Author Topic: NBA to refs: whistle Lakers into playoffs  (Read 5338 times)

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Re: NBA to refs: whistle Lakers into playoffs
« Reply #30 on: February 24, 2013, 07:34:41 PM »

Offline CelticConcourse

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Re: NBA to refs: whistle Lakers into playoffs
« Reply #31 on: February 25, 2013, 07:46:33 AM »

Offline Chelm

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In Dallas. 
FTA:   LA 31,  Dal 19

And an unwarranted T against Dirk down the stretch for complaining after an obvious blown call. 


I think the league has just as much urgency as LA does right now.   The storyline (Buss, Howard, underdog etc) is gold, without them ratings drop exponentially. 
So, I'm going to keep track of these last games.   Interested to see if they out-FT everyone they play and coninue to get benefit of calls like we've now seen against Batum & Dirk in successive games.
If any team's opponent has Howard on its active roster and DOESN'T lose the FT disparity, that team definitely didn't play properly.

Re: NBA to refs: whistle Lakers into playoffs
« Reply #32 on: February 25, 2013, 09:27:20 AM »

Offline Fred Roberts

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Yesterday's Lakers game featured some classic phantom whistles for the purple & gold. Yes, it made the difference in the game. If you didn't watch, then you might question it, but I watched and it was plain as day.

1. Metta fouls Dirk on a jumper (clear foul but no call)
2. Dirk gets technical foul for reacting to no call (weak at best tech)
3. Mayo gets called for foul defending Kobe on a fast break (didn't look like he touched him - good Defense)
4. Mayo gets technical foul for reacting (weaker than that weak tech on Dirk)
5. Dirk loses ball out of bounds on a subsequent possession after reach in foul on Metta (no call - ball goes the to Lakers)

My guess is this amounts to a 6-8 pt swing. In a tight game, that's all the cushion it takes.

I'm not tying this to any big conspiracy, but I've seen it before and I'll see it again.

Re: NBA to refs: whistle Lakers into playoffs
« Reply #33 on: February 26, 2013, 03:11:11 AM »

Offline timobusa

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Yesterday's Lakers game featured some classic phantom whistles for the purple & gold. Yes, it made the difference in the game. If you didn't watch, then you might question it, but I watched and it was plain as day.

1. Metta fouls Dirk on a jumper (clear foul but no call)
2. Dirk gets technical foul for reacting to no call (weak at best tech)
3. Mayo gets called for foul defending Kobe on a fast break (didn't look like he touched him - good Defense)
4. Mayo gets technical foul for reacting (weaker than that weak tech on Dirk)
5. Dirk loses ball out of bounds on a subsequent possession after reach in foul on Metta (no call - ball goes the to Lakers)

My guess is this amounts to a 6-8 pt swing. In a tight game, that's all the cushion it takes.

I'm not tying this to any big conspiracy, but I've seen it before and I'll see it again.

I hear that.
There are definitely biases towards Big Market teams, and teams with history.
The Lakers is one of the teams that had the most benefit from this.

The NBA will try its best to get the Lakers to the playoffs because that means they will make more money and it will make for a good story.

It doesn't mean that they will win it all. But it will still make the league a lot of money selling Laker playoff tickets.

The NBA clearly favors teams.
Again, If ya'll don't see that. You're blind.

Re: NBA to refs: whistle Lakers into playoffs
« Reply #34 on: February 26, 2013, 03:29:58 AM »

Offline timobusa

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Anyone who thinks the refs do not influence games don't know the rules.   They blow calls all the time and influence games.

NBA where refs matter, a lot.

Yep.
Agreed.

The sterNBA wants a good story.
Whats a better plot than, Buss death, Howard in LA, Kobe chasing MJ, Elite franchise on the verge of not making the playoffs..

There will be a ton of blown calls in the Lakers favor.

If ya'll don't believe it, you're blind.

So are you saying that the Lakers are now going to win the championship?  Because a first round exit would make for a pretty weak and pointless conspiracy. 

Odd that the "rigged" and "fixed" NBA has two Western Conference perennial powers in San Antonio and Oklahoma City, two of its smallest markets, huh?

Why has the NBA sent San Antonio to the Finals 4 times since 1999?  The Lakers draw much better ratings than the Spurs.

For all of the conspiracy theorists, can you explain what the actual conspiracy is?  When did it start?  Who is involved?  Why is it so ineffective?  Why did the NBA decide to have the Lakers lose so quickly in each of the last two years? Is Boston involved?  Why do you watch "fixed" games? So many questions, so little answers.

