Author Topic: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?  (Read 7533 times)

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Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
« Reply #90 on: February 25, 2013, 04:11:58 PM »

Offline ssspence

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Not that it really matters at this point, but this is a classic homer view of Rondo. Getting two solid young starters for Rondo is as good as the Cs will ever do.

"As good as the C's will ever do" is probably not enough of a return to justify trading Rondo for pure basketball reasons.  You'd probably need something like salary cap or locker room reasons to justify trading Rondo for the best you are likely to get back for him.

I think you're right. I don't think the Cs are likely to ever get 'equal value' from a basketball perspective for him -- especially if they wait until next summer or after to trade him.


Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
« Reply #91 on: February 25, 2013, 04:18:35 PM »

Offline ssspence

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  We also know that he's the kind of player that the Lakers would discuss trading Dwight Howard for, clearly his value has shot up since then.

You say I can't speculate above, but then you speculate here. Which is it?

Far more importantly, do you actually buy for a moment that the Lakers thought about trading Howard for Rondo? In all likelihood, that was a Boston-floated rumor.

C'mon now...

Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
« Reply #92 on: February 25, 2013, 04:25:20 PM »

Offline BballTim

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  We also know that he's the kind of player that the Lakers would discuss trading Dwight Howard for, clearly his value has shot up since then.

You say I can't speculate above, but then you speculate here. Which is it?

Far more importantly, do you actually buy for a moment that the Lakers thought about trading Howard for Rondo? That was clearly a Boston-floated rumor.

C'mon now...

  Sorry, I was being facetious. The vast majority of what people "know" on this blog are things that they're guessing about. Like whether that rumor was Boston-floated.

Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
« Reply #93 on: February 25, 2013, 04:39:52 PM »

Offline ssspence

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  We also know that he's the kind of player that the Lakers would discuss trading Dwight Howard for, clearly his value has shot up since then.

You say I can't speculate above, but then you speculate here. Which is it?

Far more importantly, do you actually buy for a moment that the Lakers thought about trading Howard for Rondo? That was clearly a Boston-floated rumor.

C'mon now...

  Sorry, I was being facetious. The vast majority of what people "know" on this blog are things that they're guessing about. Like whether that rumor was Boston-floated.

Got it. I bet we can agree it didn't come from the Lakers, which leaves....

Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
« Reply #94 on: February 25, 2013, 04:44:26 PM »

Offline BballTim

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  We also know that he's the kind of player that the Lakers would discuss trading Dwight Howard for, clearly his value has shot up since then.

You say I can't speculate above, but then you speculate here. Which is it?

Far more importantly, do you actually buy for a moment that the Lakers thought about trading Howard for Rondo? That was clearly a Boston-floated rumor.

C'mon now...

  Sorry, I was being facetious. The vast majority of what people "know" on this blog are things that they're guessing about. Like whether that rumor was Boston-floated.

Got it. I bet we can agree it didn't come from the Lakers, which leaves....

  And I'm assuming you know that it didn't come from the Lakers because there were previous Rondo-Gasol rumors and Kobe's talked about wanting Rondo on his team before, right?

Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
« Reply #95 on: February 25, 2013, 05:08:09 PM »

Offline ssspence

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  We also know that he's the kind of player that the Lakers would discuss trading Dwight Howard for, clearly his value has shot up since then.

You say I can't speculate above, but then you speculate here. Which is it?

Far more importantly, do you actually buy for a moment that the Lakers thought about trading Howard for Rondo? That was clearly a Boston-floated rumor.

C'mon now...

  Sorry, I was being facetious. The vast majority of what people "know" on this blog are things that they're guessing about. Like whether that rumor was Boston-floated.

Got it. I bet we can agree it didn't come from the Lakers, which leaves....

  And I'm assuming you know that it didn't come from the Lakers because there were previous Rondo-Gasol rumors and Kobe's talked about wanting Rondo on his team before, right?

Well let's see if we can agree on the below without facetiousness.

Rule of thumb: NBA trade rumors are leaked by the team (or player, if they want out) with the most to gain. That applies to Rondo for Gasol (Lakers) just like it does to Rondo for Howard (Celtics). It typically has very little to do with the actual rumor itself, but rather with boosting the market for the player of lesser value, or, Gasol and Rondo respectively in these two instances.

