realistic view of Rondo. It's true Rondo's not much of a free throw shooter, it's equally true that when he's healthy he's one of the best playoff performers in the league. Those "gaudy stats" have a much bigger impact on games than you think.
Rondo has some great playoff games no doubt, but he also some atrociously bad games.  No one ever talks about the bad games, you know when Rondo goes 4 of 12 without taking a single foul shot in a 1 point loss to the Sixers.  Or how about the 6 of 17, again without taking a single foul shot in a 1 point loss to the Hawks.  Or how about the 4 of 14 in the 7 point loss to the Sixers.  Or the 3 of 15 game against the Heat (which Boston won).  Those are just from last year.  And sure he had the monster 44 point game (in the game 2 loss) and lots of other quality games.  The problem with Rondo though is that consistency.  Even when he turns it up a notch in the playoffs, he still has the down right awful games that cost Boston playoff victories as much as gets them wins in the monster games. 

  It's fairly unsurprising that you have a low opinion of what Rondo's worth when your opinion of when he has a good or bad game is solely related to how well he shoots or scores. He wasn't atrociously bad in all of those games, including the game where we beat the Heat when he was 3-15. He also had 4 steals, 6 boards and 13 assists and played tough defense. He played all but 3.5 minutes of that game, the Celts got outscored by 7 in those 3.5 minutes.

A lesser talented, but more consistent player as well as some other value is a good trade for Rondo.  A player that even if the shot isn't going can still get to the line and hit the foul shots, would be valuable.  When Rondo is on he is on, but he is also off a lot more than most on this board want to acknowledge and when he is off, he is way off and has nothing to fall back on.

  First of all a lesser talented but more consistent player brings you nothing of value. Teague's a nice player to have that makes a good steady contribution, you just need to surround him with some stars who's play will be good enough to carry the team. Rondo's a "carry the team" type. And "when he is off, he is way off and has nothing to fall back on" is complete nonsense. Rondo has more to fall back on when his shot isn't falling than about 99% of the league. His passing, his rebounding, his defense, the way he controls the pace of the game and runs an offense. Rondo (more than almost anyone in the league) can dominate a game without scoring and he's been doing it for years.

Offline BballTim

  • Robert Parish
  • *********************
  • Posts: 21180
  • Tommy Points: 945
Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
« Reply #115 on: February 26, 2013, 10:08:50 AM »
I would not trade Rondo and Bass for Teague and Williams (and change).

I would have traded Rondo and Bass before the deadline for Teague, Horford and one other asset (i.e. Korver, a pick, etc). Would have greatly increased the Cs chances to compete for a title this season, and it'll likely be a while before they're position to compete for one again.

  If Rondo and Sully come back healthy they'll be competing for one next year.

Offline BudweiserCeltic

  • Ed Macauley
  • ***********
  • Posts: 11281
  • Tommy Points: 1085
Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
« Reply #116 on: February 26, 2013, 10:11:07 AM »
So, any takers on Big Al yet to play with KG? Rondo is not my first choice to make it happen, but if needed be, come on, that would be a cool duo.

I want to like this idea.... but Al is still such a poor defender. It's a little offensive. I feel like it would make me crazy to watch.

Yet we make due with Bass and Wilcox, who in general are not good defenders either, and way worse offensively, and way worse rebounders. Big Al is one of the most proficient low post scorers, someone that with our team you can't afford to double team with us. And he's bigger, which means he can play with Sully too.

KG-Jefferson-Sully would make a great 3 big rotation.

Offline ssspence

  • Jim Loscutoff
  • ****
  • Posts: 4533
  • Tommy Points: 261
  • James Naismith to Dickey Betts for the jam.....
Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
« Reply #117 on: February 26, 2013, 10:20:17 AM »
So, any takers on Big Al yet to play with KG? Rondo is not my first choice to make it happen, but if needed be, come on, that would be a cool duo.

I want to like this idea.... but Al is still such a poor defender. It's a little offensive. I feel like it would make me crazy to watch.

Yet we make due with Bass and Wilcox, who in general are not good defenders either, and way worse offensively, and way worse rebounders. Big Al is one of the most proficient low post scorers, someone that with our team you can't afford to double team with us. And he's bigger, which means he can play with Sully too.

KG-Jefferson-Sully would make a great 3 big rotation.

I hear you -- I get Al's game. Nice fit with KG on the offensive end. Excellent rebounder. Good guy. Worst team defender I can think of, and has really never improved.

By the way, we don't get by with Bass and Wilcox, unless you mean as a middle of the pack team hoping LeBron James tears a hamstring. Al would be a marked improvement on a lot of fronts, but I think his defensive deficiencies would be poisonous to any legitimate championship hopes. 