Calling someone else blind doesn't explain the conspiracy.  Please explain.

Response to your reply.

1. I never said that the Lakers would win the Championship, I said that the league will try to at least get them to the playoffs, because that will make them money, and make for a good story. Just because you don't "win it all" does not mean that its a pathetic or failed conspiracy. I mean if you really watch basketball, not just the Celtics, you will know that the NBA favors teams, all the time. Even the schedules are proof of this. Then you mix that up with tons of questionable officiating. If you don't see that, you're blind.

2. OKC and SAN ANTONIO. Yes you are right, they are smaller market teams, but, They are actually good teams. San Antonio is a great organization and has one of the best coaches in the league. They have an amazing scouting team as well. They were in the finals multiple times because they are a really good team. It doesn't matter if the Lakers had better ratings, San Antonio was simply dominant in the years that they've been in the Finals.

OKC is a great new team as well, yes, smaller market, but they have the best turn out for every game. They are always sold out (that means the NBA gets money). They have the 2nd best player in the NBA, and they got to the finals fair and square. And what a better way to finish the season off with the 2 best players in the NBA going Head to Head for the championship. Smaller Market teams specially in the West are not weak like they are in the East.

The Lakers lost so "quickly" because the teams that they've faced were the better team. Dallas was on fire, plus the Miami Heat vs Dallas Mavericks rivalry was a good angle.
Dirk finally getting his was a great for the NBA.

Again, If you don't see the biases towards certain teams, the purposely blown calls, questionable officiating, even biased announcers, you are blind.

I still watch because, I love basketball and I'm a huge fan of the Celtics. Period.

Re: NBA to refs: whistle Lakers into playoffs
« Reply #35 on: February 26, 2013, 12:17:22 PM »

Offline Chelm

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Anyone who thinks the refs do not influence games don't know the rules.   They blow calls all the time and influence games.

NBA where refs matter, a lot.

Yep.
Agreed.

The sterNBA wants a good story.
Whats a better plot than, Buss death, Howard in LA, Kobe chasing MJ, Elite franchise on the verge of not making the playoffs..

There will be a ton of blown calls in the Lakers favor.

If ya'll don't believe it, you're blind.

So are you saying that the Lakers are now going to win the championship?  Because a first round exit would make for a pretty weak and pointless conspiracy. 

Odd that the "rigged" and "fixed" NBA has two Western Conference perennial powers in San Antonio and Oklahoma City, two of its smallest markets, huh?

Why has the NBA sent San Antonio to the Finals 4 times since 1999?  The Lakers draw much better ratings than the Spurs.

For all of the conspiracy theorists, can you explain what the actual conspiracy is?  When did it start?  Who is involved?  Why is it so ineffective?  Why did the NBA decide to have the Lakers lose so quickly in each of the last two years? Is Boston involved?  Why do you watch "fixed" games? So many questions, so little answers.

Calling someone else blind doesn't explain the conspiracy.  Please explain.

Response to your reply.

1. I never said that the Lakers would win the Championship, I said that the league will try to at least get them to the playoffs, because that will make them money, and make for a good story. Just because you don't "win it all" does not mean that its a pathetic or failed conspiracy. I mean if you really watch basketball, not just the Celtics, you will know that the NBA favors teams, all the time. Even the schedules are proof of this. Then you mix that up with tons of questionable officiating. If you don't see that, you're blind.

2. OKC and SAN ANTONIO. Yes you are right, they are smaller market teams, but, They are actually good teams. San Antonio is a great organization and has one of the best coaches in the league. They have an amazing scouting team as well. They were in the finals multiple times because they are a really good team. It doesn't matter if the Lakers had better ratings, San Antonio was simply dominant in the years that they've been in the Finals.

OKC is a great new team as well, yes, smaller market, but they have the best turn out for every game. They are always sold out (that means the NBA gets money). They have the 2nd best player in the NBA, and they got to the finals fair and square. And what a better way to finish the season off with the 2 best players in the NBA going Head to Head for the championship. Smaller Market teams specially in the West are not weak like they are in the East.

The Lakers lost so "quickly" because the teams that they've faced were the better team. Dallas was on fire, plus the Miami Heat vs Dallas Mavericks rivalry was a good angle.
Dirk finally getting his was a great for the NBA.

Again, If you don't see the biases towards certain teams, the purposely blown calls, questionable officiating, even biased announcers, you are blind.