In the case of Rondo, Kobe waxing poetic about Rondo, cobined with the perceived discontent between Kobe and Howard, gave the Cs a perfect excuse to float such talk right before the trade deadline. It probably coincides with some light discussion between the Cs and another team about Rondo -- say, the Kings. Worst case, Petrie gets anxious, calls up and increases his offer to Ainge as a reaction. If he doesn't, Ainge can always go back to Rondo's agent a couple of days later and say: "we are not trade Rajon right now"... vote of confidence for his recovering PG.

Seem fair?


 

Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
« Reply #96 on: February 25, 2013, 05:13:24 PM »

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It's also completely untrue that he requires a really specific style of team and type of teammates in order for him to be successful".

While I don't think Rondo needs a specific style, I do think he does better in detail-oriented systems.  I actually don't think he would be that happy in a running offense unless the offense flows from a complex defense (one more principled than "stay in front of your man") that aggressively seeks to cause turnovers to initiate the transition game.
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Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
« Reply #97 on: February 25, 2013, 05:15:17 PM »

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It's also completely untrue that he requires a really specific style of team and type of teammates in order for him to be successful".

While I don't think Rondo needs a specific style, I do think he does better in detail-oriented systems.  I actually don't think he would be that happy in a running offense unless the offense flows from a complex defense (one more principled than "stay in front of your man") that aggressively seeks to cause turnovers to initiate the transition game.
Rondo is horrid in the pick and roll.  An offense built for that, would fail with Rondo running the show. 
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Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
« Reply #98 on: February 25, 2013, 05:19:33 PM »

Offline BballTim

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  We also know that he's the kind of player that the Lakers would discuss trading Dwight Howard for, clearly his value has shot up since then.

You say I can't speculate above, but then you speculate here. Which is it?

Far more importantly, do you actually buy for a moment that the Lakers thought about trading Howard for Rondo? That was clearly a Boston-floated rumor.

C'mon now...

  Sorry, I was being facetious. The vast majority of what people "know" on this blog are things that they're guessing about. Like whether that rumor was Boston-floated.

Got it. I bet we can agree it didn't come from the Lakers, which leaves....

  And I'm assuming you know that it didn't come from the Lakers because there were previous Rondo-Gasol rumors and Kobe's talked about wanting Rondo on his team before, right?

Well let's see if we can agree on the below without facetiousness.

Rule of thumb: NBA trade rumors are leaked by the team (or player, if they want out) with the most to gain. That applies to Rondo for Gasol (Lakers) just like it does to Rondo for Howard (Celtics). It typically has very little to do with the actual rumor itself, but rather with boosting the market for the player of lesser value, or, Gasol and Rondo respectively in these two instances.

In the case of Rondo, Kobe waxing poetic about Rondo, cobined with the perceived discontent between Kobe and Howard, gave the Cs a perfect excuse to float such talk right before the trade deadline. It probably coincides with some light discussion between the Cs and another team about Rondo -- say, the Kings. Worst case, Petrie gets anxious, calls up and increases his offer to Ainge as a reaction. If he doesn't, Ainge can always go back to Rondo's agent a couple of days later and say: "we are not trade Rajon right now"... vote of confidence for his recovering PG.

Seem fair?


 

  Rule of thumb, trade rumors aren't always leaked by either team, many are based on speculation of likely  trading partners and some are made up out of whole cloth. Your scenario is a possible one, it's also possible that the Lakers felt that Dwight a) wasn't healthy and b) might leave at the end of the year and were looking for what they could trade him for that would help them win in Kobe's window and give them a good player going forward. Rondo fits both bills.

  If we're being serious, there must have plenty of trades that you've seen where you didn't see the reasoning for one of the teams. I'm sure at least some of them panned out differently than you expected. This could simply be another one of those times.

Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
« Reply #99 on: February 25, 2013, 05:22:20 PM »

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It's also completely untrue that he requires a really specific style of team and type of teammates in order for him to be successful".

While I don't think Rondo needs a specific style, I do think he does better in detail-oriented systems.  I actually don't think he would be that happy in a running offense unless the offense flows from a complex defense (one more principled than "stay in front of your man") that aggressively seeks to cause turnovers to initiate the transition game.

  Not sure exactly what you mean by a detail-oriented system, or why you'd think his happiness in a running offense is dependent on what type of defense his team plays.

Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
« Reply #100 on: February 25, 2013, 05:28:45 PM »

Offline BballTim

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It's also completely untrue that he requires a really specific style of team and type of teammates in order for him to be successful".

While I don't think Rondo needs a specific style, I do think he does better in detail-oriented systems.  I actually don't think he would be that happy in a running offense unless the offense flows from a complex defense (one more principled than "stay in front of your man") that aggressively seeks to cause turnovers to initiate the transition game.
Rondo is horrid in the pick and roll.  An offense built for that, would fail with Rondo running the show.