Offline ssspence

  • Jim Loscutoff
  • ****
  • Posts: 4533
  • Tommy Points: 261
  • James Naismith to Dickey Betts for the jam.....
Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
« Reply #118 on: February 26, 2013, 10:21:55 AM »
I would not trade Rondo and Bass for Teague and Williams (and change).

I would have traded Rondo and Bass before the deadline for Teague, Horford and one other asset (i.e. Korver, a pick, etc). Would have greatly increased the Cs chances to compete for a title this season, and it'll likely be a while before they're position to compete for one again.

  If Rondo and Sully come back healthy they'll be competing for one next year.

I admire your optimism, but don't agree. 

Offline Moranis

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8930
  • Tommy Points: 399
Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
« Reply #119 on: February 26, 2013, 10:59:54 AM »
I think something like Jeff Teague (sign and trade) and Lou Williams for Rondo and Bass would make sense for both teams (assuming Josh Smith and Atlanta worked something out).

That would make no sense for us.  Why would we do that?  We get worse at PG and pick up a small SG (6"1) that we don't need that is also coming off knee wurgery.
Because his idea of good value for Rajon Rondo is getting bad as fast as possible so we can get back into the lottery.
I actually like Jeff Teague a lot.  14.5/7.1 this year at 24 while shooting 38% from 3, 88% from the line.  His offense would open up the floor for everyone else and he has gotten better every single year and will only get better.  Williams is an excellent scorer with a great contract. 

That is good value for Rondo, no matter what you guys think.

Very similar trade to the one I wanted to do last year i.e. Rondo for Conley and Mayo.  Everyone said the same thing about Conley that they are saying about Teague and Conley then took another jump.  Teague will take that jump.

  Mayo and Conley aren't worth Rondo.

Not that it really matters at this point, but this is a classic homer view of Rondo. Getting two solid young starters for Rondo is as good as the Cs will ever do.

They will never get one 'equal' player in return, because despite his flash and gaudy stats, Rondo can't score consistently or shoot FTs in the 4th Q.


  I'd say it's the classic realistic view of Rondo. It's true Rondo's not much of a free throw shooter, it's equally true that when he's healthy he's one of the best playoff performers in the league. Those "gaudy stats" have a much bigger impact on games than you think.
Rondo has some great playoff games no doubt, but he also some atrociously bad games.  No one ever talks about the bad games, you know when Rondo goes 4 of 12 without taking a single foul shot in a 1 point loss to the Sixers.  Or how about the 6 of 17, again without taking a single foul shot in a 1 point loss to the Hawks.  Or how about the 4 of 14 in the 7 point loss to the Sixers.  Or the 3 of 15 game against the Heat (which Boston won).  Those are just from last year.  And sure he had the monster 44 point game (in the game 2 loss) and lots of other quality games.  The problem with Rondo though is that consistency.  Even when he turns it up a notch in the playoffs, he still has the down right awful games that cost Boston playoff victories as much as gets them wins in the monster games. 

A lesser talented, but more consistent player as well as some other value is a good trade for Rondo.  A player that even if the shot isn't going can still get to the line and hit the foul shots, would be valuable.  When Rondo is on he is on, but he is also off a lot more than most on this board want to acknowledge and when he is off, he is way off and has nothing to fall back on.

You'd prefer the more consistent Jeff Teague?  Jeff Teague who shot 33% or worse in three of the six playoff games his Hawks played in their series loss to the Celtics last year. 

Sure, like Jeff Teague, and everyone else in the league, Rondo has some bad games (do I need to remind you of how Lebron James played in the last three games of the 2010 series against the Celtics?),  but Jeff Teague doesn't have the ability, like Rondo, to take over games and have transcendent performances.  That's why Rondo is much, much better than a nice player like Jeff Teague. 

You can call Jeff Teague "consistent" because when he's bad, he's not much worse than what anybody expects out of his talent level, but you are absolutely kidding yourself if you think he has anywhere near the value to his team as somebody with the talent level of Rajon Rondo.
Teague was in his third year.  Need I remind you what Rondo looked like in the playoffs in his third year.  Teague has significantly improved this year.  I would expect a jump from him this year and yet another leap next year (look at his progressions).
2014 Pick 2 Draft 18th pick of 20
Sacramento Kings
Starters - Isaiah Thomas, Eric Gordon, Jimmy Butler, Dirk Nowitzki, Demarcus Cousins
Bench - Kendall Marshall, Michael Carter-Williams, Vince Carter, Wesley Johnson, Marcus Morris, Miles Plumlee, Nerlens Noel

 

Hello! Guest

Welcome to the CelticsBlog Forums.

Welcome to CelticsBlog