I still watch because, I love basketball and I'm a huge fan of the Celtics. Period.
If we take your assumption to be correct, does this also mean that the Cs get the same benefits from the refs?

Re: NBA to refs: whistle Lakers into playoffs
« Reply #36 on: February 26, 2013, 01:26:09 PM »

Offline edwardjkasche

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Conspiracy nonsense or not, I believe it.  Why?  Because it's logical and the NBA is the NBA.

It is evident that the NBA would want the Fakers in the playoffs, especially considering Kobe's advanced (by playing years) age.  Let's not also forget that Dwight Howard and Steve Nash are on the team, and stars sell the NBA product.  Oh, and the Fakers are a top-3 NBA market that brings in millions of dollars with each playoff run.

Look, NBA basketball is the easiest American sport for the officials to affect the outcome of an individual game, and therefore a playoff series/seeding.  It's almost on-par with International Soccer.

Every pick could be called an offensive foul.  Defensive or offensive three seconds could be called almost every time down the court.  Almost every contested drive to the basket could be called a blocking foul or charge (you decide).  Oh, and let's not forget about traveling and palming the ball.  Come on.  A few ticky-tack calls here or there can easily affect the outcome, especially if they're made at an opportune time.

But, not every bad call will come across "clear as day."  More so, the bad calls occur in the shadows and are spread throughout the game.

Refs aren't stupid.  [Typing that made me throw up a little.]  But, seriously, they're not stupid.  Refs know that too many games with free throw discrepancies in the 3-to-1 range will draw ire from fans and (possibly) the media. 

Refs subtlety go about affecting games by getting certain players in foul trouble (so they have to sit at irregular times) and certain teams in foul trouble (so more free throws are shot - double bonus, anyone).  But, more often than not, the refs do everything they can to level the field goals shot once the game is already in hand.  That usually makes everything look kosher, unless, of course, you watched the game and saw how the refs went about their job.

The Fakers were already the beneficiary of one of the worst con jobs in the NBA during the past fifteen years. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_NBA_Playoffs#.281.29_Sacramento_Kings_vs._.283.29_Los_Angeles_Lakers



My guess is you won't be seeing too many games with huge free throw discrepancies, but you'll see plenty of games where the refs lean strongly toward the Fakers, and the Fakers are given the benefit of the doubt too often.  It's easy with guys like Howard and Bryant, because Howard is so big you could call a foul on his opponent every time and Bryant is so revered that if his shot doesn't fall it must have been a foul.

Now, in defense of the non-conspiracy theorists, the Fakers will still have to score some points and play some defense, but the refs will make it that much easier for them to make games... and that's all that matters.

Oh, the Heat will undoubtedly get to the NBA Finals this season.  It's been determined by the league.

Re: NBA to refs: whistle Lakers into playoffs
« Reply #37 on: February 26, 2013, 01:59:57 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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#1 - The Lakers are going to make the playoffs, because they have Dwight Howard, Kobe Bryant, Pau Gasol and Steve Nash.

#2 - The Lakers are going to be a title contender once the playoffs start... because they have Dwight Howard, Kobe Bryant, Pau Gasol and Steve Nash.

No use crying about it.  It's happening.  You don't keep down the best big man alive and a top 3 shooting guard.  Elite bigs and elite scoring win championships in this league.

Re: NBA to refs: whistle Lakers into playoffs
« Reply #38 on: February 26, 2013, 02:01:19 PM »

Offline RyNye

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I hear that.
There are definitely biases towards Big Market teams, and teams with history.
The Lakers is one of the teams that had the most benefit from this.

Look at the teams in the league right now that are leading in free throw attempts per game.

1) Lakers
2) OKC
3) Denver
4) Charlotte
5) Minnesota
6) Houston
7) Utah
8) Brooklyn
9) Clippers
10) Detroit

Yes, the Lakers get a lot of free throws. But three of the top 10 teams in free throw attempts are in the lottery, with only OKC and the Clippers being real contenders.

Look at the worst free throw teams now ...

30) Orlando
29) Philadelphia
28) New Orleans
27) Atlanta
26) Phoenix
25) Washington
24) Memphis
23) Portland
22) Boston
21) New York
20) San Antonio

The team with the league's best record is one of the worst teams at getting to the line. Two of the East's top teams in Atlanta and New York are also low on the list, and Memphis is another strong play-off threat there.

There is no clear relationship between getting to the line and winning games. This trend extends across the past several seasons. Yes, there are teams that get to the line a lot and win, and there are those that don't. But just because a team gets a lot of foul calls does not automatically let them win games, which makes any perceived conspiracy on your part miraculously ineffective.