  According to synergy sports Rondo's scoring in pick and rolls as the ballhandler is worse than CP and Parker, better than Westbrook or Curry, the same as Nash. Those were the only players I checked. But overall his numbers looked pretty good.

  Update: Rondo's scoring in pick and roll ballhandler plays from synergy sports is also worse than Lillard, better than Irving, Conley, Jennings, Holiday and Deron.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2013, 06:45:26 PM by BballTim »

Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
« Reply #101 on: February 25, 2013, 07:28:47 PM »

Offline Rtpas11

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Noh Gets: Rondo, Bass

Bos Gets: Anderson, Lopez, Pick

Or

Rondo for DWIGHT str8 up

or

Rondo for Nik Vuc, Harkless & Pick
"I'm tired of being the everything that gets nothing"

Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
« Reply #102 on: February 25, 2013, 07:48:13 PM »

Offline LooseCannon

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It's also completely untrue that he requires a really specific style of team and type of teammates in order for him to be successful".

While I don't think Rondo needs a specific style, I do think he does better in detail-oriented systems.  I actually don't think he would be that happy in a running offense unless the offense flows from a complex defense (one more principled than "stay in front of your man") that aggressively seeks to cause turnovers to initiate the transition game.

  Not sure exactly what you mean by a detail-oriented system, or why you'd think his happiness in a running offense is dependent on what type of defense his team plays.

By detail-oriented, I mean a system with a playbook that requires players to know their roles and execute well, the opposite of a system with a lot of free-lancing and unstructured individual creativity.  I think Rondo has the sort of mind that would find a Mike D'Antoni style transition offense to be abhorrent, even if he had a jump shot that made him seem like a better fit.  A team that runs more than average because its defense forces turnovers would fit Rondo better.  I sometimes think he gambles for steals because he thinks that is the best way to initiate points in transition.
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Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
« Reply #103 on: February 25, 2013, 08:29:53 PM »

Offline BballTim

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It's also completely untrue that he requires a really specific style of team and type of teammates in order for him to be successful".

While I don't think Rondo needs a specific style, I do think he does better in detail-oriented systems.  I actually don't think he would be that happy in a running offense unless the offense flows from a complex defense (one more principled than "stay in front of your man") that aggressively seeks to cause turnovers to initiate the transition game.

  Not sure exactly what you mean by a detail-oriented system, or why you'd think his happiness in a running offense is dependent on what type of defense his team plays.

By detail-oriented, I mean a system with a playbook that requires players to know their roles and execute well, the opposite of a system with a lot of free-lancing and unstructured individual creativity.  I think Rondo has the sort of mind that would find a Mike D'Antoni style transition offense to be abhorrent, even if he had a jump shot that made him seem like a better fit.  A team that runs more than average because its defense forces turnovers would fit Rondo better.  I sometimes think he gambles for steals because he thinks that is the best way to initiate points in transition.

  The opposite is true. Rondo likes to run an unstructured, creative offense, Doc sometimes needs him to get back to running set plays. There was a lot of discussion about it in the playoffs last year, Doc calls it Rondo's "random mode".


Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
« Reply #104 on: February 25, 2013, 08:51:15 PM »

Offline Celtics18

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It's also completely untrue that he requires a really specific style of team and type of teammates in order for him to be successful".

While I don't think Rondo needs a specific style, I do think he does better in detail-oriented systems.  I actually don't think he would be that happy in a running offense unless the offense flows from a complex defense (one more principled than "stay in front of your man") that aggressively seeks to cause turnovers to initiate the transition game.

  Not sure exactly what you mean by a detail-oriented system, or why you'd think his happiness in a running offense is dependent on what type of defense his team plays.

By detail-oriented, I mean a system with a playbook that requires players to know their roles and execute well, the opposite of a system with a lot of free-lancing and unstructured individual creativity.  I think Rondo has the sort of mind that would find a Mike D'Antoni style transition offense to be abhorrent, even if he had a jump shot that made him seem like a better fit.  A team that runs more than average because its defense forces turnovers would fit Rondo better.  I sometimes think he gambles for steals because he thinks that is the best way to initiate points in transition.

I agree with your last point about Rondo being best suited to lead a team that likes to run off creating turnovers.  That's the kind of team that I'm hoping to see Danny and Doc build for the future.   With Bradley and Green alongside Rondo, I think we've got a decent core to continue to build a defensively aggressive, high turnover producing, up-tempo team. 

 

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