Now, look over the last several seasons. I am going back to 2003-2004, because that is as far back as I can get the numbers through a casual search, and I don't feel like doing anything more involved.

Since the 2003-2004 season, the Lakers have attempted approximately 20,226 free throws (I say approximately because I back-tracked their per game averages for the number of games they played, and rounded, so I might be off by a few).

That is 4th in the league during that span. Behind Denver, Utah, and Orlando. Rounding out the top 10 since 2003-4:

Clippers
Sonics/OKC
Sacramento
Miami
Cleveland
Indiana

It is worth noting that the Clippers, OKC, and Indiana, although strong teams now, were not perennially strong in the past decade.

The worst free throw teams since 2003? Well, San Antonio is 27th, and how have they been doing? Phoenix is 26th, and though they suck now, for good chunk of this past decade they were a serious contender (at times favorite).

The Bobcats have taken more free throws in the past decade than the Mavericks, who were a title favorite in Dirk's prime, and won a title recently (and Dirk is arguably the greatest free throw shooter in league history).

By the way, the league average for free throws in the past decade is 19,206, and the worst mark (belonging to New Orleans) is 17,338.

So the total spread between best and worst over the past decade is 5083 free throws, which works out to be 6 free throw attempts per game. The difference between the Lakers over this span and the league average works out to be 1.05 free throw attempt per game.

So, over the past decade, the Lakers have only managed to get about one extra free throw attempt for every game over the league average for this span.

Quite a conspiracy you got going on.  ::)

The numbers don't lie, baby, so get off the smug high horse and stop calling us all blind for not believing in easily falsifiable accusations of rigging.

Re: NBA to refs: whistle Lakers into playoffs
« Reply #39 on: February 26, 2013, 02:15:02 PM »

Online foulweatherfan

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I hear that.
There are definitely biases towards Big Market teams, and teams with history.
The Lakers is one of the teams that had the most benefit from this.

SNIPPED FOR SPACE...

So, over the past decade, the Lakers have only managed to get about one extra free throw attempt for every game over the league average for this span.

Quite a conspiracy you got going on.  ::)

The numbers don't lie, baby, so get off the smug high horse and stop calling us all blind for not believing in easily falsifiable accusations of rigging.

No but you see you have to watch the games, or some YouTube clips of snippets of the games, and notice all the calls that favor the teams the league likes, and ignore all the calls that favor the other teams, and interpret anything ambiguous as clearly indicating foul play.  Or just read box scores and decide any free throw discrepancy = deliberate rigging of the game, unless it goes the wrong way, in which case you'll know the refs are just cheating more sneakily.  Or just talk to someone who feels the same way as you.  Then and only then will you see the objective truth. 

It's like how at the end of the last decade savvy fans knew the league was always fixing things for a Kobe-LeBron finals.  Some naysayers tried to pooh-pooh it, but just look at how things turned out!  You can't just rely on flimsy things like "stats" and "facts" to unravel things like this.  Rigging is much too subtle to show up there, and so blatantly obvious that anyone who can't see it is delusional.

Re: NBA to refs: whistle Lakers into playoffs
« Reply #40 on: February 26, 2013, 02:21:09 PM »

Offline RyNye

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And a TP for you, sir; I cannot stop laughing.

Re: NBA to refs: whistle Lakers into playoffs
« Reply #41 on: February 26, 2013, 02:27:01 PM »

Offline timobusa

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Anyone who thinks the refs do not influence games don't know the rules.   They blow calls all the time and influence games.

NBA where refs matter, a lot.

Yep.
Agreed.

The sterNBA wants a good story.
Whats a better plot than, Buss death, Howard in LA, Kobe chasing MJ, Elite franchise on the verge of not making the playoffs..

There will be a ton of blown calls in the Lakers favor.

If ya'll don't believe it, you're blind.

So are you saying that the Lakers are now going to win the championship?  Because a first round exit would make for a pretty weak and pointless conspiracy. 

Odd that the "rigged" and "fixed" NBA has two Western Conference perennial powers in San Antonio and Oklahoma City, two of its smallest markets, huh?

Why has the NBA sent San Antonio to the Finals 4 times since 1999?  The Lakers draw much better ratings than the Spurs.

For all of the conspiracy theorists, can you explain what the actual conspiracy is?  When did it start?  Who is involved?  Why is it so ineffective?  Why did the NBA decide to have the Lakers lose so quickly in each of the last two years? Is Boston involved?  Why do you watch "fixed" games? So many questions, so little answers.

Calling someone else blind doesn't explain the conspiracy.  Please explain.

Response to your reply.

1. I never said that the Lakers would win the Championship, I said that the league will try to at least get them to the playoffs, because that will make them money, and make for a good story. Just because you don't "win it all" does not mean that its a pathetic or failed conspiracy. I mean if you really watch basketball, not just the Celtics, you will know that the NBA favors teams, all the time. Even the schedules are proof of this. Then you mix that up with tons of questionable officiating. If you don't see that, you're blind.

2. OKC and SAN ANTONIO. Yes you are right, they are smaller market teams, but, They are actually good teams. San Antonio is a great organization and has one of the best coaches in the league. They have an amazing scouting team as well. They were in the finals multiple times because they are a really good team. It doesn't matter if the Lakers had better ratings, San Antonio was simply dominant in the years that they've been in the Finals.

OKC is a great new team as well, yes, smaller market, but they have the best turn out for every game. They are always sold out (that means the NBA gets money). They have the 2nd best player in the NBA, and they got to the finals fair and square. And what a better way to finish the season off with the 2 best players in the NBA going Head to Head for the championship. Smaller Market teams specially in the West are not weak like they are in the East.

The Lakers lost so "quickly" because the teams that they've faced were the better team. Dallas was on fire, plus the Miami Heat vs Dallas Mavericks rivalry was a good angle.
Dirk finally getting his was a great for the NBA.

Again, If you don't see the biases towards certain teams, the purposely blown calls, questionable officiating, even biased announcers, you are blind.

I still watch because, I love basketball and I'm a huge fan of the Celtics. Period.
If we take your assumption to be correct, does this also mean that the Cs get the same benefits from the refs?

You could say that. But, the 07-08 Celtics team was a beast of a team. I would say they did not really need much help from the League.

Plus what a great story from being the worst in the league to being champions the next year, KG Pierce and Allen playing together coming from different losing situations getting a championship.

PS. Watch more NBA games, try and catch the Lakers, Heat, Clippers, OKC games you'll see what I mean.

Re: NBA to refs: whistle Lakers into playoffs
« Reply #42 on: February 26, 2013, 03:18:09 PM »

Offline Q_FBE

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A game to watch for "conspiracy potential" would be this upcoming Wednesdays game with Golden State in New York. Tonight, New York rests while Golden State plays in Indiana. Just NBA scheduling for you. Golden State has the onus of hanging onto their playoff spot since they do not get there very often.
The NBA is a very stupid, corrupt, and unethical league

Re: NBA to refs: whistle Lakers into playoffs
« Reply #43 on: February 26, 2013, 04:19:29 PM »

Offline D Dub

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Stats can be argued either way.  Revenue figures are more concrete, and the NBA simply makes more money when the Lebron's and Kobe's are the storyline. 

Another example.  Go back and watch games 1 and 2 of the ECF from last year.  The NBA needed Bron to get back to the Finals in the worst way.  Those 2 games had it all: early foul trouble for Pierce, bad techs against the C's, and the overtime face-slap-no-call with Rondo.  FWIW, I felt games 3-7 were called pretty fair.  That said, had we taken both those first two or split, very likely we win --leaving the new face of the league, Bron, mired in failure.   

Fast forward to this year, the Lakers are now dominating all storylines.  You don't think the NBA stands to gain a major revenue boost if they make the playoffs?

Not saying this stuff is pre-determined, but a little momentum swing here or there can go a long way. 

Re: NBA to refs: whistle Lakers into playoffs
« Reply #44 on: February 26, 2013, 04:44:32 PM »

Offline timobusa

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Stats can be argued either way.  Revenue figures are more concrete, and the NBA simply makes more money when the Lebron's and Kobe's are the storyline. 

Another example.  Go back and watch games 1 and 2 of the ECF from last year.  The NBA needed Bron to get back to the Finals in the worst way.  Those 2 games had it all: early foul trouble for Pierce, bad techs against the C's, and the overtime face-slap-no-call with Rondo.  FWIW, I felt games 3-7 were called pretty fair.  That said, had we taken both those first two or split, very likely we win --leaving the new face of the league, Bron, mired in failure.   

Fast forward to this year, the Lakers are now dominating all storylines.  You don't think the NBA stands to gain a major revenue boost if they make the playoffs?

Not saying this stuff is pre-determined, but a little momentum swing here or there can go a long way.

Yessir. Agreed.
That was ours, we got robbed of the chance to get #18

 

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